JRT
NES Member
I could think of at least 10 lpvo’s id take before that. Hell I’d take the razorE over that.
I'm not into heavy scopes with the clarity of a B&W tv tho.
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I could think of at least 10 lpvo’s id take before that. Hell I’d take the razorE over that.
I picked up a scar over the weekend and am trying to figure out the best optic for it. Research shows that the Scar is tough on scopes. I am looking to use this rifle for target shooting out to 300 yards and hunting hogs and whitetail out to 200 yards. I wear glasses so eye relief is important and the highest magnification on a scope is usually useless to me. I see quite a few recommendations for the nightforce 2.5x10, but I am not spending $2000 on an optic. I would also like a little more magnification since I use my scope as a spotting scope occasionally when hunting. I would like to spend under $1000, ideally around $500.
Right now, the Vortex Viper PST II line seems to be a front-runner to me. It comes FFP which is interesting from a quick holdover calculation perspective when hunting. I am leaning towards the
3-15x44 FFP version since that is magnification I use when hunting now. I also really like the zero lock for quick changes. Since it has the holdover lock, maybe the FFP is not as interesting to me?
I was also looking at the Nikon x1000 series of scopes.
Any other scopes in the price range I should be looking at? Any opinion on the 2x10 vs the 3x15?
thanks,
Chris
Really? Obviously you’ve never compared the two side by side to make a comment like that.I'm not into heavy scopes with the clarity of a B&W tv tho.
Im glad you recognize your limits.So I called EuroOptic and they suggested the NIGHTFORCE SHV 4-14X50 which is a little over my budget at $1290 but within reach.
Both the Vortex and Nightforce customer service folks suggested approx 4x14 scope for what I am looking to do. Blind hunting and possibly back of the truck hunting.
When I referred to a basketball size target, I am referring to the kill zone on a small/mid-sized deer (e.g. heart and lungs) I know from actual experience, I will not take a shot at a deer 250 yards away with a 6x scope.
Chris
Really? Obviously you’ve never compared the two side by side to make a comment like that.
I’m not saying the vortex is better overall, but for the price and the way the tube disappeares at 1x better than any other scope I’ve seen. I’m still taking the gen2E. And the clarity is still damn good, nowhere near “b&w” Different strokes for different folks I guess. Glad we have the options we do.I own them both and I’m selling the Vortex. I’m also selling an HD AMG I took off my precision rifle.
I’m not saying the vortex is better overall, but for the price and the way the tube disappeares at 1x better than any other scope I’ve seen. I’m still taking the gen2E. And the clarity is still damn good, nowhere near “b&w” Different strokes for different folks I guess. Glad we have the options we do.
I’m probably guessing a lemon since the 16 isn’t particularly rough on optics like the 17. I do like vortex but it does seem like people need to use their stellar warranty more than one would like. My scar17 also ate a 2-10pst. Illumination stopped working before finishing the first MAGAzine.For what is worth I lost a vortex Razor HD2 to my scar16s. Not sure if it was the scar or I just had a lemon. Internal adjustment mechanism came apart and scope wouldn’t hold zero after rezeroing it. You could see the internal spring hanging through the magnifier.
Vortex did replace it with a new one which I sold. Before moving it to my scar 16s scope was mounted on a BCM with no issues.
I make you a bet here:You should be able to hit a basketball at 300 yards with iron sights, and you don’t need to be an operator. Even an average shooter should be able to shoot 6” groups at 300 yards with an optic, even as low as a 1x red dot sight.
I will up the bet, i will pay your entry fee and ammo for the OCSA club in pembroke CMP M1 garand clinic. The rifles are capable of 6"I make you a bet here:
We meet at a range. You, an impartial person from the forum staff, and me. You show me that you can hit a 2 inch target (the actual target, like a cardboard cutout, 2"x 2") consistently (like 4 out of 5 times) with iron sights, and if you can do that, I will:
-request that the admin put a "jackass of the year" under my screen name for the rest of 2019
-hand a $100 bill over to the witness, so he can make a donation to GOAL or the Monadnock defense fund.
You do the same if you fail. Deal?
HC! How can you accept a shit trigger in a $2500+ gun.The solution to your trigger problem is the Geissele Super Scar Trigger:
Triggers - Lower Parts - Rifle Parts
I put one in mine and it made a big difference. They go on sale a few times a year. With that NF scope you have mounted, you will be completing an awesome package with the Geissele trigger.
I really don’t want to criticize other people’s choice here. After all, it is your money and your rifle. With that said I just don’t get a high powered variable in FFP on a Scar 17. If you back the magnification down to its lowest setting, the lines almost disappear. To me a Scar has to work pretty well up close and fast. I want a quickly recognizable aiming point close it if I need it.
I make you a bet here:
We meet at a range. You, an impartial person from the forum staff, and me. You show me that you can hit a 2 inch target (the actual target, like a cardboard cutout, 2"x 2") consistently (like 4 out of 5 times) with iron sights, and if you can do that, I will:
-request that the admin put a "jackass of the year" under my screen name for the rest of 2019
-hand a $100 bill over to the witness, so he can make a donation to GOAL or the Monadnock defense fund.
You do the same if you fail. Deal?
I didn’t say 2” for iron sights. I said a basketball at 300. Though, I thought they were closer to 12” rather than the 9.5” they are. That’s my bad. I should have confirmed the standard basketball diameter before posting. Still, I assume you’re talking about a 100 yard reduction, so that’s 3”, not 2”. Did you also get a basketball’s diameter wrong and think it was 6”?
Anyway, I stand by my point that shooting 3-4 MOA out to 300 with iron sights should be regarded as doable by normal shooters. My 2 MOA at 300 mention was for optics. Perhaps I shouldn’t have said “average” shooter, but 2 MOA is a reasonable expectation with an optic and a barrel/ammo combo that will do it.
Also, I don’t meet people from the internet, plain and simple. Petition to add whatever you want under my username.
I make you a bet here:
We meet at a range. You, an impartial person from the forum staff, and me. You show me that you can hit a 2 inch target (the actual target, like a cardboard cutout, 2"x 2") consistently (like 4 out of 5 times) with iron sights, and if you can do that, I will:
-request that the admin put a "jackass of the year" under my screen name for the rest of 2019
-hand a $100 bill over to the witness, so he can make a donation to GOAL or the Monadnock defense fund.
You do the same if you fail. Deal?
If you can hold 3moa or with irons you would clean up at cmp/nra service rifle ....especially in off hand.I would pay to see you shoot 3-4 MOS with irons at 300m. I shoot 200-600 in mil competitions with irons with mil hardware heavy triggers. I probably suck at shooting.
If you can hold 3moa or with irons you would clean up at cmp/nra service rifle ....especially in off hand.
I will tell you from my own experience average shooters are not shooting 2-3 moa with irons. More like 6moa+
You wrote 2 MOA at 300 with an non-magnified optic, like a red dot. I'd say you have to be pretty darn good of a shot, take it slow, have a good rest, an optic with a <2MOA dot, no wind, and hand loads or match ammo and a barrel that likes them. And it's still a tall order @300. But ok...2 MOA is a reasonable expectation with an optic and a barrel/ammo combo that will do it.
You wrote 2 MOA at 300 with an non-magnified optic, like a red dot. I'd say you have to be pretty darn good of a shot, take it slow, have a good rest, an optic with a <2MOA dot, no wind, and hand loads or match ammo and a barrel that likes them. And it's still a tall order @300. But ok...
I think its time to start separating target size and moa.I will concede that 2 MOA at 300 with a non-magnified optic is a stretch for most shooters.
Are you going to concede that you jumped the gun on your “2” with iron sight” challenge without really reading my post?
HC! How can you accept a shit trigger in a $2500+ gun.
Right there would be a deal killer. There is zero reason why a $2500 has a shit trigger.
Now to pay another $350 for a trigger...uggh. i feel much better about my $900 AR that came with a nice NM trigger. I would like lighter but rules limit to 4.5lbs
Agreed @junior i watched that same video/report. pound for pound the scar needs less maintenance than a DI AR he said. While the scar 16 does not offer anything over an AR-15, the scar 17 beats out most AR 10 rifles with the exception of a POF 308 which i could be happy with.
So it takes $3k for FN to make things reliable?I hate when people whine about the trigger, the color, the price, the UGG stock, blah blah blah...The SCAR wasnt meant to be in competition, or look sexy, its a battle rifle, battle rifles are meant to be reliable when the shit gets hairy and nasty. There is something to be said about reliability, thats truly more important. Yes ar15s are reliable, with proper long tern care, but your gonna have to pay extra for a step above. Nature of the beast.
Its funny how everyone can justify paying huge money for something that is pretty and accurate, (accuracy isn't everything) but no one can justify the price when its notoriously reliable?
Honestly, I think its better than buying a $3500 Uber pretty Noveske 308 with a bunch of pretty bolt-ons, i dont care about the trigger on an ordinary gas gun, thats really all it is, just a dirty, hot running, poop on itself gas gun.
If i want to be accurate, ill buy a bolt gun for that money, and be done with it.
People are obsessed with pretty guns and light triggers, its just tacticool stuff. I have a harder time spending $250 on a snazzy trigger for an $850 Ar15. Thats literally 1/4 the price of the rifle, and for what?
I'll Gladly pay extra for the lack of maintenance and long term SCAR reliability any-day. Never ever have to worry about excessive heat or carbon build up, absolute sewing machine. And it can shoot under 1 moa with the right ammo, that's plenty accurate for its given purpose, and more than enough for the average gun shop commando.
So does the average Joe need that much reliability? No. But if thats what you want, and you have the funds, then go for it. I wont judge anyone for spending the coin on the SCAR, they are getting one of the best and most reliable rifles ever produced.
Battlefield Vegas reports the SCAR as the most reliable gun and cheapest gun to maintain in the whole building, that's enough for me. ..Take. My. Money!!!.
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever hearI’d rather have a $500 rifle with a $3,500 optic.
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever hear
So it takes $3k for FN to make things reliable?
You touched the key point. It comes down to what you/I/they like for your/mine/their money.
Maybe if the SCAR platform ever makes it to general issue the price might drop.
Until then , Im not a operative and Uncle Sam is not footing the bill for my gear. So I would want a nice trigger in a civilian marketed version. If its a heavy crusty milspec trigger that would be a problem for me.
Unlike military the men in the field dont get to choose thier gear . I do , so if its 3 different colors and the trigger is so so , thats going to play in my spending decision.
Really, so simple minded.
You think is takes Noveske $3500 to bolt on pretty parts to a 50 year old design?
There is probably more of a profit margin in that over priced Noveske. Minimal R&D. Bunch of bolt ons. The Scar was built ground up, its it's own design. It copies some operating technology, but no parts are interchangeable. It was built specifically at the request of the military, that cost is significant.
The military wont outfit the grunts with it cuz of the price, so you wont see it happen. They would have to change everything, even the storage would have to be changed, it's a massive expense, without the price of the gun. The military will stick to the bare minimum.
Whether you like it or not, the Scar is an excellent platform that is going strong for over a decade now, and it will keep going for years to come.
Hate it all you want. Just dont knock it cuz YOU cant justify it in ur budget.