Leominster Police: Driver in confrontation found with gun, large amount of ammo

[jcr]

We don't know that he "let" them search it. My guess is that even if he refused, the officers would've felt they had probable cause.

In this type case, rather than probable cause, isn't it that they have to be able to "articulate a reasonable suspicion"? Typically, the police just report that they "smelled something" that they suspected there was drugs in the car. When nothing is found and no charges filed, the 4th Amendment violation is usually just ignored by the victim. If they "smelled something" but found a gun but no drugs, the search might get tossed, but don't count on it (and it'll cost, anyway).

For the report they were going on (road rage, or erratic driving) there is nothing in the truck for which they could be suspicious of.

We all agree that he should not have consented to a search. This is another reminder that it is good to lock your vehicle even when hopping out to quickly get a sandwich.

Worthy of a separate thread (though it's been discussed) is how to safely get by the trap question, "Do you have any drugs or weapons in the car?" With a legal gun in your car, almost any answer you give that implies "none of your business" will raise suspicion.

--jcr

 

[rwl1955]

I was riding My ST1100 on 04 on RT.2 when some idiot in a Ford Escort decided to enter my lane while my bike occupied it. after I blew my horn and he swerved back in his lane I pulled up beside him and pointed to my eyes thru my full face helmet. he went berserk and followed me down RT.2 trying to run me into the guard rail, pulling in front of me and giving me a brake job while transporting a young girl in the back seat. I finally pulled off at RT.27 and headed to the Acton PD. I gave them the plate and description and told them what happened. The desk cop told me it wasn`t their problem and instructed ne to the State Police barracks in Concord. I headed there and the statie told me it was my word against his and my only recourse was to file a complaint w/the RMV. WTF? This maniac was still on RT.2. I filed the complaint and never heard a thing. The a$$hole even tried to throw a cup of coffee in my face. Never again will I trust the cops.

 

[garandman]

There's nothing they can do without witnesses. That's why I have a helmet cam. When you are on a bike the tonnage rule is in effect.

 

[Kicker96FS]

Stab his arm with a knife next time.

 

[drgrant]

If you go by fatalities, rural states are worse, while total accidents involve more populous states and metro areas. But Boston isn't even in the bottom 20. Scary that!

That's because in Boston the traffic typically isn't even moving anywhere near fast enough to cause a fatality.

-Mike

 

[Terminator03]

Wow, I'm surprised he got off so easily! It had to have been the illegal search that saved his butt.

 

[rwl1955]

There's nothing they can do without witnesses. That's why I have a helmet cam. When you are on a bike the tonnage rule is in effect.

Hmmm. Never thought of a helmet cam. What do they cost?

 

[garandman]

Hmmm. Never thought of a helmet cam. What do they cost?

I have a Contour HD which is roughly $250. The GoPro is also popular, about $150.

You look like an Alien, but it does tend to moderate behavior. Just don't stare at your speedo!

 

[jar]

Brian Cordeiro, 31, of Fitzwilliam, N.H., charged with carrying a dangerous weapon and reckless operation of a vehicle. The charges were continued without a finding for 1 year. As conditions of probation, he was ordered to have no contact with the victim, not to possess, carry, own, or sell weapons, and to pay $65 a month probation fee or to complete 8 hours of community service a month. Charges of carrying a firearm without a license, four counts of possession of a large capacity firearm, and six counts of possession of a firearm without a firearm ID card were dismissed upon payment of $1,000 fine.

So they made him give all of his guns away?

 

[securityboy]

Wow, I'm surprised he got off so easily! It had to have been the illegal search that saved his butt.

Go spend some time in court, pretty soon you will realize that just about anything short of 1st degree murder gets CWOF'd for most 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, etc, etc time offenders...just the way it is...

 

[rwl1955]

I have a Contour HD which is roughly $250. The GoPro is also popular, about $150.

You look like an Alien, but it does tend to moderate behavior. Just don't stare at your speedo!

*******
Maybe looking like an alien will keep the ma**h*** drivers at bay. BRILLIANT!

 

[GSG]

Not really surprised he actually got hit harder than most.....because he was a decent member of society and had a job.

What I found ironic is that they stuck him with $50,000 bail just to throw him the deal of a lifetime in a few months. He must have been really "dangerousness."

So they made him give all of his guns away?

No, he just signed forms for probation saying he would. I doubt he even read them when his attorney came to him with that news.

Go spend some time in court, pretty soon you will realize that just about anything short of 1st degree murder gets CWOF'd for most 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, etc, etc time offenders...just the way it is...

The structure of this guy's deal is outside the norm though. He was also charged incorrectly.

 

[Friday]

How can they enforce him not to own any guns in NH?

 

[securityboy]

How can they enforce him not to own any guns in NH?

"They" don't have to, he already did it for them...Because it is part of the plea he agreed to as part of the CWOF. He agreed to the terms, if he violates them (regardless of which state he is in) he violates his "probation" (or whatever else the CWOF agreement stipulated)...

 

[RichM]

I was riding My ST1100 on 04 on RT.2 when some idiot in a Ford Escort decided to enter my lane while my bike occupied it. after I blew my horn and he swerved back in his lane I pulled up beside him and pointed to my eyes thru my full face helmet. he went berserk and followed me down RT.2 trying to run me into the guard rail, pulling in front of me and giving me a brake job while transporting a young girl in the back seat. I finally pulled off at RT.27 and headed to the Acton PD. I gave them the plate and description and told them what happened. The desk cop told me it wasn`t their problem and instructed ne to the State Police barracks in Concord. I headed there and the statie told me it was my word against his and my only recourse was to file a complaint w/the RMV. WTF? This maniac was still on RT.2. I filed the complaint and never heard a thing. The a$$hole even tried to throw a cup of coffee in my face. Never again will I trust the cops.

You already posted this story once in this thread! Whatssa matta? You think we're gonna have more sympathy the second time around?

 

[GSG]

How can they enforce him not to own any guns in NH?

He'll have to report any contact with LE to his probation officer no doubt. He'd also very likely be considered federally prohibited from obtaining firearms (but not possessing guns he already had) due to being under indictment for felonies.

"They" don't have to, he already did it for them...Because it is part of the plea he agreed to as part of the CWOF. He agreed to the terms, if he violates them (regardless of which state he is in) he violates his "probation" (or whatever else the CWOF agreement stipulated)...

It'd be interesting to see how "weapons" was defined in the terms, since that covers a lot more than guns.

 

[Coyote33]

Speculation ....

All we really know is that a guy is looking at 50 grand to bail his ass out of jail for practicing his constitutional rights.

Textbook court case for the Second Amendment.

 

[nlaren]

There is plenty the police can do without a witness. They make arrests all the time based upon the complaints of victims without witnesses, domestic assault for example. In fact it appears that the stop/arrest sparking this thread was made upon the sole complaint of the victim without a witness.

In MA however, if the police refuse to do their job, you have recourse in some cases. You can go to the District Court in your jurisdiction and file an application for a complaint. You will have to know the name, address and date of birth of the bad guy (that's why I say "in some cases").

 

[garandman]

//
In MA however, if the police refuse to do their job, you have recourse in some cases. You can go to the District Court in your jurisdiction and file an application for a complaint. You will have to know the name, address and date of birth of the bad guy (that's why I say "in some cases").

Would having a license plate and description be sufficient?

 

[drgrant]

Textbook court case for the Second Amendment.

No it's not, terrible plaintiff. You do not want a plaintiff in an RKBA case that has even a nuance of real misconduct. It creates a distraction from the legal issue at hand, and it also allows people to make excuses for the state's misconduct. Part of the reason Heller and MacDonald were so successful is that the plaintiffs were "clean" going in.

-Mike

 

[terraformer]

No it's not, terrible plaintiff. You do not want a plaintiff in an RKBA case that has even a nuance of real misconduct.

In some cases you are not going to be able to get around it, but yes this is correct. You want to pick and chose who as best as possible.

 

[Lank]

I so agree. When I am carrying I make it a point to do everything perfectly. If I was to be pullled over, I would be more nervous of the LEO than he is of me, even though I have the right LTC....

Also, I to drive RT 2 80 miles a day to Boston and back. Some of the worst driving I have ever seen.

 

[garandman]

I so agree. When I am carrying I make it a point to do everything perfectly. If I was to be pullled over, I would be more nervous of the LEO than he is of me, even though I have the right LTC....

Also, I to drive RT 2 80 miles a day to Boston and back. Some of the worst driving I have ever seen.

I reverse commute that to a business in Concord occasionally. God love ya, that commute suuucks.

 

[GSG]

There is plenty the police can do without a witness. They make arrests all the time based upon the complaints of victims without witnesses, domestic assault for example. In fact it appears that the stop/arrest sparking this thread was made upon the sole complaint of the victim without a witness.

A simple assault that occurs outside the presence of LE in Mass. is only arrestable if it's DV (different rules for MSP, but that's another topic). There's also a big difference between stopping a car and arresting someone based on a witness statement.

In MA however, if the police refuse to do their job, you have recourse in some cases. You can go to the District Court in your jurisdiction and file an application for a complaint. You will have to know the name, address and date of birth of the bad guy (that's why I say "in some cases").

"Refusing to do their jobs" makes it sound like laziness or malicious intent. That may happen from time to time, but more likely the offense was something that a cop doesn't want to attach himself to. You can go to court like you said, you will need that info, but they can look it up at the court, including firearms licensing info.

Would having a license plate and description be sufficient?

For criminal charges? I think it would have to be a pretty extreme case for that. Keep in mind that the registered owner(s) may not be the driver or even a passenger.

 

[DoubleDoeHoe]

I am afraid that I don't understand your reply. It seems to me that the State Police were responding to a complaint and upon further investigation determined that the individual was not in compliance with the law. Excuse me, but isn't that what the police are supposed to do?
Mark L.

Unless said individual was a illegal alien and had no drivers license then they would let him go.

 

[securityboy]

Unless said individual was a illegal alien and had no drivers license then they would let him go.

Not disagreeing with you, but don't blame the locals or state for that, ICE just tell us they have no place to hold them, because unless they have a order of deportation against them ICE really doesn't have the time man power to pick up/hold ever illegal... Certainly not a great situation, but its reality...

 

[DoubleDoeHoe]

Not disagreeing with you, but don't blame the locals or state for that, ICE just tell us they have no place to hold them, because unless they have a order of deportation against them ICE really doesn't have the time man power to pick up/hold ever illegal... Certainly not a great situation, but its reality...

Ya I know what the reality is. I am aware of the situation and how the FEDS don't enforce the immigration laws and the states can't deport people themselves. Being understaffed or short on time is no excuse for ICE or anyone else. That is all it is a excuse. Meanwhile they hire all kinds of new agents and inspectors for environmental laws. Paying no attention to a problem in this country. I don't blame the cops at all.

Still doesn't make it right though. Another case of passing the buck. "not my job"

 

[nlaren]

A simple assault that occurs outside the presence of LE in Mass. is only arrestable if it's DV (different rules for MSP, but that's another topic). There's also a big difference between stopping a car and arresting someone based on a witness statement.

I believe the poster was referring to the police taking a complaint, not making an arrest. The police can take a complaint without the need for a second witness (the victim being the first) and then investigate. This could lead to an arrest.

"Refusing to do their jobs" makes it sound like laziness or malicious intent. That may happen from time to time, but more likely the offense was something that a cop doesn't want to attach himself to. You can go to court like you said, you will need that info, but they can look it up at the court, including firearms licensing info.

Refusing to take a complaint, especially in the case provided, is either just plain lazy or malicious; I would bet on the former however. As for the court personnel "looking up" any of the information you need to file a complaint, that's simply false. They don't have access to DMV records and they certainly don't have access to firearms licensing info. They couldn't even find you an address for you unless the perp is already in the system. In fact they will tell you that they couldn't give out that information even if they had it. This is why we need the police to do their jobs because most civilians can't do it, even if they wanted to.

For criminal charges? I think it would have to be a pretty extreme case for that. Keep in mind that the registered owner(s) may not be the driver or even a passenger.

Again, if we are talking about taking a complaint, and we are, the police can take a complaint if the complainant identifies him or herself and gives enough information so as to be "reliable". The police can then investigate in good faith, i.e. pull the perp over for the purposes of investigation. This may lead to an arrest.

 

[shootback]

Large amount of ammo? I have more than that in the car most of the time

 

[MichaelJR]

Police charges are hysterical. "carrying a dangerous weapon" that one has always got me. What if he was transporting a regular weapon, not carrying a dangerous one? How does he get charged with three counts of carrying a firearm if he only had one gun?

Cops....hysterical

"Guilty, with four counts of wickywashing and one count of supercalafragalisticexpealadoshus"