Input of APEX J-frame Duty/Carry Spring Kit.

[Retired-LEO]

https://www.apextactical.com/j-frame-duty-carry-spring-kit

I am looking for input from NES members that have used or had experience with the APEX J-frame Duty/Carry Spring Kit.

Yes I have looked on other forums and on websites for reviews, on this spring kit.

However I have a higher respect for the NES community and trust the members more than "unknowns" on other sites.

Your time and input is appreciated.

***UPDATE 06/21/23***

I installed the APEX J-Frame Duty/Carry Kit (The video above, made it so easy to understand.

I didn't have a Rebound Spring Tool (so I used a ball point pen, as other videos showed).

The pull weight went from OVER 12lbs, to 8lbs 2oz

Thank You to ALL that commented, on this post.

 

[MaxStravinsky]

I have installed several - it's easy and it really makes a positive difference in the trigger.
Just be careful not to lose any of the little pieces.

 

[s&w3913]

You can use a "automotive" pick tool to install the spring/remove the rebound slide spring.

I don't have any spring kits in my carry revolvers, just personal choice. I have however disassembled my revolvers for reblueing etc.

 

[Retired-LEO]

I'm more concerned with reliability (light primer strikes) as opposed to the difficulty of the installation.

 

[MaxStravinsky]

Never had a single light primer strike. I have at least a 1,000 rounds through my 638.

 

[p..]

I used an Apex Duty Carry kit in a 442, and went back to stock springs after several light primer strikes on CCI500 primers.

I did run a test before swapping back to S&W parts, and had no light primer strikes with that kit on 100 rounds primed with Winchester small pistol primers.

 

[Sparkey]

I had one in a 642 s&w with no issues with multiple brands of factory ammo. Made a big difference in my hooting of that gun too.

 

[wmass]

My 360j has had the apex kit for around 3 years now. I have never had an issue with light primer strikes. It has seen multiple brands of ammo due to supply issues as well as my own home rolled. That said, I don’t have a 1000 rounds through it. It has a couple hundred. It’s a light little bastard so it’s carried a lot and shot little. I wouldn’t have a J or any other S&W (non performance center) revolver without it.

 

[LuvToGoFast]

This for my 642

Never had a single light primer strike. I have at least a 1,000 rounds through my 638.

 

[Billy2]

I love them, never a single problem.

 

[BTSDOG]

The kit i put in my 360pd came with a slightly lighter firing pin spring and an extended firing pin. No issues so far......

 

[p..]

I used an Apex Duty Carry kit in a 442, and went back to stock springs after several light primer strikes on CCI500 primers.

I did run a test before swapping back to S&W parts, and had no light primer strikes with that kit on 100 rounds primed with Winchester small pistol primers.

For a frame of reference, this is after about 1500 rounds, mostly reloads with CCI500 primers. Winchester primers, no problem. CCI500... too many light strikes. So I went back to stock springs and now it eats everything.

It did not occur to me to check the firing pin protrusion.

 

[MaxStravinsky]

I never shoot reloads, maybe that's why I never had a. problem.

 

[G4Y4HK]

If you ever had to use your snubby in self defense and the DA finds out you 'modified the trigger your gun was designed with from the factory' to a "hair trigger", wouldn't a jury of non gun owners think you're itching to kill?

 

[pcgod]

I tried one of these kits. IIRC, the firing pin was pointed and yes no issues with light primer strikes. Honestly, it works. I have worked on triggers and got them to the same point and trust them more but that is just me. I have a model 36 ...3 lb single action pull and beautiful double action stroke. Note: I inherited the gun and I was told that it was factory. Classic S+W great trigger.

 

[Retired-LEO]

I never shoot reloads, maybe that's why I never had a. problem.

I likely would not shoot reloads in my 442 either.

 

[Atlas]

I’ve put one in my 642 several years ago, never had a problem but only shoot factory ammo with it. It’s lighter and smoother than stock but not even close to a hair trigger.

 

[fshalor]

My 637 has such a good trigger stock that I wouldn't touch it. Just not worth it, IMHO. I would avoid mods. Particularly if you have a J-frame which has the silly lock. I have heard that removing the lock system is needed to ensure some aftermarket spring kits are happy.

I'm about 3k in rounds through a stock lightly us d 637, and the darn thing just wants to be a range toy even though it's short and light.

Thanks @Ultrarunner . Literally the best purchase I made in the last decade.

 

[ToddDubya]

There's another spring you can use that makes a huge difference. D spring? I think it's for another gun but it works like a champ in the 442/642.

Price wise it could be a negligible savings, I honestly don't remember but if there was a flinty option, I took it.

Edit: I was corrected. The D spring is for the Beretta 92, not the 442/642.

 

[M1911]

I haven’t installed that spring kit, but I installed a different one on j-frames without issues. While you have the gun opened up, go ahead and polish rhe rebound slide. But my j-frames were before MIM parts and I hear some of the rebound slides are now MIM and very soft.

 

[M1911]

If you ever had to use your snubby in self defense and the DA finds out you 'modified the trigger your gun was designed with from the factory' to a "hair trigger", wouldn't a jury of non gun owners think you're itching to kill?

I’ve modified or had modified the trigger on every one of my carry guns.

 

[Retired-LEO]

My 637 has such a good trigger stock that I wouldn't touch it. Just not worth it, IMHO. I would avoid mods. Particularly if you have a J-frame which has the silly lock. I have heard that removing the lock system is needed to ensure some aftermarket spring kits are happy.

I'm about 3k in rounds through a stock lightly us d 637, and the darn thing just wants to be a range toy even though it's short and light.

Thanks @Ultrarunner . Literally the best purchase I made in the last decade.

My S&W 442 is their no lock version (not performance center); just without lock.

 

[eisenhow]

There's another spring you can use that makes a huge difference. D spring? I think it's for another gun but it works like a champ in the 442/642.

Price wise it could be a negligible savings, I honestly don't remember but if there was a flinty option, I took it.

You’re thinking of the beretta 92.

I have the APEX kit in my Heller 442. Never any issues with my reloads or Speer gold dot short barrel.

 

[ToddDubya]

You’re thinking of the beretta 92.

I have the APEX kit in my Heller 442. Never any issues with my reloads or Speer gold dot short barrel.

You're right. I must have actually bought the proper thing for the 642 then. Whatever it was, it was worth it.

 

[ToddDubya]

That video looks like how I remember it going, right down to tapping the frame with the screwdriver handle to remove the side plate. I remember it being as easy as he showed.

 

[milktree]

If you ever had to use your snubby in self defense and the DA finds out you 'modified the trigger your gun was designed with from the factory' to a "hair trigger", wouldn't a jury of non gun owners think you're itching to kill?

I keep hearing this nonsense, and every time I think, "you need to get some adult diapers with all the pants-shitting you must do"

Has there ever been a case, ever, of someone getting in more trouble because they modified their gun like this? Ever?

The guts of any case would be about pointing the gun at someone and shooting them, not if you polished a sear. How the hell would the prosecutor even know?

 

[G4Y4HK]

I keep hearing this nonsense, and every time I think, "you need to get some adult diapers with all the pants-shitting you must do"

Has there ever been a case, ever, of someone getting in more trouble because they modified their gun like this? Ever?

The guts of any case would be about pointing the gun at someone and shooting them, not if you polished a sear. How the hell would the prosecutor even know?

I don't buy into it much either but a lot of LTC instructors do push that fact you *might* run into more drama than you need to if you're ever involved in a DGU.

 

[milktree]

I don't buy into it much either but a lot of LTC instructors do push that fact you *might* run into more drama than you need to if you're ever involved in a DGU.

The advice is probably sound, but not for the reason of lawyers and prosecutors vilifying you.

The best reason I can think of to not muck with your carry gun is to avoid the risk of f***ing it up and having a ND/AD when under emotional/physical stress.

i.e.: not because some lawyer is going to make you out to be an extra bad person, but because stress makes us lose a lot of motor control and decision making ability, and you don't want the gun to go "bang" accidentally as a result of a too-light trigger. There's a reason military guns don't come with match grade triggers.

 

[Retired-LEO]

***UPDATE to the original post above - 06/21/23***

I installed the APEX J-Frame Duty/Carry Kit (The video in the starting post, made it so easy to understand.

I didn't have a Rebound Spring Tool (so I used a ball point pen, as other videos showed use).

The pull weight went from OVER >12lbs, to 8lbs 2oz

Thank You to ALL that commented, on this post.

 

[kalash]

If you ever had to use your snubby in self defense and the DA finds out you 'modified the trigger your gun was designed with from the factory' to a "hair trigger", wouldn't a jury of non gun owners think you're itching to kill?

An 8lbs trigger is pretty heavy, not even close to a "hair trigger".

I keep hearing this nonsense, and every time I think, "you need to get some adult diapers with all the pants-shitting you must do"

Has there ever been a case, ever, of someone getting in more trouble because they modified their gun like this? Ever?

The guts of any case would be about pointing the gun at someone and shooting them, not if you polished a sear. How the hell would the prosecutor even know?

Yes, there has. I came across a list on Reddit once, copying from there:

Yes. Several. Some that were used *for the defendant* and some that were used *against the defendant.*

\---

Google Scholar is a really good resource for finding out certain relevant cases. Have found some interesting things on: "customization," labels/names of ammos being used, hollowpoints being constantly abused, etc.

So, generally it's allowed as expert testimony for someone to speak to if the trigger was modified, but primarily a hair trigger. **In Vouldrie v. Alabama (1980)** they discussed **if the jury could "test fire a weapon" that was the result of a negligent discharge / murder trial to see if it was a hair trigger and that was denied.** Expert testimony was ruled to be sufficient. [https://scholar.google.com/scholar\...69&q=hair+trigger+shooting&hl=en&as_sdt=6,31)

Specifically for self-defense where it went wrong: **New York v. Magliato (1986)** is probably the most concerning. The defendant described a single action revolver as a hair-trigger (4.5 lbs btw) and expert-testimony agreed. This was used to describe the weapon as "readily capable of causing death." **Magliato was sentenced to manslaughter initially by the jury and only then years later through appeal was overturned.** [https://scholar.google.com/scholar\...=self-defense+hair+trigger&hl=en&as_sdt=6,31)

Some other cases I found in past research:

**State Farm v Partridge**: Filing the trigger mechanism created an exponentially dangerous weapon and insurance sued stating they couldn't cover that. Was an insurance-related outcome. "Prior to the date of the accident, Partridge filed the trigger mechanism of his pistol to lighten the trigger pull so that the gun would have "hair trigger action"; **the trial court specifically found this modification of the gun to be a negligent act,** creating an exceptionally dangerous weapon." [https://scholar.google.com/scholar\...10&q=hair+trigger+shooting&hl=en&as_sdt=6,31)

Chinn v. Mississippi (2007). Expert testimony was used to say it was NOT a hair trigger in this incident. Hair trigger was defined as less than 2 lbs. [https://scholar.google.com/scholar\...44&q=hair+trigger+shooting&hl=en&as_sdt=6,31)

Another:

[https://scholar.google.com/scholar\...51&q=hair+trigger+shooting&hl=en&as_sdt=6,31)

"Standing in stark contrast to this testimony is defendant's "hair trigger" remark. That prior utterance tends to prove that defendant was present in the room when the decedent was killed and that defendant rather than Williams possessed and discharged the weapon. **Although the "hair trigger" statement may not directly conflict with defendant's trial testimony, it does tend to establish a differing version of the facts. Under seasoned impeachment principles, then, defendant's comment was properly used to affect his credibility.**"

Expert testimony to assess a firearm was NOT a hair trigger: [https://scholar.google.com/scholar\...44&q=hair+trigger+shooting&hl=en&as_sdt=6,31)

"¶ 29. Steve Byrd of the Mississippi Crime Lab, an expert in the field of firearm evidence examination, testified that the gun was not considered to have a "hair trigger." Byrd was called as an expert to testify as to trigger pressure of the gun in question. Byrd stated that the pressure is measured by using trigger pull weights, which are increased in amount until the gun discharges. The gun in question required seven pounds of pressure to fire. **Byrd further stated that a gun requiring less than two pounds of pressure to fire would be classified as a gun with a "hair trigger." Therefore, the gun that Byrd examined would not be classified as having a "hair trigger."** Byrd further testified that the federal government does not have a standard requirement for the amount of force necessary to fire a handgun."

My takeaway with a lot of these cases is that the prosecutor will take anything to throw in front of the jury whether poor ammo branding/names, hollowpoints/FMJ are used, or gun is modified and try to sway the jury.