Legality of dummy rounds in MA?

F

FiremanBob

Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
6,515
Likes
20,927
Feedback: 4 / 0 / 0
I need to send a plastic .22 snap cap and a deactivated real .22 cartridge (hole drilled in case and powder removed) to someone in Boston so he can design a mold for a new snap cap product I am planning to produce. He does not have a Mass. carry permit or FID.

Does this plan violate any laws in MA?

Thanks.
 
should be fine provided any part can not be used to make a functioning cartridge again.

i assume the .22 cartridge is spent--not sure how else you would deactivate the primer.

you might want to check the dimensions on your dummy though before making a mold from it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle

edit: you didn't mention if the bullet would be present. not sure if/how you can deactivate a bullet but technically that would be a component and not permitted to be possessed provided it can be used as a bullet.

some further reading: http://www.massbar.org/publications...others,-or,-the-danger-of-spent-shell-casings

fundamental debate is when is a cartridge case no longer a cartridge case?
 
Last edited:
Stryker said:
In MA, components are considered ammunition (even spent brass) and requires an LTC or FID to possess it
Click to expand...

OMG, I can't believe this is a topic of discussion. I'm not questioning the validity of the topic, just that the state has everyone so concerned about handling a 'deactivated' .22 piece of brass. It boggles my mind that we as a nation have allowed this to happen to us (some of us anyway)
 
Remember when they arrested someone in western MA because they had a spent brass necklace or earring or something stupid like that. Effing rediculous.
 
Wow. I sure am glad I left New England years ago.

So even though it is totally impracticable to reload a .22 cartridge with a hole in the side, it sounds like I'd be putting him at risk.

I'll see if he can put the SAAMI specs into his CAD program and get a workable model.
 
FiremanBob said:
Wow. I sure am glad I left New England years ago.

So even though it is totally impracticable to reload a .22 cartridge with a hole in the side, it sounds like I'd be putting him at risk.

I'll see if he can put the SAAMI specs into his CAD program and get a workable model.
Click to expand...

i would just do it and get it done. the usually people who get charged with that shit have it put on as an add on charge and not the sole reason for their arrest.
 
FiremanBob said:
Wow. I sure am glad I left New England years ago.

So even though it is totally impracticable to reload a .22 cartridge with a hole in the side, it sounds like I'd be putting him at risk.

I'll see if he can put the SAAMI specs into his CAD program and get a workable model.
Click to expand...

Another win for the MA AG and the beloved MA legislature. Let's throw them a big party to let them know they're loved [party][party][party]
 
drgrant said:
Where does the law actually stipulate this?

-Mike
Click to expand...

I'm curious about this too as that is NOT my understanding of the current law.

They shut down schools and bring in SWAT and bomb-sniffing dogs when a .22LR spent casing is found in a school hallway in MA!
 
I've had vendors refuse to send me packaged red a-zoom snap caps because... Massachusetts. I wouldn't take a chance on snap caps using inert components.
 
The real answer is that there is no answer.

Ammo is evil; components are evil; people have been arrested for unlicensed possession of spent cartridges (about 3 years back in Framingham is one I know of).

That said, empty shotshells are shoveled into dumpsters, and cartridges key chains are sold.
 
Be discreet, tell him not to leave that sh*t out, and get 'er done.

giphy.gif
 
Last edited:
MisterHappy said:
The real answer is that there is no answer.

Ammo is evil; components are evil; people have been arrested for unlicensed possession of spent cartridges (about 3 years back in Framingham is one I know of).

That said, empty shotshells are shoveled into dumpsters, and cartridges key chains are sold.
Click to expand...

That's just what was intended by the law makers who have passed these so called laws. Be sure the public doesn't have a clear idea what the laws cover and most of them won't take a chance on breaking them. The plan works to perfection
 
drgrant said:
Where does the law actually stipulate this?

-Mike
Click to expand...

MGL 269-10, emphasis added https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/chapter269/section10

For purposes of this section, “ammunition” shall mean cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun.
Click to expand...

In the case I previously referenced, the courts upheld a conviction of possessing spent cartridges at the scene of a shooting but the court noted it was NOT making judgement on cartridges kept as souvenirs, scrap or other "innocent purposes."

http://masscases.com/cases/app/78/78massappct28.html#foot6




Len-2A Training said:
I'm curious about this too as that is NOT my understanding of the current law.

They shut down schools and bring in SWAT and bomb-sniffing dogs when a .22LR spent casing is found in a school hallway in MA!
Click to expand...

not sure what a SWAT response to a school has to do with the law [rolleyes] are you also not allowed to have peanuts at your house because the other kids might have allergies?
 
cockpitbob said:
Another_David was using reason and logic. Reason and logic have nothing to do with laws, what goes on in court or how the police will treat you.
Click to expand...

yup, applying logic--and offering citations--and not just regurgitating something i read somewhere one time or heard from some former cop or a self proclaimed expert

case in point:

Picton said:
I've had vendors refuse to send me packaged red a-zoom snap caps because... Massachusetts. I wouldn't take a chance on snap caps using inert components.
Click to expand...

my grandma won't climb stairs but that doesn't mean IT'S ILLEGAL TO USE STIARS IN MASS!

we are our own worst enemy sometime. don't just assume someone's shipping policy is Mass law. snap caps aren't ammunition
 
Another_David said:
MGL 269-10, emphasis added https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/chapter269/section10
Click to expand...

Your stipulation WRT functioning cartridges doesn't exactly correlate with what is printed there. Not to mention a dummy round is also "designed for use" in a gun, too, it just doesn't fire any projectile.... so is it or isn't it ammunition under MGL? [laugh] The law does not say "Designed for firing" or anything like that.

In the case I previously referenced, the courts upheld a conviction of possessing spent cartridges at the scene of a shooting but the court noted it was NOT making judgement on cartridges kept as souvenirs, scrap or other "innocent purposes."
Click to expand...

Not really relevant, it's just some judge leaving the door open.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Your stipulation WRT functioning cartridges doesn't exactly correlate with what is printed there. Not to mention a dummy round is also "designed for use" in a gun, too, it just doesn't fire any projectile.... so is it or isn't it ammunition under MGL? [laugh] The law does not say "Designed for firing" or anything like that.

Not really relevant, it's just some judge leaving the door open.

-Mike
Click to expand...

Snap caps are NOT ammunition or components used to make ammunition. They do not have a casing, primer, bullet or propellant powder. The law doesn't state that ANYTHING designed for use in a firearm is ammunition but rather "cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun" are ammunition. So to be considered ammunition an object would have to be a case, primer, bullet or powder AND ALSO designed for use in a firearm--not just one or the other.

Furthermore, while the law does not include the words "designed for firing," the plain and ordinary use of the word "ammunition" still applies, which Merriam-Webster defines ammunition as "the projectiles with their fuses, propelling charges, or primers fired from guns."

I don't understand why people try to wordsmith the MGL into something more restrictive than what's written. I suppose people get a thrill out of mocking the stupidity of the government but you're doing a real disservice to the shooting community by perpetuating nonsense like snap caps are regulated in Mass.
 
Last edited:
A Fixxah, you have asked the magic question. The .22LR dummy rounds I plan to manufacture will last for hundreds of shots each, and feed properly even in a semi-auto firearm.
 
I have several hundred rounds of inert (no primer - bullet installed) linked 7.62, dummy hand grenades (hole in the bottom), and empty artillery shells. These are stored in ammo cans, except for the artillery shells.

Do I have to lock these dummy/inert/shells up in my ammo locker along with my real ammo?
 
Another_David said:
my grandma won't climb stairs but that doesn't mean IT'S ILLEGAL TO USE STIARS IN MASS!

we are our own worst enemy sometime. don't just assume someone's shipping policy is Mass law. snap caps aren't ammunition
Click to expand...

What are you getting mad at me for? I know full well that Mass law doesn't ban shipping snap caps, and I'm not assuming anything. But if a vendor's choosing to be ignorant about that, then I've got two choices: spend my time educating him, or just take my business elsewhere. I choose to spend my money elsewhere, thus rewarding a less ignorant vendor. How does that make me my own worst enemy?
 
Use an existing snap cap, or a live cartridge. It's the only way to get the proper dimensions. Unless you can size a spent .22, the cases will be tight in cylinders or chambers.


Edit: You could pull the bullet, dump the powder, and fire off the primer. The size should be fine.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Is the HK USP .45 legal in MA?
Replies
16
Views
457
drgrant
drgrant
Expired MA LTC = useful?
Replies
21
Views
513
67ray
67ray
Personal transfer of pre-Healy MA compliant AR and/or lowers
Replies
4
Views
275
Mesatchornug
Mesatchornug
eFA-10 For Shotgun Purchased Out of State, What Do I Put In The Dealer Info Area?
Replies
3
Views
170
Rick O'Shea
Rick O'Shea
New to MA
2 3
Replies
69
Views
2K
HooVooLoo
HooVooLoo
Back
Top Bottom