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Kahr PM9 Looking for some insight?
- Thread starter IDPA Mike
- Start date
I like my Kahr PM9. It's light weight, has eaten everything I've fed it, is more accurate than I am, and packs a decent punch for its overall package size (especially if you're a denizen of the People's Anti-gun Republic). I'm not a big fan of Kahr's stock sights (2 dot config.) and will be replacing those soon. It does seem to get a little dirtier after a range session than my other guns, but it's pretty easy to clean.
The only negative I can find is this racking "problem" described in this YouTube video. He recommends getting a ProMag magazine. However, one could also solve that issue by carrying with one in the pipe. If I'm ever in the position where I need to pull my gun, the last thing I want to worry about is racking the slide. Additionally, over at the Kahr Talk forum, the members recommend the Wolff recoil and magazine springs with 5% extra power should you encounter those issues.
Overall, I give it a big thumbs up.
The only negative I can find is this racking "problem" described in this YouTube video. He recommends getting a ProMag magazine. However, one could also solve that issue by carrying with one in the pipe. If I'm ever in the position where I need to pull my gun, the last thing I want to worry about is racking the slide. Additionally, over at the Kahr Talk forum, the members recommend the Wolff recoil and magazine springs with 5% extra power should you encounter those issues.
Overall, I give it a big thumbs up.
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I carried a Glock-36 in 45 ACP for a while but could not conceal reliably at all times. After a long search I opted for the Kahr PM-9. My PM-9 has been totally reliable with a wide variety of bullet shapes and weights, readilly controlable, and surprisingly accurate for such a short barreled pistol - I can easilly place all 7 shots into a 3 inch group at 7 to 10 yards. It is my constant companion in a pocket holster.
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I find break-in is critical with the smaller Kahrs. Make sure 200+ rounds as advised feed and proceed with no issues. I had to get a new slide stop sent for one of my units from Kahr Arms as it was machined incorrectly and kept causing FTF's and lockups.
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Rockrivr1
NES Member
I agree with this statement. My PM9 was inconsistant at first and I thought I had a lemon. After readying about the break in period I did a full range session and dumped through the 200 rounds. After that she's been dead reliable. I replaced the sights with night sights and haven't looked back. I'd fully recommend this handgun to anyone.
I can only assume these little gems must be selling. I've been looking for a PM9 or MK9 and can't seem to locate either. I glad to see that the experiences with this gun are on the positive side. I will keep on searching, I'm bound to find one sooner or later.
Exactly, always carry with a round in the chamber, decent video though.
Does anyone carry without one in the hole? I don't think I'd feel safe if I had to rack the slide if TSHTF. Not sure if there would be a worse feeling than hearing a click when you really need a bang. I'd be better off carrying a sharp stick at that point.
Individualist
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I think my next is either going to be a PM9 or the P380 once a MA version is available. Looks like they have the CA legal version about ready to go. Should be getting close for MA.
Are you in New Hampshire? If so, just hunt one down on Gunbroker, there are plenty of them out there...decent prices too.
It's downright disturbing how many people I've run into that don't carry with a chambered round. Just talked with a guy today about his M&P compact, when he pulled it out to show me the gun, he dropped the mag & locked open the slide, nothing came outta that breech but air.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
If people aren't comfortable carrying a pistol with one in the chamber, perhaps they should move over to a wheelgun or rethink their decision to carry altogether.
I have a P9, which is essentially the same gun (a bit longer in the grip and barrel), that I carry regularly and have quite a few rounds through. I've even shot a couple of IDPA matches with it. The DAO trigger is long but light and very smooth, with little or no stacking. I find the gun very ergonomic and all controls easily reached without shifting my grip. I have a Novak rear and fiber optic front sight. Where the P9 is a great IWB gun (it absolutely disappears), it's a bit too long in the grip for normal pocket-carry. That's where the PM9 really shines. I opted for the P9 because when I bought it, there was no such thing as a PM9.
I have two problems with the youtube video linked. One, the whole "problem" that occurs when he carries an empty chamber. Aside from all the arguments against carrying an empty chamber, it's a simple fact the gun is not designed to be carried that way. They tell you that plainly in the manual. Yet, suddenly it's a "problem" with the gun. No, it's a problem (one of many) with his technique. Second, he said "ProMags are your solution." I've heard ProMags called many, many things before, but never a "solution." (Unless, of course, your problem is not enough malfunction-clearing training on the range. Then they're the perfect solution.)
I have two problems with the youtube video linked. One, the whole "problem" that occurs when he carries an empty chamber. Aside from all the arguments against carrying an empty chamber, it's a simple fact the gun is not designed to be carried that way. They tell you that plainly in the manual. Yet, suddenly it's a "problem" with the gun. No, it's a problem (one of many) with his technique. Second, he said "ProMags are your solution." I've heard ProMags called many, many things before, but never a "solution." (Unless, of course, your problem is not enough malfunction-clearing training on the range. Then they're the perfect solution.)
Rockrivr1
NES Member
It's downright disturbing how many people I've run into that don't carry with a chambered round. Just talked with a guy today about his M&P compact, when he pulled it out to show me the gun, he dropped the mag & locked open the slide, nothing came outta that breech but air.
If people aren't comfortable carrying a pistol with one in the chamber, perhaps they should move over to a wheelgun or rethink their decision to carry altogether.
I fully agree with this. If you ever need to use your carry gun, it's most likely due to something that just "HAPPENS" and happens immediately. This reminds me of the saying that's popular here about when the police are needed, they are only minutes away. Well, I think the same meaning works here. When you need your carry gun, using it is only 5-10 seconds away. If nothing goes wrong racking the slide that is. This can be said for any semi auto though.
I think people just don't trust that it will not go off. If you have a decent holster and finger discipline, you should have no problems what so ever. I pocket carry mine in a Desantis holster. Very rigid and comfortable to carry in my front pocket so I don't worry about the trigger getting pulled if I'm sitting down or moving around.
Twelve years ago I had a chance to shoot a Kahr K9 at a friends place in NH. The all-metal K9 was super slim, but still heavy enough to be very recoil manageable, and accurate. However, it was Kahr’s DAO action, (easily the smoothest I had ever experienced), that impressed most. Instantly, I lusted after one for warm weather carry. I was of course angry to learn that the Kahr could not be sold in the same Commonwealth where it is made due to the horrible chapter 180 MA gun laws that had just come into effect.
At that point, I started a short dialogue via email with the founder and chief engineer at Kahr arms, Kook Jin "Justin" Moon, (son of Unification Church founder Sun Myung Moon). I asked if Kahr would be making a MA compliant version of the K9. Moon replied "Why should I ruin my gun with an 8 lb trigger pull just to sell it in one state?" Unable to argue with that logic, I gave up on the idea of ever owning a Kahr, and went on, and to this day, with a full-sized S&W 910 regardless of the weather, (loose fitting over-sized T-shirts being the key).
The question this ramble leads to for me is this; what is a MA compliant Kahr like? The 7-plus pound trigger pull required by 180 is a crime (literally); a cynical, and purely political contrivance meant to run firearms manufacturers out of MA, (but then again I am preaching to the choir here). Are the Kahrs able to “cope” with this requirement, and still retain their standout smooth action? If I shot a MA compliant MP9, would I still be as impressed as I was 12 years ago? After all, I never lost the desire of having one for warm weather carry. Just like I have never stopped loving how former AG Tom Reilly had his political career trashed forever by his support for Chapter 180.
JR
At that point, I started a short dialogue via email with the founder and chief engineer at Kahr arms, Kook Jin "Justin" Moon, (son of Unification Church founder Sun Myung Moon). I asked if Kahr would be making a MA compliant version of the K9. Moon replied "Why should I ruin my gun with an 8 lb trigger pull just to sell it in one state?" Unable to argue with that logic, I gave up on the idea of ever owning a Kahr, and went on, and to this day, with a full-sized S&W 910 regardless of the weather, (loose fitting over-sized T-shirts being the key).
The question this ramble leads to for me is this; what is a MA compliant Kahr like? The 7-plus pound trigger pull required by 180 is a crime (literally); a cynical, and purely political contrivance meant to run firearms manufacturers out of MA, (but then again I am preaching to the choir here). Are the Kahrs able to “cope” with this requirement, and still retain their standout smooth action? If I shot a MA compliant MP9, would I still be as impressed as I was 12 years ago? After all, I never lost the desire of having one for warm weather carry. Just like I have never stopped loving how former AG Tom Reilly had his political career trashed forever by his support for Chapter 180.
JR
Rockrivr1
NES Member
There are no MA Compliant Kahr handguns still to this day. The ones you see people talk about in MA are typically bought on the used Massachusetts market for prices that equal new any place else. You see them pop up on the forum for sale every once in a while. I bought mine for a reasonable price from an FFL at the Marlboro Gun Show. Some people get lucky and find theirs, while other search and never find one.
dixidawg
NES Member
I think there are. They added a "loaded chamber indicator" and external safety:
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_9mm_pm.html
Rockrivr1
NES Member
Interesting. First I'm hearing about it. Guess they decided that this "one" state was finally worth it. Damn, that price is high though. Especially seeing you'll need a trigger job done once you get it.
It's not that hard to find a Kahr K9 in MA. In fact, Zero Hour Arms has one listed on their web site.
FWIW, you can get standard (6 lb) and reduced power (5 lb) striker springs from Wolff pretty cheap, and the swap is easy-peazy. You can do your own trigger job in just a few minutes. Doesn't make the gun any cheaper, but at least you don't have to send it out again.
In fact, there is a K9 for sale here in our classified: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/101338-WTS-Kahr-K-9-and-Kahr-K-40
The PM9 is a sweet gun I think the only thing that is smaller in a 9mm is the Rohrbaugh R9 which is also a nice piece. The R9 is also more money and forget about finding one in MA. I have the MA version of the PM9 the main difference in the two models are the safety and loaded chamber indicator. The safety is a bit strange to operate because you slide it up to shut it off. I don't carry with the safety on but you still have to practice the motion to disengage it. It is a very accurate gun and very reliable but it is overpriced. But if you want it small in MA there are not to many other choices in a 9mm.
pm9 carry
It is the gun you will take with you . I have 225 rounds through mine ,no problems
does not like to go battery with a full mag and a hand rack.
that would be my only issue. Ijust use the slide release and it works fine
It does not have a bad recoil but does move around in your hand at dischsrge
I installed a houge slip on small solved the problem .Trigger is very smooth
and the gun will handle plus p ammo
I rate it 9 out of ten .And it is Ma complient.
It is the gun you will take with you . I have 225 rounds through mine ,no problems
does not like to go battery with a full mag and a hand rack.
that would be my only issue. Ijust use the slide release and it works fine
It does not have a bad recoil but does move around in your hand at dischsrge
I installed a houge slip on small solved the problem .Trigger is very smooth
and the gun will handle plus p ammo
I rate it 9 out of ten .And it is Ma complient.
Received my PM9 about two months ago and have approx. 800 rounds through it with no problems. Very reliable and very, very accurate with a wide variety of ammo. I did install a CTL but returned it as the engagement "button", IMO, interferred with the grip and handling. In addition it "bit" my trigger finger when fired with the ridges that attachd to the trigger guard... it was actually painful. I returned it and CTL customer service was great. I just ordered the Armalaser and hope this works well. I would highly recommend this 9mm, as it is reliable, accurate, and conceals incredibly well. The only downsas ide is the price, it is a bit overpriced, but IMO there is nothing quite like it. Let's put it this way, this is a one time purchase for me in this category. Good luck, JohnnyC
I always carry with one in the chamber - to me it is senseless to carrry and have to rack the slide in order to get off the first round. I only will carry a semi auto without any external sageties or hammer. I hope the time never comes that I have to use it but if I do I do not want to remember removing a thumb safety or having a hammer snag on my clothing.
So I picked my PM9 up on Saturday, and put about 175 rounds through it over the weekend. The only issue I had was failure to feed four times on the Winchester 9mm 115gr Wally World bulk pack. 25 rounds of Hornady TAP 147gr had no issues. Accuracy was great for a little 3" barrel IMO, wish I could say the same for me... big hands and long trigger pull (which I am not used to) had me pulling rounds off target a little too often. I also found the extra safety they put on there to be a problem if you don't get a good grip on the weapon, it took a little chunk of my skin and left a bruise on my first thumb knuckle. I was able to adjust once aware of it, but still not perfect. I may have to check out a grip as crjs51 points out to help keep it from moving around on me with my hands.
I also let my friends wife shoot it (first time shooting for her), but she seemed to have no trouble putting me in my place and out shooting me handily. Beginners luck, right? (She also shot 1 round from my SIG 1911, and wasn't bad with that either, even though it was a stretch for her small hands). She was afraid of guns, for all the usual reasons, but I think I helped to temper that with a little more knowledge and respect. She still has some fear of them, but the door has been opened.
Overall, I am still impressed with the weapon and plan to get a lot more practice in to smooth out my rough spots with it. The primary concern I have is around the failure to feeds. Anyone else have similar experiences? Just crappy Winchester?
I also let my friends wife shoot it (first time shooting for her), but she seemed to have no trouble putting me in my place and out shooting me handily. Beginners luck, right? (She also shot 1 round from my SIG 1911, and wasn't bad with that either, even though it was a stretch for her small hands). She was afraid of guns, for all the usual reasons, but I think I helped to temper that with a little more knowledge and respect. She still has some fear of them, but the door has been opened.
Overall, I am still impressed with the weapon and plan to get a lot more practice in to smooth out my rough spots with it. The primary concern I have is around the failure to feeds. Anyone else have similar experiences? Just crappy Winchester?
Kahr recommends a 200 round break-in, so your experience doesn't sound out of place. Were the FTF's while shooting, or while charging the weapon by racking the slide. Due to the design of the magazine, Kahr recommends using the slide release, and even states such in the manual. This throws some people who are used to charging a full weapon by racking the slide.
The failure to feeds were all from firing. I had no issues with initial loading. I use slide release, no racking. The rounds appeared to jam up against the ramp, with the bullet nose being pointed down in relation to the rear of the round. I dropped the mag and the round would remain with the mag, with the slide releasing. I would then rack, re-seat the round in the mag and re-load and hit the slide release. No apparent damage or anything to the rounds that got caught up.
