Now wait just a minute... you denied her right to bacon? Forget all that other shit, its bacon, you make sacrifices for the pursuit of bacon. Neg rep inbound.
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How far do we go to help our neighbors?
- Thread starter excoastie
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Now wait just a minute... you denied her right to bacon? Forget all that other shit, its bacon, you make sacrifices for the pursuit of bacon. Neg rep inbound.
Thanks for a lot of good input. You guys have me thinking!
I think Finalygotabeltfed has it right. I am being played as a sucker. And the more I think about this, the more I think that I created (part of) the problem. I am stupid enough to loan out my tools… a lot. Ladders, power tools, etc. I plow the neighbor’s driveways after every storm and, for the ‘elderly’ folks, I shovel their walkways making sure that they have a way out if need be. When the tornado hit, I broke into an elderly neighbor’s home because two trees hit their home and they weren’t answering the door. They were fine and they never heard the trees hit. It tore off their chimney, destroyed their front door and they missed it. I believe that someone has to watch out for the elderly and it seems their children don’t; so I do. So I think that some of their reliance they have on me is my fault. I can try to be a neighbor that doesn’t help, but that just isn’t me. I think I can be that way if things really got bad, but it would be hard to turn my back on someone of need. Too may years in the CG, maybe.
As for OPSEC… No one knows everything I have. I have taken my neighbors shooting because I want to turn them into shooters. Massachusetts needs more pro-firearm voters. The young man across the street is in the National Guard and we go to the range before he has to qualify for the Guard. It has helped him a lot and now he is very confident in his shooting skills. I usually bring a few extra toys along, so he know I have a lot, but has no idea of what resides in my safe. No one, except my brother, knows everything I have. He knows everything because my place is the muster point if bad things happen and, if I assume room temperature, he will be the one selling my firearms and ammo (I bet he keeps it all).
But, if things got really bad, I wonder how far I would go for the neighbors. I think that I would do whatever it takes to protect my family. I pray we never find out.
I think Finalygotabeltfed has it right. I am being played as a sucker. And the more I think about this, the more I think that I created (part of) the problem. I am stupid enough to loan out my tools… a lot. Ladders, power tools, etc. I plow the neighbor’s driveways after every storm and, for the ‘elderly’ folks, I shovel their walkways making sure that they have a way out if need be. When the tornado hit, I broke into an elderly neighbor’s home because two trees hit their home and they weren’t answering the door. They were fine and they never heard the trees hit. It tore off their chimney, destroyed their front door and they missed it. I believe that someone has to watch out for the elderly and it seems their children don’t; so I do. So I think that some of their reliance they have on me is my fault. I can try to be a neighbor that doesn’t help, but that just isn’t me. I think I can be that way if things really got bad, but it would be hard to turn my back on someone of need. Too may years in the CG, maybe.
As for OPSEC… No one knows everything I have. I have taken my neighbors shooting because I want to turn them into shooters. Massachusetts needs more pro-firearm voters. The young man across the street is in the National Guard and we go to the range before he has to qualify for the Guard. It has helped him a lot and now he is very confident in his shooting skills. I usually bring a few extra toys along, so he know I have a lot, but has no idea of what resides in my safe. No one, except my brother, knows everything I have. He knows everything because my place is the muster point if bad things happen and, if I assume room temperature, he will be the one selling my firearms and ammo (I bet he keeps it all).
But, if things got really bad, I wonder how far I would go for the neighbors. I think that I would do whatever it takes to protect my family. I pray we never find out.
When people are used to getting something for free (or below cost) their first reaction when that thing stops is not usually gratefulness and appreciation for that they had... it's anger and frustration over what they won't be getting. Now mix that with a disaster situation where people are clawing for finite resources and it has got the potential to be extremely dangerous.
It's the entitlement mentality... Should the government give us all free cable TV service? Of course not... but if they did for some period, then stopped, you better believe there would be a certain element of the population ready to riot over it...
You guys sound a lot better off than I am... I only just started last month but I have some medical supplies (Real stuff, for trauma... not band aids like these civilian "medical kits" have.) and a pretty good list for my emergency pack; but, I have to admit I would still give just about anything to those in need. Mind you, I am single and alone in this state, my family moved on to NC so it's just me and some close friends. I'm just out of active service... do maybe it's the whole "sheepdog" thing but I would so just about anything for others if they were REALLY in need (Sorry, cooking bacon doesn't count to me).
Again, I have the luxury of thinking about just ME, not "me AND mine" if you will.
Again, I have the luxury of thinking about just ME, not "me AND mine" if you will.
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If your friends are prepared then they are part of your "me AND mine"
Thanks for your service
You go exactly as far as you did the first time, before they didn't return your stuff. The second time the neighborhood floods, you float around on your new bass boat and you charge them double what you paid for the tarps. You accept payment in cash, beer, or women.
The Monsters are due on Maple Street...
Folks who can't take care of things themselves I help. My 83 year old neighbor gets a visit every time it snows or we lose power or whatever. I make sure she has what she needs and I know she has friends who can and will come get her if she gets uncomfortable enough (some people won't evacuate until they are VERY uncomfortable) but she knows she is always welcome and I will send my husband to get her if we feel she needs to be taken in. We clear her snow if her regular guy (a friend) is unable and she has other neighbors who help too. If people are capable of caring for themselves and refuse to prepare I don't help. BTW, the 83 year old made sure she returned our battery operated lantern to us with new batteries once her power came back.I think I have one more shopping trip to make before Christmas (a new battery operated lantern for the neighbor).
I certainly wouldn't continue to help those who borrowed things and never returned them and/or thanked me.
Stopped by my neighbor's house with a new (better than the one we have) battery operated lantern with new batteries installed. She about cried. Merry Christmas!
Business, that is exactly what I though as I was writing the original post. At first I thought that my neighbors wouldn’t be like that. But, after reflecting a little deeper, I realized that they would do the same thing… exactly the same thing. And in our case, we would not have a metal door separating us. We would only have verbal threats and firearms.
What frightens me is not the fact that my neighbors would act like that but how far I would go to stop them from harming my family, our home and our provisions. And then I think about the hungry little, snot-nosed kid looking longingly at their parents for help and I weaken. And I think about the elderly people that obviously are not prepared for the time when the excrement strikes the oscillating blades, and I weaken. Could I say ‘no’ to them? Could I turn them away from my door? Could I use all means necessary to force them to leave? I think I could. I guess that I really don’t have a choice. But it certainly would be extremely difficult. Let’s pray that none of us ever have to make such decisions. But, just in case we do, I recommend that we do ‘mental calisthenics’ to prepare our minds to make the tough decisions and to take any and all actions necessary to remain safe.
What frightens me is not the fact that my neighbors would act like that but how far I would go to stop them from harming my family, our home and our provisions. And then I think about the hungry little, snot-nosed kid looking longingly at their parents for help and I weaken. And I think about the elderly people that obviously are not prepared for the time when the excrement strikes the oscillating blades, and I weaken. Could I say ‘no’ to them? Could I turn them away from my door? Could I use all means necessary to force them to leave? I think I could. I guess that I really don’t have a choice. But it certainly would be extremely difficult. Let’s pray that none of us ever have to make such decisions. But, just in case we do, I recommend that we do ‘mental calisthenics’ to prepare our minds to make the tough decisions and to take any and all actions necessary to remain safe.
Your concerns are my concerns. My wife and I try to be good Christians and help the down and out fellow man both through organizations and occasionally on an individual basis when it presents itself. But, we realize that there has to be a line drawn where you can not allow the unprepared to force themselves on you in a catastrophic situation. I'm not talking about a local emergency where, as neighbors, we all pitch in to help someone in distress (fire or flood or whatever). What I'm talking about loss of technology that will affect at least 1/2 the country for months if not more. It's a situation where you can't drive out of the emergency to the next county or city and regroup or find help. You have to be able to recognize the difference. In the "One Second After" scenario, society begins to collapse rather quickly.....much more quickly than I would have thought. Remember the scene where the cars are piled up on the highway and the drivers are walking to the fence asking to be allowed into the town. They, like locusts, would overpower whatever help or assets the town could provide thrusting their citizens into a more dangerous chaos than they faced. The decision, then, was to turn away, isolating them.
When I read that, I actually remember getting angry. I also got angry when the people were passing "through" the town but not being allowed to enter. My heart actually ached for some of the stragglers who were begging for help. The one thing that this book did no do is provide “happy endings”. That’s what really hit me in the end.
This is the face of what we're going to encounter and we had better be prepared to handle it. Me? I'm steeling myself as best I can. However, let's face it.....our wives or other group members may not be so firm and therefore they need to be made to understand what's at stake. If they are to survive with you, she and anyone else in your group has to be prepared to turn away those who would drain your supplies which were keeping you alive.
Our little group has already held meetings to get to know each other better. We're still in our infancy with total organization although we've all accepted certain responsibilities and will meet again right after the New Year to discuss the results of our investigations. (Fortunately for me, I'm the armorer and firearms trainer.) One of the issues that I plan on bringing up early at our next meeting will be this very subject of isolation. It's one that has to be hammered home so we are all on the same page and it's a decision that we have to make early on because everything else depends on it. The rest of the organizing can be built on it.
This is a tough thing to think about especially here at Christmas.
I sure hope that everyone here is experiencing a great day and are looking forward to a successful and safe new year!
Rome
radioman
NES Member
I'm a Christian and have been all my life. I try to follow the teachings of Jesus to the best of my ability. This question comes up very often in talks with my friends. Not to go deep into it I'll let Jesus do the talking from Mathew 25. This is talking about the second coming but the concept is the exact same. Just because someone's a Christian don't expect them to open their door every time.
Palladin
NES Member
or, you can piss off the useless neighbors, like I do!...have one across the street, husband is a good guy, but the wife runs the show. For a year she was constantly hitting on me to do things for her, mostly electrical work, for free...cause we're 'neighbors'. The last couple of outages she actually asked me to run a cord across the street to power her home! So, my answer of late to all her wanting is "sure, show me your boobs!" She mentioned this to my wife, who's equally pissed off at the whole thing, "did you hear your husband??? He asked to see my boobs!" My awesome wife replied.."I don't get involved with his work pricing, you'll have to talk to him!"![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
glostamon
NES Member
or, you can piss off the useless neighbors, like I do!...have one across the street, husband is a good guy, but the wife runs the show. For a year she was constantly hitting on me to do things for her, mostly electrical work, for free...cause we're 'neighbors'. The last couple of outages she actually asked me to run a cord across the street to power her home! So, my answer of late to all her wanting is "sure, show me your boobs!" She mentioned this to my wife, who's equally pissed off at the whole thing, "did you hear your husband??? He asked to see my boobs!" My awesome wife replied.."I don't get involved with his work pricing, you'll have to talk to him!"
Ahhhll,right!
![[pot]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/037.gif "Stir the pot [pot]")
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Remember the bridge out of New Orleans in Hurricane Katrina? The police force one community over set up a perfect Monstors on Maple street scenario and held refugees off at the bridge.
MisterHappy
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When fear takes over, all of the "higher" motivations are out the window.
If your neighbors are in fear for their survival, then they'll do what they can to help themselves, at anyone's expense. IF they come to your door bent on helping themselves to your stuff, then you'll [presumably] do what it takes to ensure yours.
This should be factored in to all prepping considerations. If you're getting ready for more than the next power outage, the Coleman generator powering your fridge may be a liability, as the Horde that wants a cold beer will know where to "ask".
If your neighbors are in fear for their survival, then they'll do what they can to help themselves, at anyone's expense. IF they come to your door bent on helping themselves to your stuff, then you'll [presumably] do what it takes to ensure yours.
This should be factored in to all prepping considerations. If you're getting ready for more than the next power outage, the Coleman generator powering your fridge may be a liability, as the Horde that wants a cold beer will know where to "ask".
J
Jose
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This right here. I will offer food and shelter ONLY to those worthy and well qualified, same mindset, or those who are useful in some way.
Is it cold? Yes, but i will not be food. As far as i am concerned in a true SHTF scenario, there is nothing more frightening than a man with 3 starving children that has made his mind up that he will do ANYTHING to make up for his lack of preparedness.
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Funny...I'm the "Zombie Apocalypse" guy in my office. All my comments are tongue in cheek, but I get the same comments. "Well...I guess we know where we are going if something happens"; To which I respond..."Good luck finding the house on boondocks street, and if you show up to my house during a time of tragedy...especially empty handed, my family will be dining on New England slacker that evening.
That said, I guess I am lucky enough to live on a street and a neighborhood where people seem to really have their shit together. Like myself, they all have wood burning stoves, generators, guns, chickens...etc etc. But even if they didn't, I'd help them until it began to hurt me and my family. If the SHTF, there would be enough security problems with out having to worry about desperate neighbors.
I'd suggest holding a town seminar on preparing for natural disaster. The basics...food, water, fire, shelter. Make your neighbors part of the solution, and not the problem. No man is an island on to himself. No matter how well prepared, we would all be better off in a community of like minded people with shared values, complimentary skills, and willing to work together.
And if they still don't learn next time around, simply say "Sorry..all my extra supplies were loaned out last disaster. And I never got any of it back. So I have nothing to loan out now". They will get the picture.
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HA HA! Too funny! I almost forgot about this Twilight Zone. ALLOT before my time, but thank you SciFi channel for New Years marathons!
Now that I think about it though...not much of a bomb shelter door that can be taken down with a makeshift battering ram.
And of course, a nice black rifle would have cleared that small mob out front; reminds me of a funny Dilbert
MisterHappy
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A fallout shelter was supposed to protect you from radiation after the Big Boom....not the blast, or the neighbors.
But that old TZ makes you think......
But that old TZ makes you think......
When there is a long term situation, no power, food is scarce and becoming non existent and my house has the lights on and my family is getting fed, my fear is the mass hysteria of sheer numbers of people trying to take what we have prepared for. My house is not a fortress,( it is as secure as I can afford to make it ) and I live in a suburban setting, but obviously I will protect what we have, at all costs. My biggest fear is having the home torched by the gang mentality because we have supplies and prepared and many others didn't. The numbers of folks that are prepared for 6 months or more are very few, never mind a week.
Yes, when it comes to starvation and freezing, man is an animal and reverts to animal instincts, I'm sorry, I prepared for my family, not others.
Yes, when it comes to starvation and freezing, man is an animal and reverts to animal instincts, I'm sorry, I prepared for my family, not others.
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Yikes!
I avoided homes in the suburbs because I don't like neighbors that are too close and because homesteading was a priority for me. But your situation is sticky. You prepped, and your neighbors likely have not. I'd be concerned as well.
It begs another question:
How far would you go to protect what you have FROM your neighbors?
P-14
NES Member
We always take the time to get to know our neighbors - no matter where we live. Developing relationships are important to know if you can rely on some of your neighbors when TSHTF.
In 2001, Buffalo had an ice storm that knocked the power out for several days. The water table is so shallow where we were living that if you didn't have power for the sump pump, your basement would flood.
The first thing I did when I got home was to invite the neighbors to throw over their extension cords for their sump pumps so I could power them with my genny. None of their basements flooded.
By sharing genny power, I gained security for the genny because the neighbors now had an interest in keeping it for our collective use. They also offered gasoline to support the genny while the power was out.
Better to make allies to help keep what you have than plan to repel all boarders, IMO. (but you should plan to repel anyway!)
In 2001, Buffalo had an ice storm that knocked the power out for several days. The water table is so shallow where we were living that if you didn't have power for the sump pump, your basement would flood.
The first thing I did when I got home was to invite the neighbors to throw over their extension cords for their sump pumps so I could power them with my genny. None of their basements flooded.
By sharing genny power, I gained security for the genny because the neighbors now had an interest in keeping it for our collective use. They also offered gasoline to support the genny while the power was out.
Better to make allies to help keep what you have than plan to repel all boarders, IMO. (but you should plan to repel anyway!)
