Is this a tactic to get around the new rules in Connecticut?

[jamesb]

So I took the NRA course, have everything filled out and ready to go (except fingerprints), so when I called my local PD about fingerprinting for the temporary permit they said I need to make an appointment. I questioned why an appointment for fingerprints, but it turns out it is also to meet with (who I assume is) the Chief. I asked why and she said it is for him to go over the application with you and make sure you have everything. I am thinking it is truely an "interview" and they are trying to beat around the bush as they can't really require an interview.

I don't mind the waiting (which the next available appt was last week in April). It just comes across that they are doing this to make good citizens wait as long as they can because they don't want to give out permits or put it off as much as possible.

It seems to me that it is a way to get around the state's new rule stating towns can't ask for anything more than the state requires. I am assuming he is going to ask the usual stuff (i.e. Why do you want a carry permit?, etc.)

What is your take on this? Am I seeing this for what it is or just over thinking it? For the record, I have nothing to hide and am not worried he will find me unfit or anything. I just don't understand the need for all this when I am ready to turn in everything right now and they are not supposed to do interviews in the first place, at least from what I read.

 

[bullseye]

Let him know you will be happy to meet with him and that your attorney would like to sit in on the meeting. Lets see how fast you can get fingerprinted.

 

[jamesb]

In my other thread, Bucketduder posted:

Recently all Issuing Authority's in CT were sent a letter telling them they can no longer add ANYTHING to the application process...No references, no Interviews,no credit checks, nothing.. And if they deny you for this reason you get an immediate hearing...Most towns were not doing this anyways...Here is a link to the PDF and audio

http://www.ct.gov/bfpe/cwp/view.asp?a=3878&Q=454666

The process is

1. Fill out app
2. Bring app and 2 checks to PD/First Selectmen.
3. They call you to come pick up temp permit. (depending where you are it could be 1 week or 8 or maybe more)
4. You go to state police and get State Permit (another check).
5. You go buy lots of guns!!!

It seems to me like I shouldn't have to wait two months to sit down to "go over" my application with anyone. I should be able to just hand it all in. I have the app, birth certificate, checkbook ready, and just need the fingerprints. My dad has an appointment a week prior to mine so he thinks this is odd as well.

If this was the standard practice, I wouldn't even think twice about this and would fully understand it. The fact that they arn't supposed to do it is what is eating at me.

Besides the attorney idea, is there anything else I can do?

 

[terraformer]

Let him know you will be happy to meet with him and that your attorney would like to sit in on the meeting. Lets see how fast you can get fingerprinted.

This is the best advice you will get. This is an interview, no doubt. Unlike in MA however, there is nothing saying they can do it. As such, you are throwing away your 4th and 5th amendment rights for no gain and a lot of potential loss. In other words, there is no upside and lots of downside to this. You will want to contact the State Attorneys General's office first, and advise them this is going on. Also, there is some form of public safety office that admins the permits. You will want to contact them too.

 

[rattletrap1970]

Way back when I got my pistol permit in 1988, I was 18. I couldn't buy a pistol till I was 21, but I could get the permit. Weird, I know.
Well, it seemed like it was taking a long time to get the permit (This was in Southington CT). I was talking to my lawyer, whom I had on retainer for other business and told him about the oddly long wait. He made a phone call to the PD and when he got off the phone he said to go down and pick it up, they would have it ready. So, I'm not sure there were any shenanigans but it sure seemed like it lit a fire under their ass.

 

[jamesb]

I am going to have to talk to my dad and see what he wants to do from here. Not sure if he is going to want to go the attorney route though.

 

[terraformer]

At the very least, you should contact the AGs office and the public safety office in charge of permits.

 

[richc]

At the age of 18 you had an attorney on retainer???

Way back when I got my pistol permit in 1988, I was 18. I couldn't buy a pistol till I was 21, but I could get the permit. Weird, I know.
Well, it seemed like it was taking a long time to get the permit (This was in Southington CT). I was talking to my lawyer, whom I had on retainer for other business and told him about the oddly long wait. He made a phone call to the PD and when he got off the phone he said to go down and pick it up, they would have it ready. So, I'm not sure there were any shenanigans but it sure seemed like it lit a fire under their ass.

 

[buketduder]

If they ask why you want it say All Lawful Purposes, unless they have reason to believe otherwise they cannot demand you tell them anything else...What a BS process down there..I never met with anyone to get my permit..and I know people from 15-20 towns that did not either..April?? That would not fly with me. I would get fingerprinted in another town, bring them the app..if they want to deny me or not accept it..fine. Appeal and under the new BPFE procedure you will get an immediate hearing..and they WILL issue you a permit...you can also contact a lawyer if you want

 

[jcr]

called my local PD about fingerprinting for the temporary permit they said I need to make an appointment...(which the next available appt was last week in April[8 wks hence).

When those cops make a criminal arrest, do they have to wait 2 months for an appointment to take fingerprints and book them?

 

[jamesb]

I appreciate the help guys. I understand about waiting due to the background check, but 2 months to get printed is nuts. I might try calling Orange, or Stratford and explain that in my town I have to wait 2 months for the next available appointment and see if they can print me instead. My dad is hopefully calling our town PD today to explain that he is not happy with this and see where it goes from there.

 

[BossHarley]

I would recommend just going down to the PD and seeing if you can get printed - they can only say no.

I had a lot of issues with mine as well. We only have 2 resident troopers, and 1 part time clerk. They were very polite, but kept giving me the run around for when I could come down and get printed etc. I kept at it, and it turned out that neither of the troopers had any idea what to do, and the clerk was out on maternity leave - wouldn't be back for 2 months.(after about a 8 week delay already). I ended up going down there and asking what needed to be done. basically fingerprinted and a form typed out - neither trooper 'knew' how to type (this was only 5 y ago - so not before the computer age....). So I sat down and typed the form, they printed me and I had my permit nice and quick after that. Basically they had no issue with my getting my permit, just were not going to go out of their was to process it - being there made all the difference.

 

[jamesb]

Thanks for that Boss.

My issue is that the Milford PD site states that "Fingerprinting is done in the Records Division on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 1-3:30PM; NO APPOINTMENT IS NECESSARY" (it says that verbatim). I just called and got the main dispatcher who was an Officer and asked about getting fingerprinted and he stated the same thing, just didn't know the fee involved. I am making it a point to not mention the pistol permit. I am going to call again tomorrorw and speak with somebody in records as if I just wanted to get printed to be in the system as I do... but not mention anything about the pistol permit app. My guess is that they are going to tell me the same thing as my first sentance states yet again.

At least at that time I will know they are being biased towards people going for their pistol permit. They already have my name in the appointment book, but I was considering going down there, getting printed, and then after that make it a point to say I want to drop off my pistol permit application after the fact.

I am not out to cheat or lie to do this, it just boggles my mind that they can do this when I could go a few towns over and already have everything submitted.

I figure that if the records division confirms that for prints, I just need to stop by during the posted hours and get it done. I am going to ask why I am told I need to meet with an Chief/Officer before I can submit my permit application, considering the state ruled that towns can no longer require anything more than the state does which means as a citizen i should be able to get printed during the scheduled hours I was told and hand it all in.

Does that seem OK? I am not trying to set myself up for any issues of course.

 

[jamesb]

I went to the DPS site and submittend an Inquiry with the state police. I am not trying to create a problem, but it just doesn't seem fair for them to do this. This is what I said:

"Recently, I have completed my NRA Basic Pistol Safety course and am trying to apply for my temporary state permit in Milford, my town of residence. The Milford police department is telling me that I need to make an appointment (which I have done) with the Chief/Officer to "go over" my application and when I am there I will have my fingerprints taken as well.

My inquiry is that the next available appointment is not until April 22nd, 2010. After making my appointment, I recently found out that the Board of Firearms Permit Examiners ruled on September 28, 2009 on a petition concerning applications that towns can no longer require anything more than the state requires when submitting a pistol permit application which I understand to include letters of reference, interviews, and personal resumes. A letter supposedly went out to all local Police Deptartments informing them of this.

The person I spoke to this morning, Tuesday, March 2nd in the Milford PD Records Department told me that in order to submit my pistol permit application I need to meet with the Chief to "go over" my application and make sure everything is there. To me, this seems like it is an interview and they are just being cautious about saying interview as they are no longer allowed to require this. Also, their website states that residents of Milford can get finger printed with "No Appointment Necessary" on "Tuesdays and Thursdays between 1pm - 3:30pm".

I spoke with a dispatcher tonight, Tuesday, March 2nd and he confirmed that for prints I need to arrive during the hours previously mentioned, but he wasn't sure of the associated cost. When I bring up the permit I am told I need an appointment.

I do not understand why, as a resident of Milford, they will not let me go to the police department during the allotted hours, get fingerprinted, pay the associated costs and submit my temporary state pistol permit application WITHOUT an appointment with the police chief. It is forcing me to take a personal day off of work to get this done, as well as an inconvience to me for the fact that I am all set to submit my application this very day. To me, this seems like like they are being biased towards somebody looking to submit a pistol permit applicaton in comparrison to somebody just looking to have their prints done. I look forward to hearing back from you as soon as possible on this matter. Can you please let me know what I can do from here in order to submit my application in a timely manner, as waiting two months to be allowed to get my fingerprints done and a sit down with the Chief does not seem timely in the least.

Sincerley,

XXXXXX

 

[LKB3rd]

IANAL (iamnotalwyer)
They are not allowed/supposed to deny your permit based on anything except the stuff on the green dps form (when I did it, it was green)...
I'd be curious what the purpose of the meeting was too.. and there's one surefire way to find out

 

[cricco]

I have no idea why there is a two month wait for the appointment, but quite often, people will omit things from an application due to embarassment, or because they "didn't think something that old applied", or even because they just forgot that they were arrested for an open container in 1969. Since an omission could result in an automatic disqualification, perhaps the Chief wants to go over the application with you to make sure that everything is in order. There are also those who, despite the fact that they have no criminal record, will show up for such a meeting stinking of booze, or weed. I really wouldn't worry too much about the interview.

 

[jamesb]

It isn't that I am worried about the interview, I just don't want to wait 2 months for it when I am not legally required to do it in the first place. If I could get an appointment this week or next week it wouldn't bother me as much. It still shouldn't need to happen but I would probably not be as annoyed about it. I just want a fair shot and in my opinion, waiting 8 weeks to just meet and get printed isn't fair or reasonable when plenty of other people in other towns would have been able to submit everything today if they chose to. I should be able to bring the app, get printed, pay fees and leave....this week. Not in 8 weeks BEFORE I even can apply for the temporary permit.

 

[cricco]

It isn't that I am worried about the interview, I just don't want to wait 2 months for it when I am not legally required to do it in the first place. If I could get an appointment this week or next week it wouldn't bother me as much. It still shouldn't need to happen but I would probably not be as annoyed about it. I just want a fair shot and in my opinion, waiting 8 weeks to just meet and get printed isn't fair or reasonable when plenty of other people in other towns would have been able to submit everything today if they chose to. I should be able to bring the app, get printed, pay fees and leave....this week. Not in 8 weeks BEFORE I even can apply for the temporary permit.

I agree with that.

 

[Mike_Diako]

If they are giving you such a run around then visit one of the state police barracks to get printed and submit your application.

Troop C – Tolland Tel. (860) 896-3271 Troop G – Bridgeport Tel. (203) 696-2532
1320 Tolland Stage Road 149 Prospect Street
Tolland, CT 06084 Bridgeport, CT 06604 (closed Monday)

1st & 3rd Tues. of the Month, 8:30 am-12:00pm & 12:30-4:00pm T-W-F-S, 8-12 & 12:30-4 pm Thurs. 11-1:30 &2-7pm

Troop E – Montville Tel.: (860) 848-6539 Troop L – Litchfield Tel.: (860) 626-7914
I-395 N (between exits 79 & 79A) 452 Bantam Road
Montville, CT 06382 Litchfield, CT 06759

2nd & 4th Monday of the month, 8:30 am-12:00 & 12:30-4 pm 1st & 3rd Monday of the month, 8:30-1200 & 12:30-4 pm

Troop D – Danielson
55 Westcott Road
Danielson, Ct 06239
3rd Saturday of every month, 9 am – 3 pm. Please call Headquarters with questions.

http://www.ct.gov/dps/cwp/view.asp?a=2158&q=294502

 

[jamesb]

I confirmed yet again this morning that any resident doesn't need an appointment for prints, but they also mentioned that you need to supply your fingerprint cards (i.e. from an employer). My dad is calling the Officer he is supposed to meet with and see what is up with this.

 

[dcmdon]

I posted something about this yesterday.

Call your local state police barracks. Tell them you would like to get printed for a pistol permit and your local pd is backed up. The guys at troop F offered this to me.

Don

 

[jamesb]

Didn't think to word it like that. I will try that out and see what happens. Thanks.

 

[jamesb]

Just got off the phone with State police as well as DPS in Middletown and said that my local PD is backlogged and not letting me get prints done for 2 months. They both said I can do my prints there, it is $15, and then submit everything to my town. I am going to try and go Monday morning to get them and then go right to PD to drop it all off.

If I have everything required with my app, they can not not accept my application correct? I have a feeling they are going to tell me I need the appointment still.

 

[Realtor MA]

I would seek advice from some of the more experienced members of this forum before you run down to your local pd with a set of finger print cards. I can see a few scenarios where that might offend them(justified or not)

 

[dcmdon]

Just got off the phone with State police as well as DPS in Middletown and said that my local PD is backlogged and not letting me get prints done for 2 months. They both said I can do my prints there, it is $15, and then submit everything to my town. I am going to try and go Monday morning to get them and then go right to PD to drop it all off.

If I have everything required with my app, they can not not accept my application correct? I have a feeling they are going to tell me I need the appointment still.

By law, they must accept your application. That doesn't mean they will. If they say they still need to talk to you and you refuse, you can take it to the board of firearms examiners, where you will win. That will take over a year.

So . . do you want to make a point? Or do you just want your pistol permit.

I'm thinking out loud here, but I wonder if mailing it in would be a good way to do it?

Don
p.s. My state police were not going to charge anything to fingerprint my wife.

 

[buketduder]

It might not take a year..If they deny you, you can get an immediate hearing if it has to do with the recent ruling by the board.

 

[jamesb]

I understand that they will probably be annoyed, but in all honesty. I am doing nothing wrong. I am filling out all the forms, supplying all the required documents, fingerprints and checks. I am just bypassing the "meeting" that shouldn't be needed in the first place. If it was a State required meeting for all permit applicants in all towns I would wait for the meeting without issue. If towns were allowed to still require their own things then I would also have no issue with it. The fact that it isn't required, not allowed, and they are still trying to do it to force us to wait even longer to apply for the permit is what irks me. When I go to get fingerprints at DPS, I will talk to the headquarters about what they doing and see if I just need to deal with it or maybe I will be able to submit everything in Middletown and avoid the hassle that I am bound to go through.

A guy that took the course with me is already applying without issue. Why should it be different for me because I live in a different town?

 

[BossHarley]

I doubt that Middletown will take your application, but they should do the prints for you. The process requires (my understanding) that the local PD give you a temporary permit, that you then take to the DPS and get the state permit. Different towns definitely process in different speeds - and there is not much you can do about that.

I personally wouldn't mention any 'issues', just show up at the Milford PD with your fingerprint card from DPS and all other paperwork. Say you want to submit your application. They should take it without a problem, and if you haven't made any errors you should be set - of course will still have to wait for them to process the application....

 

[Chantry]

If you think Milford PD is being intentionally difficult, it might not be a bad idea to get notarized copies of everything you submit.

 

[LKB3rd]

It isn't that I am worried about the interview, I just don't want to wait 2 months for it when I am not legally required to do it in the first place. If I could get an appointment this week or next week it wouldn't bother me as much. It still shouldn't need to happen but I would probably not be as annoyed about it. I just want a fair shot and in my opinion, waiting 8 weeks to just meet and get printed isn't fair or reasonable when plenty of other people in other towns would have been able to submit everything today if they chose to. I should be able to bring the app, get printed, pay fees and leave....this week. Not in 8 weeks BEFORE I even can apply for the temporary permit.

I apologize, I missed the part about the 2 month wait, assuming that means two MORE months after that to get the permit. That is not following their licensing rules, as far as I am aware. It's required for them to process it start to finish in 8 weeks or less. Some towns routinely take longer, some less. My town took I think 5 or 6 weeks.
Maybe ask to get an earlier appointment. You could "remind" them of the 8 week turnaround requirement.