I got no skin in the game here - just own one AR that I assembled/built.
But I have to ask, where are those “facts” coming from??? Anyone can write that and post it as “facts”. Am I missing something here?
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I got no skin in the game here - just own one AR that I assembled/built.
Yes, AKA, "might as well be fairy tale land", conditions nobody on this board will likely ever expose their rifle to.
If the results are so awful, then why are M4/M16/AR derivatives still basically the #1 deployed rifle type/pattern amongst pipe hitter types? A lot of which include units that
can run/bring virtually anything that they want? If it's so terrible why would they keep going back to it? If it was so terrible then operators would be demanding
Kalashnikov clones and end up using them 95% of the time.
I'm not bashing a SCAR or LWRC or whatever either. People should keep buying them, and companies should build more stuff. Moar is better. I am bashing the ever loving shit out of this retarded, hula hoop chicken neck jive turkey type idea that you somehow "need" one to have a reliable rifle. That's just retard talk. It's retarded as a Glock owner telling some guy with a smith 3rd gen that he's owned and maintained all his life, that somehow his favorite gun is not reliable enough. It's the same brand of BS.
That's great and all, but you have to ask yourself- does it actually matter? In the real world, for normal people? Keep dreaming. A $1000ish Colt 6920 with some lube in the BCG every now and then and a wipe here and there is going to be pretty much fine. It will be reliable enough with decent mags/ammunition that most people would be bored by its existence.
Have you ever even shot a decent, properly built AR to failure? I doubt it. (maybe some rifle trainers have, or some pipe hitters that burn up a few thousand rounds a
month, etc. )
I have like a mid length, tier 2-3ish (I think it has an MP tested bolt, but that's the only fancy thing on the whole gun) AR right now, it hasn't been cleaned since I bought it. I know I can probably drop a couple drops of lube on the BCG and it'll run just fine. (it may not even need that but given that I haven't touched it in like a year itd probably be cheap insurance). Are there better rifles? Sure, you bet there are, including other ARs, etc. Is what I have bad enough that it compromises the intended use? nope. not even close.
When I was a newb I used to huff the gun rag/internet glue fumes, etc, used to be one of the types who wouldn't own a rifle that shits where it eats, but when I bought my first decent AR, I quickly discovered most of that stuff to be mostly a cauldron of bullshit that doesn't actually matter. That became apparent to me when I had like 1700 rounds through my Colt 6520 and the only thing that made it "stop" was a bad magazine...
I smoke cigars with rich guys that think just like you do, and it's hysterical, We get into these kinds of gun discussions and their myopic thinking cannot be unf***ed. Buying it "Because you want it" is one thing. I get that. I get that 110%. That's like when someone buys a Range Rover/Jaguar/Bentley (insert some other shitty, but nice looking car here) because they like how it rides and looks. It's a perfectly understandable motive. I get it, everyone has their own tastes. On the other hand when they start talking about guns they start getting into this almost like, lispy hipsteresque-talk about quality and reliability, that's based off either an excess of hype, internet blather, or some other effluvial crap, or gnomish mysticism for that matter. A guy who fires less rounds in a year than even I do (which at this point, given what I don't shoot is pretty pathetic, a few thousand rounds is a pretty low bar to hit) was trying to lecture me about how an HK MR whatever is so much more reliable than an AR. (and to top it off, he's never owned either one, just parroting shit from gun rags or whatever) I'm like... "It's a great rifle, however, in our world, most of the differences will never be realized, nor will it matter". And they don't get it. Now if the guy had just said "I like HK cause I have a bunch of their guns and I can afford it so that's what I'm buying" I get that, it makes sense. Hell I tell people to buy extra. The person then is not trying to sell themselves what, for their circumstances, amounts to a big lie to justify a purchasing decision.
It even occurs when you up the ante. This one guy was asking me what the best 1911 was and blah blah blah what do you think of Nighthawk etc blah blah blah, and I think I spent a half an hour with the guy trying to explain to him that "Unless he's going to buy an SVI, I would take the nighthawk money and buy two Dan Wessons with it" and I think his mind was numb because he didn't understand how something that cost 60% as much would be "as good" etc. It was pretty numbing.
I don't understand the need for people to tell lies and hyperbole to themselves to justify what they bought. It's just mind boggling. It's like they have part of their conscience that's trying to tell them that they made a bad decision, and the lie is necessary to shut up that half of their brain or something. Or they feel the need to self-validate because their parents didn't validate enough of their decisions growing up or something, its really weird shit that I don't think I'll ever wrap my brain around. Not saying this is the case for you but some of them feel validated based off this nostrum of vanity that their choice will somehow automatically be respected, blah blah. The fun thing is the real world is a lot more cruel than that. In things that actually matter what you can do with "X" is 1000x more important than the topic of whatever "X" actually is.
In order for reliability (as opposed to say, just simply wanting it because you like the way it looks or shoots, or for the sake of something different to try) to legitimately be an overriding motivating factor WRT purchasing decisions on stuff like this, this means that only two things are actually possible:
1- you are the corner case that can legitimately justify something based on a reliability claim. Please show the class your multi million dollar MG collection where customers pour thousands of rounds through your guns every week, or all the gun testing you've done that shows a hard-edged , drastic difference. Or the helmet cam video where your brand new AR choked while shooting the Taliban because it "wasnt reliable enough" etc.
2-you're from the George Costanza school of thought and keep telling yourself this "moar reliability" pep talk fluff to justify what you did...
It can be only one of these two possibilities, and in the case of #2, I guess if it makes you sleep better at night, then keep telling yourself that stuff.
-Mike[/QUOTE
I got no skin in the game here - just own one AR that I assembled/built.
But I have to ask, where are those “facts” coming from??? Anyone can write that and post it as “facts”. Am I missing something here?
Just posting the facts. It’s sad that you are getting this upset about themPeople like you are the reason we have to have f***ing science marches in this country. America is dumb.
I drove my raptor over a curb at starbucks once to get a good parking spot at chipotle on the other side. Some people might think thats ridiculous to spend that kind of money on a truck but hey man, if i didnt jump that curb i wouldnt have gotten that premium handicap spot, so its justified to me.
All good until you see a escort wagon go air born to beat you to that spot! LolI drove my raptor over a curb at starbucks once to get a good parking spot at chipotle on the other side. Some people might think thats ridiculous to spend that kind of money on a truck but hey man, if i didnt jump that curb i wouldnt have gotten that premium handicap spot, so its justified to me.
There is no justification necessary,
I never said they were worth the asking price, not once. They are expensive, I get it, it’s hard for most to justify, totally understand.
Do I think it’s worth the extra $2k? For me, yes. I dont have to maintain the scars or the lwrc’s at all, Im not sure I’ve even oiled them since I got them, and they’ve been 100% reliable. I shoot my guns, not as much as some here, but definitely not safe queens. They have been proven to be exceptional rifles, and not just a fad. Maybe that’s where some of the hate comes from?
And no, I don’t think the AR15 is terribly unreliable,
not at all or in anyway, never said that, nor did I imply it, they need more maintenance and care than other platforms, it’s just not the end all be all like people claim, better designs do exist.
There was an incident in Afghanistan in which the M4 was being worked beyond its abilities (can’t remember the name?), there were some troops overwhelmed by the the taliban. Troops that were still in the fight had to switch between multiple m4s to fend off the Taliban due to overheating, letting them cool then going back. I believe that is one reason they thought about other options, hence the trials.
Unfortunately price and logistics wins.
There’s always someone that has to take a topic down another road, (yes it happens in every forum), who’s telling people they are stupid with their money (in so many words). So in just the opposite sense as you’ve described above, in his mind his $900 Ar15 is the only way to go, and how it makes sense to install parts worth twice as much as the rifle, but I’m the idiot, and he’s a genius. So an innocent Scar/scope/optic thread turns into a shit show cuz someone has to bring up price, (as usual) and a mediocre trigger on a $3k rifle. So what. Troll.
Price nazis are the worst kind of people, they can’t just say “hey, it’s expensive, its a great rifle, it’s just not for me”. Instead they have to bash it and criticize the ones who have bought it, it’s grossly immature.
With that being said there is no buyers remorse here, something that Scar haters claim SCAR fanboys suffer from
My point was that people lie to themselves (and others) to make themselves feel good about the thing they bought
Nope, a couple people made jokes about a RIFLE and then the soft skinned fanbois got into an irrational lather about it... that's what happened.
This guy is off the rails..... I think you need a snickersThis one time in Afghanistan a bunch of dudes used the f*** out of their M4s while a pile of SCARs sat unused in their arms room because nobody wanted to use them.
True story.
Been lurking on this thread and, given its tempo, reluctant to wade in but here goes. I have just picked up a new 17s and thought a lot about what to put on it, finally settling on a low power variable. As others have pointed out the SCAR is not a precision gun nor am I hunting with it so a 1-8 made sense. Went back and forth a bunch between the Schmidt un Bender PM II short dot and the Leupold Mk 8 CQBSS. I’ll say it’s tough to make such an expensive purchase with the hard information that’s out there...not a lot! I looked at but didn’t really consider the NF ATACR or Khales/Swarovski products, nor the elcan.
I was finally able to look thru the Leupold and went that way, with the H27 reticle. The S&B has fewer features and the locking turrets, illumination, etc. don’t quite match the Leupold. It is true 1x however, and I’m sure the glass would be even clearer. They offer both a ‘standard’ model with both reticle and dot in the same, second, plane and a ‘dual’ with the reticle in the first plane and the dot in the second, very cool.
The Leupold is a 1.1 and not a true substitute for a red dot at lowest power but I’m hardly using this gun to clear rooms so that was less of an issue. The adjustment of everything, magnification, travel, illumination, is incredible and the glass is very bright and clear. Can’t wait to go shoot it!
Just waiting on arrival of a mount, which is a whole other thing. I’m not sure the QD really is worth having or debating but most of the manufacturers, Larue, Bobro, etc make good stuff. I have had good luck with larue but went for an ADM delta which was reasonable and will probably switch the Gieselle trigger from my 16s or just say screw it and order a new one...which brings back the point of money and want/need.
Nope, a couple people made jokes about a RIFLE and then the soft skinned fanbois got into an irrational lather about it... that's what happened.
This right here. I own both and I have SBR'ed both of them, its makes them interesting or I probably would never shoot them. The fanbois are the ones with all the butthurt in this thread.
Love to hate the Scar....lol.
How about let's start a Scar hating thread so when someone actually wants to have a mature conversation about Scopes/Scars, us mature people can have it, and the kids can leave the hate in the appropriate thread.?
This guy is off the rails..... I think you need a snickers
This one time in Afghanistan a bunch of dudes used the f*** out of their M4s while a pile of SCARs sat unused in their arms room because nobody wanted to use them.
True story.
No one was hating on the scar until you seagulls swooped in and started squaking and shitting all over the place.
HC! How can you accept a shit trigger in a $2500+ gun.
Right there would be a deal killer. There is zero reason why a $2500 has a shit trigger.
Now to pay another $350 for a trigger...uggh. i feel much better about my $900 AR that came with a nice NM trigger. I would like lighter but rules limit to 4.5lbs
So you guys couldn't just ignore it and move on? lol
I think part of the problem is that, scar haters work off of opinion and not fact. Like the colors don’t look good or they don’t like the trigger, or they don’t like the stock, or it’s over priced ( all opinions) then when people try to bring facts into the convo like the military test results people lose there minds..... let’s agree to disagree and move on lol as fun as this has been
So you guys couldn't just ignore it and move on? lol
Opinions like from real gunfighters that leave them behind operationally, or the opinions of dudes that try really hard validate their purchase?