Legit red flag?

edmorseiii

Navy Veteran
Rating - 100%
17   0   0
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
18,801
Likes
8,878
Location
NH
What's a reasonable concession though? Honestly when digging into this article I read this kid as "mentally unstable incel fruit loop" basically stamped on his forehead and I think in most parts of the US this kid would have been sucked into section 12 or whatever the psych eval is called, at a bare minimum, and possibly face felony charges for making threats of violence. (although admittedly that part is still pretty vague) I don't think ERPO or any of that horseshit would have been necessary to arrest this kid. You wouldn't need erpo because this kid would have likely violated his probation, blah blah blah, and he'd be sitting in jail regardless.

I also think there's a lot we're not being told here, as well. I'm still pretty safe in
thinking that ERPO garbage likely is not necessary. IMHO it only ever existed as a tool to abuse peoples rights with. If someone is dangerous enough the system has other methods to deal with that without resorting to some hack that eliminates due process.

-Mike
This isn't anymore difficult then any other hypothetical NES has chewed on. Either you are guilty of a crime and are a danger to society, or you are not. If you are, you should be isolated from society. If you are not, then you should be left to your freedom and liberty.
 
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
3,189
Likes
2,231
Location
Metro West
If someone makes a threat, charge them with criminal threatening - don't take a BS civil complaint with the lowest standard of evidence possible and deprive them of property without due process in violation of the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments. You want to speed up arraignments in such cases (threats, etc), prioritize them? Fine - the person can be held until then, and the judge/magistrate can make turning in all firearms until the conclusion of the trial a condition. Happens all the time

Same with the wildly invasive (but not as bad as ERPO/Red Flag) so-called "restraining orders". If someone threatens you or assaults you or harasses you, TAKE A COMPLAINT, THEY CAN MAKE NON-CONTACT A CONDITION. In most states, the bar for what constitutes assault or harassment is exceptionally low. If the person didn't commit a crime, or you believe they did, but you don't want to press charges, why should a civil court be allowed to deprive someone who hasn't committed a crime, nor been accused of one, of their property based on an evidentiary standard similar to a coin toss? Especially when you can just TAKE A COMPLAINT using an existing structure with a reasonable standard of evidence and achieve the same goal (at least short-term) of keeping the person away from you whilst the case is being made.

Imagine being deprived (in either case) of a good chunk of the bill of rights, for life, having never been accused of a crime, or of being mentally unstable. No, someone just said "I'm scared of this person" and they are left to prove a negative ("uh, no, you're not scared of me!") to a judge whose first instinct is CYA and who's standard is the preponderance of evidence - the shrug standard - "Wellllll I guess it's about as likely that someone is scared of another someone...."
 

Yosemite Sam

NES Member
Rating - 100%
10   0   0
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
434
Likes
340
Location
Massachusetts
So here’s proof red flagging works.

Pretzel logic!
FML



RED FLAG FAILURE: POLICE TAKE GUNS FROM ILLINOIS MAN, KILLS MOTHER WITH SAMURAI SWORD

Written by 2nd Amendment Daily News Published: 23 August 2019
A man in a Chicago suburb was arrested by local police after killing his own mother by stabbing her repeatedly with a samurai sword in the chest.


David Krystyniak (Park Ridge Police Dept.)

Park Ridge Police had removed David Krystyniak’s firearms two times, with the last time being July 14th, 2019.

The man was mentally ill and had a long history with social workers and police for erratic behavior in the past.

David Krystyniak, 47, was arrested on July 29 after a police officer and social worker driving by his home saw groceries strewn on the driveway.

They approached his door and asked if they could come in — Krystyniak agreed.

They walked into the home and found the body of his mother, Judith Krystyniak, in a trash can in the living room.

Police said that she had been stabbed multiple times in the chest with a sword before her body was placed in the trash can…

Police reports indicated that the four guns were confiscated in 2017 and again in July of this year because David Krystyniak didn’t have a valid FOID card.

Now, not even two weeks after being disarmed by police, this mentally unwell man just found another weapon.

His mother wasn’t safe just because his guns were taken away…

People who are a threat to themselves or others won’t be stopped by Red Flags.

The abuses of Red Flag laws aside, they simply don’t accomplish what proponents claim they will.

If somebody is determined to hurt themselves or somebody else, they will just steal somebody else’s gun or find an alternative weapon to use…



By the looks of the guy, I’m surprised he didn’t throw her on the bbq & have her for lunch. Lol

 

AHM

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
5,846
Likes
2,983
Police reports indicated that the four guns were confiscated in 2017 and again in July of this year because David Krystyniak didn’t have a valid FOID card.

Now, not even two weeks after being disarmed by police, this mentally unwell man just found another weapon.
Where could an Average Joe find a weapon like that?
.
 

namedpipes

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
32,195
Likes
14,772
Location
PREM
My best friend, a 2.5 tour Vietnam Marine presented me with a very nice machete and said, "Last defense, keep it close." It resides beside my bed.
Doh! Make that 4 or 5. I have a couple of machetes, although they aren't all that good. One from HD or some such and the other from Hazard Freight.
 

MaverickNH

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
3,246
Likes
1,116
Location
SoNH
Plenty of reason to get the kid without an ERPO. Red Flag Laws are about being able to bypass just cause and due process and *not* take personal responsibility for depriving someone of their civil rights.

They say - better ten guilty men go free than one innocent man to to jail. Then why - better to take guns from ten with no just cause or due process than let one potential killer keep their guns? A double standard based on fear of an inanimate hunk of metal, wood and plastic.

“I don’t want to get involved, but someone needs to take that person’s guns.” THAT’S what ERPOs are... You initiate deprivation of someone’s rights - you pay up if you’re wrong.

Oops - huh - thought you were a mass killer..sorry about the cops seizing your guns, the $1000s you spent proving your innocence, the anguish, etc. But, you understand how things are and all, right? Best people don’t have guns and this sort of thing won’t happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jpk
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Sep 2, 2016
Messages
610
Likes
539
So here’s proof red flagging works.

Pretzel logic!
FML



RED FLAG FAILURE: POLICE TAKE GUNS FROM ILLINOIS MAN, KILLS MOTHER WITH SAMURAI SWORD

Written by 2nd Amendment Daily News Published: 23 August 2019
A man in a Chicago suburb was arrested by local police after killing his own mother by stabbing her repeatedly with a samurai sword in the chest.


David Krystyniak (Park Ridge Police Dept.)

Park Ridge Police had removed David Krystyniak’s firearms two times, with the last time being July 14th, 2019.

The man was mentally ill and had a long history with social workers and police for erratic behavior in the past.

David Krystyniak, 47, was arrested on July 29 after a police officer and social worker driving by his home saw groceries strewn on the driveway.

They approached his door and asked if they could come in — Krystyniak agreed.

They walked into the home and found the body of his mother, Judith Krystyniak, in a trash can in the living room.

Police said that she had been stabbed multiple times in the chest with a sword before her body was placed in the trash can…

Police reports indicated that the four guns were confiscated in 2017 and again in July of this year because David Krystyniak didn’t have a valid FOID card.

Now, not even two weeks after being disarmed by police, this mentally unwell man just found another weapon.

His mother wasn’t safe just because his guns were taken away…

People who are a threat to themselves or others won’t be stopped by Red Flags.

The abuses of Red Flag laws aside, they simply don’t accomplish what proponents claim they will.

If somebody is determined to hurt themselves or somebody else, they will just steal somebody else’s gun or find an alternative weapon to use…



By the looks of the guy, I’m surprised he didn’t throw her on the bbq & have her for lunch. Lol
Holy crap, Thumbelina. Looks like someone drew a face on their thumb!
 
  • Like
Reactions: AHM

MaverickNH

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
3,246
Likes
1,116
Location
SoNH
There’s no such thing as a White Nationalist. White Supremacist - sure.

Google Trends shows the phrase was unused until Trump’s campaign started catching hold. The liberal media needed needed something that evoked White Supremacist, racist and xenophobe rolled into one. Only kooks like this guy think they’re a White Nationalist.

When Hispanics become the majority, will they be Brown Nationalists because of their heritage or White Nationalists because they aspire to the White American Dream? Would Native Americans be called Red Nationalists? I’m not sure what a Black Nationalist might even be... but Libtard is starting to appear in online dictionaries.
 

MisterHappy

NES Member
Rating - 100%
15   0   0
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
20,776
Likes
5,582
Location
On the 16 yard line, shootin' for the Lewis!
There’s no such thing as a White Nationalist. White Supremacist - sure.

Google Trends shows the phrase was unused until Trump’s campaign started catching hold. The liberal media needed needed something that evoked White Supremacist, racist and xenophobe rolled into one. Only kooks like this guy think they’re a White Nationalist.

When Hispanics become the majority, will they be Brown Nationalists because of their heritage or White Nationalists because they aspire to the White American Dream? Would Native Americans be called Red Nationalists? I’m not sure what a Black Nationalist might even be... but Libtard is starting to appear in online dictionaries.

They can't. Form 4473 identifies "White" and "Hispanic or Latino" as separate.

.Gov knows best.
 

oldguy47

NES Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
923
Likes
238
Location
Brockton MA
Kid says dumb stuff on facebook and now we take away his civil rights? What's next tossing him off a cliff because we don't like what he's saying? This pre-crime nonsense is idiotic BS. The moral of the story is this: If you want to say dumb sh*t don't say it online.
+1 !
 

Broccoli Iglesias

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
20,190
Likes
8,966
Location
Suckachusetts
If someone posts they are going to commit a crime, you cant expect the cops to not get involved.

If the person commits the crime, we would all be saying the system failed to see the warning.

If the person wasnt really going to commit a crime, we call it an attack on the 1st.

It's not an easy call.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Messages
306
Likes
239
If someone posts they are going to commit a crime, you cant expect the cops to not get involved.

If the person commits the crime, we would all be saying the system failed to see the warning.

If the person wasnt really going to commit a crime, we call it an attack on the 1st.

It's not an easy call.

It is an easy call, a call that has been made since before the invention of the rock lol. Punish actions, not words. Simple and plain. We have free speech in this country and you can't decipher sarcasm.

If I arrested everyone on my timeline I seen post "Just did a 10 hour work shift, I could kill someone" type posts. I'd have a lot of ARs and a bunch of full cells.


Nobody has that authority. Jokes can be clear jokes. I can come on here and say "Autumn is the best season for killing hookers". You can't tell if I have a dark humor of i'm the next Dahmer. But guess what. It's not your authority to. You prove I did something illegal or you keep your hands and cuffs to yourself.
 

Broccoli Iglesias

NES Member
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
20,190
Likes
8,966
Location
Suckachusetts
It is an easy call, a call that has been made since before the invention of the rock lol. Punish actions, not words. Simple and plain. We have free speech in this country and you can't decipher sarcasm.

If I arrested everyone on my timeline I seen post "Just did a 10 hour work shift, I could kill someone" type posts. I'd have a lot of ARs and a bunch of full cells.


Nobody has that authority. Jokes can be clear jokes. I can come on here and say "Autumn is the best season for killing hookers". You can't tell if I have a dark humor of i'm the next Dahmer. But guess what. It's not your authority to. You prove I did something illegal or you keep your hands and cuffs to yourself.
In your example you are saying "I COULD kill someone" not "I will...". In your autumn example, you also didnt say that this season you WILL kill people.

I think it was the Florida shooting that everyone in NES was saying that the cops should have seen the signs all over social media, and maybe even the NRA and others were talking about that.

So, what is it? ... do we let people say they WILL kill people but do nothing until they actually try or do we act on the threat?

Dont get me wrong, I'm 100% pro free speech. But if we go that route, then we cant blame the .gov for not seeing the comments all over social media when some politician tries to take our guns.

That's why I said, it's a tough call.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Messages
306
Likes
239
In your example you are saying "I COULD kill someone" not "I will...". In your autumn example, you also didnt say that this season you WILL kill people.

I think it was the Florida shooting that everyone in NES was saying that the cops should have seen the signs all over social media, and maybe even the NRA and others were talking about that.

So, what is it? ... do we let people say they WILL kill people but do nothing until they actually try or do we act on the threat?

Dont get me wrong, I'm 100% pro free speech. But if we go that route, then we cant blame the .gov for not seeing the comments all over social media when some politician tries to take our guns.

That's why I said, it's a tough call.

What can you do? Arrest anyone who posts something edgy? That's censorship. I want no part of it. No GOVERNMENT should be monitoring our social media to begin with. But if you are going to monitor our phone calls, emails and facebook posts. You sure as f*** shouldn't be allowed to imprison or institutionalize someone in the court of law using a violation of the 5th as the means.


If someone is posting threats to a individual. It is up to that individual to request a restraining order and have them arrested.


It's an easy call to me. Leave free Americans the hell alone and wait for a criminal act to take someone's rights away.


So to answer your question, I think we got the latter route. We let it be. Words don't constitute crime in a free speech country imo.
 
Top Bottom