Is a pistol grip shotgun now a pistol?

[billmelater]

A dealer in NH has told me that he must now enter shotguns that come to him with a pistol grip installed as "Other Firearm" in question #18 on form 4473. Another dealer says not true.
Reading the explanation to question 18 on the form makes it clear as mud to me.
I didn't think to ask if, being a NH dealer, he'd have to transfer say, a used Mossberg 500 with pistol grip installed, to a MA dealer for sale to a MA resident on an FA-10, like he would a pistol or revolver. (I once knew a guy in MA who said he bought one directly from a NH dealer a couple of years ago, and didn't know what the 4473 said.)
Has anyone else come across this?

 

[drgrant]

BATFE has become a bunch of jerks when it comes to PGO shotguns, saying that they must transfer using the same guidelines as handguns, which is a crock of crap, but those are the rules apparently... there is this little chunk of US code somewhere which differentiates PGO shotguns from regular shotguns/rifles.

Note that a PGO shotgun is different from a shotgun that has a real stock and a pistol grip. PGO = Pistol Grip Only. A shotgun like a Remington 870 Max would still transfer as
a regular shotgun.

ETA: Case in point- that kid that shot up the mall in Utah, the dealer that sold him the shotgun got in trouble because it was a PGO shotgun and he was under 21, and apparently you can't sell a PGO shotgun to someone under 21 under fed law... dumb and obnoxious, but that's the law apparently.

-Mike

 

[Fooped]

Sounds "wicked wrong" to me, but IANAL.

 

[billmelater]

Note that a PGO shotgun is different from a shotgun that has a real stock and a pistol grip. PGO = Pistol Grip Only.

-Mike

OK, so the Mariners and Persuaders or whatever you can swap pistol grips for regular shoulder stocks on are not Pistol Grip Only. Where do you find these definitions?

 

[LoginName]

OK, so the Mariners and Persuaders or whatever you can swap pistol grips for regular shoulder stocks on are not Pistol Grip Only. Where do you find these definitions?

Only cites I know of is a couple of 10 year old ATF newsletters...

i.Shotgunsl. with pistol grips attached
In the last ATF Newsletter (August 1998) an
article stated shotguns with pistol grips and no
shoulder stocks attached were restricted to
persons 21 years of age or older if being sold by a
Federal firearms licensee. This requirement is
specified in 27 CFR § 178.99(b) and 18 U.S.C.
922(b)(1) (www.atf.treas.gov/core/regulations/
27cfr178.html), which states that if the firearm to
be transferred is is other than a rifle or shotgunl

then the purchaser must be 21 years of age. The
definition of a shotgun under the GCA [18 U.S.C.
§ 921(a)(5)] is a weapon ieintended to be fired
from the shoulder.ld With the pistol grip in lieu of
the shoulder stock, this weapon is not designed to
be fired from the shoulder, and therefore is not a
shotgun.
Questions have been raised about those firearms
that are supplied with both a pistol grip and a
shoulder stock. If the firearm is sold with the
shoulder stock then the firearm is intended to be
fired from the shoulder and would be considered a
shotgun. The shoulder stock does not necessarily
have to be attached at the time. Persons 18 years
of age or older may purchase those firearms from
licensees.
Other questions raised pertain to entries made in
the licensee™s required records as to firearm
i.typelI if not shotgun. These entries may indicate
the firearm type simply as Title I.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/newsletter/ffl0299.pdf

AGE RESTRICTION REMINDER
Licensees are reminded that certain commercially
produced “shotguns” do not fall within the
definition of shotgun under the GCA. Firearms
such as the Mossberg Model 500 Camper,
Persuader 500 and all other makes and models,
which come equipped with a pistol grip in place
of the butt stock, are not shotguns under the GCA.
Therefore, they cannot be sold or delivered by a
licensee to any person less than 21 years of age.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/newsletter/ffl0898.pdf

 

[vellnueve]

It's not a pistol, but it no longer falls under the same rules for interstate transfers as shotguns and rifles.

 

[gerrycaruso]

I have a 590A1 with a pistol grip and 14" bbl. It is classified by the ATF as an AOW (any other weapon). This only applies to shotguns with a bbl of less than 18" and a pistol grip. It must have been mfg. in this configuration. It can not ever have had a butt stock attached, otherwise it would be a "short barreled shotgun".