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Legit red flag?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by allen-1, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. edmorseiii

    edmorseiii Navy Veteran

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    This isn't anymore difficult then any other hypothetical NES has chewed on. Either you are guilty of a crime and are a danger to society, or you are not. If you are, you should be isolated from society. If you are not, then you should be left to your freedom and liberty.
     
  2. enbloc

    enbloc NES Life Member NES Member

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    You know why they call these proposed laws "Red Flag" don't you...?

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Frizzle Fry

    Frizzle Fry

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    If someone makes a threat, charge them with criminal threatening - don't take a BS civil complaint with the lowest standard of evidence possible and deprive them of property without due process in violation of the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments. You want to speed up arraignments in such cases (threats, etc), prioritize them? Fine - the person can be held until then, and the judge/magistrate can make turning in all firearms until the conclusion of the trial a condition. Happens all the time

    Same with the wildly invasive (but not as bad as ERPO/Red Flag) so-called "restraining orders". If someone threatens you or assaults you or harasses you, TAKE A COMPLAINT, THEY CAN MAKE NON-CONTACT A CONDITION. In most states, the bar for what constitutes assault or harassment is exceptionally low. If the person didn't commit a crime, or you believe they did, but you don't want to press charges, why should a civil court be allowed to deprive someone who hasn't committed a crime, nor been accused of one, of their property based on an evidentiary standard similar to a coin toss? Especially when you can just TAKE A COMPLAINT using an existing structure with a reasonable standard of evidence and achieve the same goal (at least short-term) of keeping the person away from you whilst the case is being made.

    Imagine being deprived (in either case) of a good chunk of the bill of rights, for life, having never been accused of a crime, or of being mentally unstable. No, someone just said "I'm scared of this person" and they are left to prove a negative ("uh, no, you're not scared of me!") to a judge whose first instinct is CYA and who's standard is the preponderance of evidence - the shrug standard - "Wellllll I guess it's about as likely that someone is scared of another someone...."
     
  4. Yosemite Sam

    Yosemite Sam NES Member

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    So here’s proof red flagging works.

    Pretzel logic!
    FML



    RED FLAG FAILURE: POLICE TAKE GUNS FROM ILLINOIS MAN, KILLS MOTHER WITH SAMURAI SWORD

    Written by 2nd Amendment Daily News Published: 23 August 2019
    A man in a Chicago suburb was arrested by local police after killing his own mother by stabbing her repeatedly with a samurai sword in the chest.

    [​IMG]
    David Krystyniak (Park Ridge Police Dept.)

    Park Ridge Police had removed David Krystyniak’s firearms two times, with the last time being July 14th, 2019.

    The man was mentally ill and had a long history with social workers and police for erratic behavior in the past.

    David Krystyniak, 47, was arrested on July 29 after a police officer and social worker driving by his home saw groceries strewn on the driveway.

    They approached his door and asked if they could come in — Krystyniak agreed.

    They walked into the home and found the body of his mother, Judith Krystyniak, in a trash can in the living room.

    Police said that she had been stabbed multiple times in the chest with a sword before her body was placed in the trash can…

    Police reports indicated that the four guns were confiscated in 2017 and again in July of this year because David Krystyniak didn’t have a valid FOID card.

    Now, not even two weeks after being disarmed by police, this mentally unwell man just found another weapon.

    His mother wasn’t safe just because his guns were taken away…

    People who are a threat to themselves or others won’t be stopped by Red Flags.

    The abuses of Red Flag laws aside, they simply don’t accomplish what proponents claim they will.

    If somebody is determined to hurt themselves or somebody else, they will just steal somebody else’s gun or find an alternative weapon to use…



    By the looks of the guy, I’m surprised he didn’t throw her on the bbq & have her for lunch. Lol

     
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  5. AHM

    AHM NES Member

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    Where could an Average Joe find a weapon like that?
    .
     
  6. namedpipes

    namedpipes NES Member

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    I've got 3 or 4 swords. Not counting bayonets. Doesn't everyone?
     
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  7. smokey-seven

    smokey-seven NES Member

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    My best friend, a 2.5 tour Vietnam Marine presented me with a very nice machete and said, "Last defense, keep it close." It resides beside my bed.
     
  8. namedpipes

    namedpipes NES Member

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    Doh! Make that 4 or 5. I have a couple of machetes, although they aren't all that good. One from HD or some such and the other from Hazard Freight.
     
  9. MaverickNH

    MaverickNH NES Member

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    Plenty of reason to get the kid without an ERPO. Red Flag Laws are about being able to bypass just cause and due process and *not* take personal responsibility for depriving someone of their civil rights.

    They say - better ten guilty men go free than one innocent man to to jail. Then why - better to take guns from ten with no just cause or due process than let one potential killer keep their guns? A double standard based on fear of an inanimate hunk of metal, wood and plastic.

    “I don’t want to get involved, but someone needs to take that person’s guns.” THAT’S what ERPOs are... You initiate deprivation of someone’s rights - you pay up if you’re wrong.

    Oops - huh - thought you were a mass killer..sorry about the cops seizing your guns, the $1000s you spent proving your innocence, the anguish, etc. But, you understand how things are and all, right? Best people don’t have guns and this sort of thing won’t happen.
     
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  10. MisterHappy

    MisterHappy NES Member

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    On the 16 yard line, shootin' for the Lewis!
    China Grove?
     
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  11. MisterHappy

    MisterHappy NES Member

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    On the 16 yard line, shootin' for the Lewis!

    Only NOOBS to the collecting/accumulating game! [rofl]
     
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  12. Lokdog

    Lokdog

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    Holy crap, Thumbelina. Looks like someone drew a face on their thumb!
     
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  13. PaulR

    PaulR NES Member

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    He was going to, he just didn't get to let her finish marinating in the garbage can.
     
  14. MaverickNH

    MaverickNH NES Member

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    There’s no such thing as a White Nationalist. White Supremacist - sure.

    Google Trends shows the phrase was unused until Trump’s campaign started catching hold. The liberal media needed needed something that evoked White Supremacist, racist and xenophobe rolled into one. Only kooks like this guy think they’re a White Nationalist.

    When Hispanics become the majority, will they be Brown Nationalists because of their heritage or White Nationalists because they aspire to the White American Dream? Would Native Americans be called Red Nationalists? I’m not sure what a Black Nationalist might even be... but Libtard is starting to appear in online dictionaries.
     
  15. MassachussettsMosinNagant

    MassachussettsMosinNagant

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    [MESSAGE ERROR] (PDF.1STAMENDMENT) NOT FOUND. PLEASE RESTART, DELETE 33,000 EMAILS AND TRY AGAIN.
     
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  16. MisterHappy

    MisterHappy NES Member

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    On the 16 yard line, shootin' for the Lewis!

    They can't. Form 4473 identifies "White" and "Hispanic or Latino" as separate.

    .Gov knows best.
     
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  17. oldguy47

    oldguy47 NES Member

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    +1 !
     
  18. Darksideblues42

    Darksideblues42 NES Life Member NES Member

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    I have 4 or 5 and this gem:

    A Bec De Corbin, has poking bits, hooking bits that are also poking bits, and a crushing bit.
     

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  19. citoriguy

    citoriguy NES Member

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    And a terrified kitty to boot!
     
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  20. Darksideblues42

    Darksideblues42 NES Life Member NES Member

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    Nah, that's just her normal "WTF are you doing now?" Look.
     
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  21. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    If someone posts they are going to commit a crime, you cant expect the cops to not get involved.

    If the person commits the crime, we would all be saying the system failed to see the warning.

    If the person wasnt really going to commit a crime, we call it an attack on the 1st.

    It's not an easy call.
     
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  22. ToddDubya

    ToddDubya NES Member

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    I've got one called my living room. You're welcome to never come over.
     
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  23. MisterHappy

    MisterHappy NES Member

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    Yeah....because you have a badass get-the-cat-out-from-under-the-bed tool! [laugh]
     
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  24. amm5061

    amm5061 NES Member

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    Anyone else remember when "Hispanic" used to mean you checked "White?"
     
  25. edmorseiii

    edmorseiii Navy Veteran

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    I think that only applies when you are Hencho en Espania.
     
  26. AHM

    AHM NES Member

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    Would that make you a Henchman, or a Henchhombre?
     
  27. Heathen

    Heathen

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    There are no legit red flags.
     
  28. MassachussettsMosinNagant

    MassachussettsMosinNagant

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    It is an easy call, a call that has been made since before the invention of the rock lol. Punish actions, not words. Simple and plain. We have free speech in this country and you can't decipher sarcasm.

    If I arrested everyone on my timeline I seen post "Just did a 10 hour work shift, I could kill someone" type posts. I'd have a lot of ARs and a bunch of full cells.


    Nobody has that authority. Jokes can be clear jokes. I can come on here and say "Autumn is the best season for killing hookers". You can't tell if I have a dark humor of i'm the next Dahmer. But guess what. It's not your authority to. You prove I did something illegal or you keep your hands and cuffs to yourself.
     
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  29. Broccoli Iglesias

    Broccoli Iglesias NES Member

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    In your example you are saying "I COULD kill someone" not "I will...". In your autumn example, you also didnt say that this season you WILL kill people.

    I think it was the Florida shooting that everyone in NES was saying that the cops should have seen the signs all over social media, and maybe even the NRA and others were talking about that.

    So, what is it? ... do we let people say they WILL kill people but do nothing until they actually try or do we act on the threat?

    Dont get me wrong, I'm 100% pro free speech. But if we go that route, then we cant blame the .gov for not seeing the comments all over social media when some politician tries to take our guns.

    That's why I said, it's a tough call.
     
  30. MassachussettsMosinNagant

    MassachussettsMosinNagant

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    What can you do? Arrest anyone who posts something edgy? That's censorship. I want no part of it. No GOVERNMENT should be monitoring our social media to begin with. But if you are going to monitor our phone calls, emails and facebook posts. You sure as f*** shouldn't be allowed to imprison or institutionalize someone in the court of law using a violation of the 5th as the means.


    If someone is posting threats to a individual. It is up to that individual to request a restraining order and have them arrested.


    It's an easy call to me. Leave free Americans the hell alone and wait for a criminal act to take someone's rights away.


    So to answer your question, I think we got the latter route. We let it be. Words don't constitute crime in a free speech country imo.
     
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