LEO checking what guns you own just beacuse?

EVERYTHING I own is MY business! Why would YOU want to ANYONE to know what you possess???

I consider my firearms to be tools, or pieces of sporting equipment. Would you hide the fact that you own a hammer or a football?

When everyone can see firearms in the way I do, nobody will care who has them, or how many, or how many bullets their magazines hold.
 
So I'm gonna say NO. It is not legal for anyone to take/read/view/peak... at information from the Criminal Justice Information System and use it for "personal" reasons. That would be a violation of said Information System.


Rather than just assert illegality based on common sense, can you cite the relevant statute?
 
A good reason for others not to know your business is so you don't get what you have stolen because some idiot told some scumbag about your collection. Those who don't see a problem should post up their social security number and bank account numbers and passwords for all to see. After all, nothing to hide nothing to fear and all that crap.
 
Rather than just assert illegality based on common sense, can you cite the relevant statute?

According to the DCJIS position statement, they will not release information of what firearms you own or license you have under MGL C. 66, Sec. 10(d) (MA FOI) to any person/entity, but will to a law enforcement agency based on a legitimate criminal justice purpose. If the DCJIS is releasing someone's info just for the hell of it to any LEO, then it is wrong.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...7IDYCg&usg=AFQjCNEAg7fMVw4wh9aYbmEMbIDfFGxUvA
 
Hammers and shovels werent the first things the germans confiscated before they rounded the jews and polish people. they took the firearms as those are the tools that patriots fight back with.

read this and try to resist saying it cant or wont happen here.
https://www.firearmsandliberty.com/sundown.html

I consider my firearms to be tools, or pieces of sporting equipment. Would you hide the fact that you own a hammer or a football?

When everyone can see firearms in the way I do, nobody will care who has them, or how many, or how many bullets their magazines hold.
 
According to the DCJIS position statement, they will not release information of what firearms you own or license you have under MGL C. 66, Sec. 10(d) (MA FOI) to any person/entity, but will to a law enforcement agency based on a legitimate criminal justice purpose. If the DCJIS is releasing someone's info just for the hell of it to any LEO, then it is wrong.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...bmEMbIDfFGxUvA
All true, but none of it answers the question I asked, and you quoted.

I'm looking for the statute someone gaining unauthorized access to the FRB database could be prosecuted under.
 
I consider my firearms to be tools, or pieces of sporting equipment. Would you hide the fact that you own a hammer or a football?

When everyone can see firearms in the way I do, nobody will care who has them, or how many, or how many bullets their magazines hold.


I see my firearms exactly as you see yours. Tools. I don't want anyone to know what tools I have either. Guns or hammers!
 
The following assumes we are talking about some officer accessing the FA-10 database arbitrarily.

Give MGL C. 66 S. 10(d) a read.

Legally that info is only supposed to be accessed by LE and ONLY for LE purposes. Sheer curiosity by some officer doesn't fit that definition.

Can they do it? Sure. If they get caught they can lose their job and pension!

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If you are asking about stopping a car and searching it or searching your house or demanding a list from you, those are other issues.

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And in all cases, it might all depend on an anti-2A judge "re-interpreting" MGL for what they consider "public safety" (e.g. no civilian should own guns).
 
The following assumes we are talking about some officer accessing the FA-10 database arbitrarily.

Give MGL C. 66 S. 10(d) a read.

Legally that info is only supposed to be accessed by LE and ONLY for LE purposes. Sheer curiosity by some officer doesn't fit that definition.

Can they do it? Sure. If they get caught they can lose their job and pension!

-------------

If you are asking about stopping a car and searching it or searching your house or demanding a list from you, those are other issues.

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And in all cases, it might all depend on an anti-2A judge "re-interpreting" MGL for what they consider "public safety" (e.g. no civilian should own guns).


That's what I posted in #24 and #35. Thanks for confirming.
 
I also believe that it would be a crime against property, C. 266, S. 30, if accessed unauthorized in accordance with Rob's question as a public record is considered property.

The term ""property'', as used in the section, shall include money, personal chattels,a bank note, bond, promissory note, bill of exchange or other bill, order or certificate, abook of accounts for or concerning money or goods due or to become due or to bedelivered, a deed or writing containing a conveyance of land, any valuable contract inforce, a receipt, release or defeasance, a writ, process, certificate of title or duplicatecertificate issued under chapter one hundred and eighty-five, a public record, an....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct..._oGQDw&usg=AFQjCNHY_RLhH6Y4E1aF1odoOJJaas1_hg
 
I consider my firearms to be tools, or pieces of sporting equipment. Would you hide the fact that you own a hammer or a football?

When everyone can see firearms in the way I do, nobody will care who has them, or how many, or how many bullets their magazines hold.

What YOU consider your firearms to may be and often is radically different than many other people may consider them to be. Especially those hoplophobes who would deprive you of those tools simply because they are afraid of someone like you (and the rest of us) having such evil things. After all, it's for the children, doncha know? Not to mention those who lust for power over all of us because they know better than us.

And as far everyone seeing something the way you do, that sounds more like a wistful Beatles song that we all just get along with one another. The last time that happened, God stepped in and created Eve and it's never happened since then. It may sound nice but I frankly don't see us ever achieving such single-mindedness.
 
I was in the office of a shift commander (social visit, friend of mine) when the dispatcher brought in a list of the guns the FRB thought I owned at the time because "he thought I would find it interesting".

So, there does not appear to be any need to certify to the FRB that the request is for official purposes - the fact that it is coming from an LE agency appears to be enough.

Similarly, my wife once got a call from a police officer who ran my plate because he wanted to find out where the good matches were at. (and yeah, I know I just ended a sentence with a preposition....so it be).

Gee, I wonder why the officer might think you knew about matches? [rofl] [rofl]

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When an officer runs a query, there is no requirement to list reasons for the query or get permission from a supervisor. That's why they CAN run a listing. It's illegal if not done for a legitimate LE purpose, but in most cases nobody else will know that they did that . . . unless they are stupid enough to show it or talk about it to others.

As for filing a complaint with the PD where this occurred, my personal feeling is that they would stonewall anyone who did so and it would end there. I guess if it were me and I were sure of this, I'd be more inclined to make an appointment to speak with the DA (ADA) directly and file my complaint there.
 
I was in the office of a shift commander (social visit, friend of mine) when the dispatcher brought in a list of the guns the FRB thought I owned at the time because "he thought I would find it interesting".

So, there does not appear to be any need to certify to the FRB that the request is for official purposes - the fact that it is coming from an LE agency appears to be enough.

Similarly, my wife once got a call from a police officer who ran my plate because he wanted to find out where the good matches were at. (and yeah, I know I just ended a sentence with a preposition....so it be).

That's why I gave up my IDPA4EVA vanity plate.
 
According to the DCJIS position statement, they will not release information of what firearms you own or license you have under MGL C. 66, Sec. 10(d) (MA FOI) to any person/entity, but will to a law enforcement agency based on a legitimate criminal justice purpose. If the DCJIS is releasing someone's info just for the hell of it to any LEO, then it is wrong.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...7IDYCg&usg=AFQjCNEAg7fMVw4wh9aYbmEMbIDfFGxUvA

That document talks about not releasing names and addresses, not what firearms you own.
 
You guys do realize that there isnt a whole lot LE can do once he/she accesses the records, right?
Example. Guy gets arrested for domestic A&B on his wife. His LTC is suspended by the licensing authority. The detective working the shift (me) gets tasked with rounding up the arresteds guns, and his Lt. tells him to get "the list" off of CJIS. Hapless detective prints up "the list" showing roughly 20 transactions over the years. Said detective then goes to the arresteds house to retrieve the guns, only to be told by the wife (our A&B victim) that sorry, there are no guns here saucifer.
End of story.
No SW was obtained, no dogs shot, no guns taken.
As far as Rob B goes, he had that officer that ran his info by the short hairs, and didnt pull the trigger, pun intended.
 
I want to keep them a secret because the wife only knows about half of them that I've snuck into the house [rofl]

"Half Eddie,I want half"
 
Maybe it works to your advantage, every time a cop gets behind me like almost on my bumper so he can read my plate really good, then after a couple of minutes he goes away. Perhaps because he now knows that I may have an arsenal on me?

Or maybe it's just the NES sticker.......
 
I just want to know if any one with a badge in the state of Massachusetts can legally look up specifically which and how many firearms I own. Just for their own personal knowledge. Also if they are allowed to go around and disclose that information with anyone they choose.

1. No and BTW they don't need a badge. I have access to that info and I do not carry a badge. However, and this is a big HOWEVER there has to be a legally justifiable reason for doing so. Case support in the during an investigation of a crime, information about a person of interest relative to the commission of a crime, reasonable suspicion regarding the behavior of an individual observed, are all legal reasons that LEOs and others on the CJ system might want to check to see if a person has a LTC or FID and what types of firearms this person might own. Domestic violence complaints and threats against others probably top the list. If post on FaceBook that you are going to harm a public official, LE is going to check to see if you have firearms. Naturally only those firearms that were acquired via the FA10 are the ones that are going to show up.

One thing, and frankly it gets old, is this obsession that many of you have is that LE is obsessed with gun owners and law abiding citizens in general. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is enough real crime out there to keep the coppers busy. The egregious violations of privacy and strictly illegal is finding out the addresses of hot looking women. It happens and if caught, the penalties can be severe.

As a caveat, I think a lot of people are very nervous around the police and that nervousness shows. Like Stalin is supposed to have said: "Everybody is guilty of something" where the average citizen will screw up is doing something stupid. They become low hanging fruit, an easy arrest, an easy case, plea out, becomes an easy win-win stat for both the coppers and the DA. As a general rule be courteous, don't volunteer information (in Mass do not volunteer if you are carrying unless asked and if asked don't lie, exception: if you are told to exit the vehicle and then state: I have a Mass LTC and I am carrying it (don't even say gun or firearm) how do you want me to proceed ?" YMMV I realize. Don't consent to a search of your vehicle.

Don't resist or argue either, if you think you have been jammed up, you really can get things sorted out later and not every cop walks after a citizen complaint. Believe it or not disciplinary files are maintained and people are reprimanded, careers are affected, and punishments are imposed. Most of you want blood and the cop's job if he or she calls you a low life MF or something , but a two day suspension without pay and a letter of reprimand is probably appropriate. Fire a cop over something like and you have to spend thousands recruiting and training a replacement.

Michael Brown would be alive today if he had been compliant. At most he would have been charged with petty larceny which would have probably been pled down to something even lower with no jail time or maybe probation.

Remember if you look like food you will be eaten. If you look like an easy arrest, you will be arrested, but the cops are not out to get you per se, and do not go searching thru CJIS randomly looking to see if Joe Schmukatelli in Pembroke has guns, there just isn't that much time or interest, even on a slow mid shift. At worst, why look up Joe when there was that hot red head that they stopped last Tuesday? Right [wink]
 
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I asked this question of a LEO. When they run your plate and the information comes back, they can then click on another spot and get the firearm information.

He told me that some officers feel reassured when they stop a gun owner. They know the person has had a background check, is not a felon, and generally law abiding.
 
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I consider my firearms to be tools, or pieces of sporting equipment. Would you hide the fact that you own a hammer or a football?

When everyone can see firearms in the way I do, nobody will care who has them, or how many, or how many bullets their magazines hold.
Are they constantly trying to take/legislate your hammers and footballs away?

This reminds me of the "First they came for" mentality.
 
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Maybe it works to your advantage, every time a cop gets behind me like almost on my bumper so he can read my plate really good, then after a couple of minutes he goes away. Perhaps because he now knows that I may have an arsenal on me?

Or maybe it's just the NES sticker.......

I get that reaction a lot from people behind me but I think it's the "Stay 100 meters back or you will be shot" decal.
 
Ok I'll give the back story now that big LEO supporters are getting butthurt..... Basically my girlfriends younger fresh out of the academy BPD rookie took it upon him self to look up what guns I own and when I wasn't around start rattling them off at the dinner table to her and her family. Iv met this guy all of one time. I have a great repor with her family and no reason for any such search other than he wanted to try and act like a bad ass LEO
 
Hello ....., If this can be proven beyond 'hearsay', he said she said, I would contact the Firearm Record Bureau in Chelsea, read them chapter and verse of the law and demand an explanation as to why he was given this information, do it in writing and send it by fax. retain the copy of fax. , and last but far from least contact the Comm2A lawyers with this story, they would pursue this, probably for free, you can find their link at the bottom of Gun Sense #13. This is a violation of the law, and I have no idea why a cop would do it......he needs legal justification, as in investigating a crime.......

Tell John Doe to line up his witnesses, get their statements.

Sincerely,
Mark Shean & Son
www.mafirearmsafety.com





Now I'm obviously not gunna put my girlfriends brother on blast and have him loose his job etc but I emailed a lawyer during this thread to see if they could clear it up and this is the email I received from the lawyer.
 
Why not? Who the **** has the right to know? NO ONE!
Unfortunately the person who asked this question lives in MA not NH. And in MA firearms need to be registered and LEO's have access to that information.

Let's not act like leftwing moonbats here. I would like to believe that no one has the right to know what guns I own, however I understand that whether I like it or not under Massachusetts General Law c. 140, §§128A and 128B my guns have to be registered.

If I cannot live with that infringement on my personal freedom then I am free to move to NH.
 
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