Leaving the store with a new firearm.

[drgrant]

LOL I bought a used pistol about a year ago and they gave me a brown bag. I gave it back to them, put the pistol behind my belt on my back and walked out of the store.

Gotta love free states... I jsut cant believe that you have to figure out how the best way to get to ypur car with a new pistol lol... shakes head. mass will always think of something to discourage sales huh?

I've seen people do the same thing in MA, too.

-Mike

 

[DrEvil]

FYI about delays... They are something on your record, or someones record with a like name...

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet

 

[whacko]

I understand how new gun owners get "concerned" in mass when they make their purchases. The laws are vague at best. All we can do is re-assure new owners to try their best and follow the law as best they understand. "massprudence" is the term I use with my friends and acquaintances that ask me questions. Recently had a friend that has gotten his ltc unrestricted. He purchased a new s and w shield and being itchy to try it out offered to host him at my club. He called me a couple hours before he was to meet me at the range......asking about a case to lock it for transport etc.......I kind of giggled and said "you have an ltc unrestricted....you are bringing one gun........you have a holster......put it in the holster on your hip dude you are all set". He said "ok I just wanted to be sure"......then he asked if he had to lock up his range ammo in a hard box.......*sigh*......just put the ammo in a duffle bag and get your ass to the range. Mass sucks.


About cable locks when purchasing........I've always brought my own when buying a used gun......keep one in my truck in case I find a "deal" and have to transport it off my person. ALL my new gun purchases have come with a cable lock.......The Mossberg ones are a joke.......all the keys are identical

 

[Snora]

Triggerlock or cable lock? You've mentioned both.

If it was a triggerlock, and they made you buy it to leave the store, I would call Carl and bitch about it. A triggerlock does not cover you as a locked firearm for transport.


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Trigger lock doesn't count for locked transport? I've never heard that before, could you provide a source?

 

[szaino]

Trigger lock doesn't count for locked transport? I've never heard that before, could you provide a source?

When you are talking handguns being transported in a car, trigger locks have no legal implications. In a car, handguns are either under your control, or in a locked container, case, or trunk.

 

[PATRON]

I am new here and am trying to understand this 3 day waiting period. I just got my LTC unrestricted and was under the impression the last few months were my waiting period and that I could walk into my local gun shop pay for my purchase and walk out with it. I also thought it was my responsibility to make certain I had a proper way to lock said purchase up when I got home and didn't need to purchase extra locks for transportation? Am I wrong? Also my truck has a console that locks cant I put my purchase in there, I assumed since it was locked it would be ok?

Let me ask you a question,you stated that you just received your LTC.So you must have taken a firearm safety course,didn't they teach you any of this?

 

[dgrafton]

Trigger lock doesn't count for locked transport? I've never heard that before, could you provide a source?

It's been etched in my brain so long now, I can't remember the source. Was just discussing this with Jon Green from GOAL last night, great seminar on MA gun laws.
He is jgreen here on NES. Track him down and send a message, he will have more info than you can imagine, great source.
My go to procedure is everything gets locked in a cheap, padded soft case, unless it is holstered. This covers large and non-large capacity handguns and longguns for both transport and storage if I stop anywhere. I have a bunch of cheap padlocks that are all keyed alike.


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[dgrafton]

Let me ask you a question,you stated that you just received your LTC.So you must have taken a firearm safety course,didn't they teach you any of this?

I have sat in on many Basic Pistol and Home Firearm Safety classes. I can't tell you how many times students were given the incorrect info. Not all instructors have a grasp of what the actual law states for all circumstances. That is why these threads pop up continuously.


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[1jeep]

Let me ask you a question,you stated that you just received your LTC.So you must have taken a firearm safety course,didn't they teach you any of this?

yes they did, but every time I turn around I am getting different info.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I have sat in on many Basic Pistol and Home Firearm Safety classes. I can't tell you how many times students were given the incorrect info. Not all instructors have a grasp of what the actual law states for all circumstances. That is why these threads pop up continuously.


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My MA Gun Law Seminar is designed not to be redundant with the BFS courses, however due to so much bad info on storage and transportation I dedicate about 5 minutes on each of these subjects in my seminar!

Most instructors seem to be totally clueless about MA gun laws and even the EPO that taught the law portion of my Hunter Ed course gave felony-level bad info on these topics!

 

[dgrafton]

My MA Gun Law Seminar is designed not to be redundant with the BFS courses, however due to so much bad info on storage and transportation I dedicate about 5 minutes on each of these subjects in my seminar!

Most instructors seem to be totally clueless about MA gun laws and even the EPO that taught the law portion of my Hunter Ed course gave felony-level bad info on these topics!

Yes, Len, your course is another I have recommended to people though I haven't had a chance to take it myself yet.


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[Fatnipples]

Update on my pickup at 4seasons. Picked up my Rugar 22sr that I purchased from 4s and a S&W 642Talo I got off Gunbroker and had them do the transfer. Left the store with both in a black plastic bag. Each gun did have its own lock in the box!

 

[dcmdon]

If they're new, they should come with a cable or trigger lock. I wrapped the cable lock tightly around the handle of the case and locked it. If it can't be opened, you should be GTG. I would be careful about casually looping the cable around the case, though. Just my opinion.

Edit: this is because I have an SUV, so no trunk...

1) The OP specifically said he had a trunk.
2) The requirement to case or put in a trunk only refers to "Large capacity rifles or shotguns". There is no mention of handguns.
3) Per the law, there are no restricitions on the tr)ansport of UNLOADED handguns.
4) Even if you want to be massWussified, If you have a trunk, no locking container needed.

Trigger or action locks don't help you for transport anyway, so should not even be discussed. The law explicitly states they can go in the trunk or a locking container if you don't have a trunk.

In summary. (Assuming you have a LTC-A) The prudent thing is to just put the guns in the trunk, no additional locks or cases needed, although you would be legal putting them anywhere in the car with no lock or case as long as they are unloaded.

Don

Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

 

[dcmdon]

Update on my pickup at 4seasons. Picked up my Rugar 22sr that I purchased from 4s and a S&W 642Talo I got off Gunbroker and had them do the transfer. Left the store with both in a black plastic bag. Each gun did have its own lock in the box!

Remember a trigger or action lock does you no good for transport.

 

[szaino]

1) The OP specifically said he had a trunk.
2) The requirement to case or put in a trunk only refers to "Large capacity rifles or shotguns". There is no mention of handguns.
3) Per the law, there are no restricitions on the tr)ansport of UNLOADED handguns.
4) Even if you want to be massWussified, If you have a trunk, no locking container needed.

Trigger or action locks don't help you for transport anyway, so should not even be discussed. The law explicitly states they can go in the trunk or a locking container if you don't have a trunk.

In summary. (Assuming you have a LTC-A) The prudent thing is to just put the guns in the trunk, no additional locks or cases needed, although you would be legal putting them anywhere in the car with no lock or case as long as they are unloaded.

Don

Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

I believe #3 above is incorrect. This section for class A only deals with loaded handguns. Unloaded is covered under another section I forget where, but a handgun not under your control, must be unloaded and in a locked container, case, or trunk while transporting.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don's position about handguns is downright dangerous. This is NOT CT! Anyone with an uncased (or locked in the trunk) handgun laying on a seat will get prosecuted and I give them a 100% chance of conviction and Federal PP status. The nuances of our non-lawyer readings of the law won't mean a damn thing to a judge or jury in a MA court!

 

[42!]

yes they did, but every time I turn around I am getting different info.

S.N.A.F.U.

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[EJFudd]

FS tried to pull that BS on me too, I told him I was carrying it in my pants, he said didn't matter, I said my LTC says it does. He backed down.

Yeah, that happened to me once too. FS salesperson tried to get me to buy a lock with a used pistol. I told them to forget the deal. Salesperson backed off, I bought the gun and I left with it in my pocket.

Bring your own device. Sell it to the store for 1c. Buy it from the store with your purchase for 1c. Tell Glidden to go eff himself.

I have never visited a shop since then without bringing a couple "free" cop locks with me. Never a problem ever again.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Here we go again... READ the law : MGL c. 140 § 131 (L)(a). A car is not a "Secure Locked Container" and that was reaffirmed in 2014 with the case of Commonwealth v. Amaury Reyes, 464 Mass. 245 (2013). THe best advice I see in this thread is to stick the guns in your belt (or your pocket) where they are UNDER YOUR DIRECT CONTROL. If the FFL provides you with a lock as required by law then lock the case or render the forearm unusable with the lock before you put it in your trunk as required by MGL c.140

Now what if the trunk is completely inaccessible from inside the car cabin?

 

[dezignguy]

Update on my pickup at 4seasons. Picked up my Rugar 22sr that I purchased from 4s and a S&W 642Talo I got off Gunbroker and had them do the transfer. Left the store with both in a black plastic bag. Each gun did have its own lock in the box!

Congratulations on your new purchases..have fun shooting.

 

[EJFudd]

I believe #3 above is incorrect. This section for class A only deals with loaded handguns. Unloaded is covered under another section I forget where, but a handgun not under your control, must be unloaded and in a locked container, case, or trunk while transporting.

Don's position about handguns is downright dangerous. This is NOT CT! Anyone with an uncased (or locked in the trunk) handgun laying on a seat will get prosecuted and I give them a 100% chance of conviction and Federal PP status. The nuances of our non-lawyer readings of the law won't mean a damn thing to a judge or jury in a MA court!

Okay, I'll play. If Don is wrong, where does Massachusetts law (and not just the FRB's silly website FAQ) deal with the transport in a vehicle of an unloaded handgun by the holder of an LTC-A?

 

[dcmdon]

1) The OP specifically said he had a trunk.
2) The requirement to case or put in a trunk only refers to "Large capacity rifles or shotguns". There is no mention of handguns.
3) Per the law, there are no restricitions on the tr)ansport of UNLOADED handguns.
4) Even if you want to be massWussified, If you have a trunk, no locking container needed.

Trigger or action locks don't help you for transport anyway, so should not even be discussed. The law explicitly states they can go in the trunk or a locking container if you don't have a trunk.

In summary. (Assuming you have a LTC-A) The prudent thing is to just put the guns in the trunk, no additional locks or cases needed, although you would be legal putting them anywhere in the car with no lock or case as long as they are unloaded.

Don

Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

I believe #3 above is incorrect. This section for class A only deals with loaded handguns. Unloaded is covered under another section I forget where, but a handgun not under your control, must be unloaded and in a locked container, case, or trunk while transporting.

Show me the law.

 

[dcmdon]

1) The OP specifically said he had a trunk.
2) The requirement to case or put in a trunk only refers to "Large capacity rifles or shotguns". There is no mention of handguns.
3) Per the law, there are no restricitions on the tr)ansport of UNLOADED handguns.
4) Even if you want to be massWussified, If you have a trunk, no locking container needed.

Trigger or action locks don't help you for transport anyway, so should not even be discussed. The law explicitly states they can go in the trunk or a locking container if you don't have a trunk.

In summary. (Assuming you have a LTC-A) The prudent thing is to just put the guns in the trunk, no additional locks or cases needed, although you would be legal putting them anywhere in the car with no lock or case as long as they are unloaded.

Don

Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

Don's position about handguns is downright dangerous. This is NOT CT! Anyone with an uncased (or locked in the trunk) handgun laying on a seat will get prosecuted and I give them a 100% chance of conviction and Federal PP status. The nuances of our non-lawyer readings of the law won't mean a damn thing to a judge or jury in a MA court!

I did not advocate transporting an unloaded handgun in the open. I said its legal. Which it is. Show me the prohibition.

I prefaced it by saying that it would be prudent to case it or put it in the trunk. That doesn't change the fact that there is no legal prohibition. I've asked to see the prohibition and nobody can provide it. They tell me that it will get you arrested if you transport that way.

I don't doubt that. I'm drawing a distinction between what the law is, and what is advisable.

I believe we are in complete agreement.
1) there is no restriction in MGL on the transport of unloaded handguns.
2) it is inadvisable because the police and prosecutors don't follow the law.

If you disagree with #1, please provide a citation. You know I don't pretend to know every nuance of MA law. But this one seems pretty black and white. I don't see any problem pointing out the idiocy of this state in that the police and prosecutors don't follow their own God damned laws.

 

[dcmdon]

Okay, I'll play. If Don is wrong, where does Massachusetts law (and not just the FRB's silly website FAQ) deal with the transport in a vehicle of an unloaded handgun by the holder of an LTC-A?

The FRB's website somewhere does have FAQs stating that loaded and unloaded handguns must be under your direct control. I called the FRB and asked for a citation on the unloaded part and never got one.

- - - Updated - - -

Now what if the trunk is completely inaccessible from inside the car cabin?

There is some case law on this. I believe we are all in agreement that a trunk meets the requirement.

 

[RKG]

I bring my own lock box, and for good measure have one or two of the bunch of cable locks I've acquired over the years (in original cellophane and never used). Never had an issue.

 

[jfiore]

Remember a trigger or action lock does you no good for transport.

again, as someone mentioned, put them in your pants and technically you are carrying, under your control. This would be accepted I assume?

 

[szaino]

Now what if the trunk is completely inaccessible from inside the car cabin?

The inaccessibility is what makes it a trunk.

If you can just fold a seat down and reach in the trunk, you may have a problem.

 

[71montess]

Weird question. I just got my LTC unrestricted. I purchased two handguns. Got the good old 3 day hold period. My question is. When I go to pick these up. Can I walk out with them in the boxes in my trunk or do I need to put them in a locked container before I leave?

Is Fatnipples the name you put down ?

 

[szaino]

Show me the law.

The law you sighted does not deal with LTC-A transport of unloaded gun, only a loaded handgun. They deal with transport for LTC-B. I believe this was an over sight when they wrote the law. I will let the experts chime in on this regarding the case law.

So even if they forgot to cover LTC transport in this section, you are still incorrect in saying that there are no restrictions on the transport of an unloaded gun because Section 131(L) would still need to be complied with.

 

[EJFudd]

The law you cited does not deal with LTC-A transport of unloaded gun, only a loaded handgun. They deal with transport for LTC-B. I believe this was an oversight when they wrote the law.

No offense intended, but whether or not there was an oversight when they wrote the law is irrelevant. It is still a fact that there is no specific law governing the transport of an unloaded handgun by the holder of an LTC-A. Don is correct.

So even if they forgot to cover LTC transport in this section, you are still incorrect in saying that there are no restrictions on the transport of an unloaded gun because Section 131(L) would still need to be complied with.

The topic of this entire thread (and the point Don made) is transport. Storage is not transport.