House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)

[exo]

So since Cadillac Deval has signed it now, when do we find out what was actually signed (for dates of implementation etc.)?

 

[jefftk]

C&R provision is still effective date 2021. Here is the response from Timilty's office, basically in order to get the provision in the law it had to be put off for 6 years, they said there are too many legislators who feel it will put more guns on the street

B-b-but, what happens in six years when this floodgate opens and the iron river of S&W top-breaks starts flowing in to the streets of Boston???

 

[Quiet]

Anyone who doubts the intended end game should pay careful attention.

I can't think of a signing ceremony where the lawmakers have said: "Well, this is it. We won't need any more laws on this ever again."

GOAL should have had balls and got up and said: "This bill gets rid of some of the more onerous problems with gun laws in Massachusetts, and it moves us in the direction of abiding by the Constitution". Had they been invited.

 

[briz]

The bill itself lists the dates. Some sections take effect immediately, others go out as far as 2021.

I should have been more specific. When can people buy pepper spray. Is that effective immediately or will it come down the line. I've spent considerable time trying to play connect the dots with the actual bill and it doesn't seem to be clear, unlike some of the sections that clearly state effective dates in 2014, 2015 and 2021 for other provisions.

 

[wildwest]

I can't even remember how this affects us anymore other than the FID being shall issue.. Any simple recap?

 

[The5thDentist]

Wish I was wearing boots when I read this part:

Terrel Harris, a spokesman for the Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety and Security, apologized for the "oversight" of not inviting GOAL. "GOAL was an important partner in crafting the gun safety legislation that Governor Patrick signed today," Harris said in an email. "We have spoken directly with GOAL Executive Director Jim Wallace to apologize for the oversight of not including them in today's program. The Executive Office of Public Safety and Security looks forward to continuing to work with GOAL as we implement the new law."

 

[rlee]

Section 22, which deals with pepper spray, is not mentioned in the "takes effect" sections. Does that mean that it takes effect immediately(emergency preamble) or after 90 days?

 

[jasons]

I should have been more specific. When can people buy pepper spray. Is that effective immediately or will it come down the line. I've spent considerable time trying to play connect the dots with the actual bill and it doesn't seem to be clear, unlike some of the sections that clearly state effective dates in 2014, 2015 and 2021 for other provisions.

The pepper spray stuff is in section 20, which takes effect on January 1, 2015.

 

[MA_Shooter]

Wish I was wearing boots when I read this part:

Sounds like BS to me.

 

[rlee]

The pepper spray stuff is in section 20, which takes effect on January 1, 2015.

That's the ammunition definition.
I guess it's reasonable to assume that the big list of conditions to buy would follow that.
Thanks.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I can't even remember how this affects us anymore other than the FID being shall issue.. Any simple recap?

Comm2A will be releasing on our website a detailed, 12 page analysis of the bill later tonight or tomorrow.

 

[jasons]

Section 22, which deals with pepper spray, is not mentioned in the "takes effect" sections. Does that mean that it takes effect immediately(emergency preamble) or after 90 days?

If there's no date specified it takes effect immediately due to the emergency preamble.

 

[jasons]

That's the ammunition definition.
I guess it's reasonable to assume that the big list of conditions to buy would follow that.
Thanks.

Yes, the bill removes pepper spray from the definition of ammunition. (Section 20.)

Section 22 adds a whole bunch of stuff regulating pepper spay itself:

SECTION 22. S § 20 Said chapter 140 of the General Laws is hereby further amended by inserting after section 122B the following 2 sections:-

Section 122C. (a) As used in this section and section 122D, “self-defense spray” shall mean chemical mace, pepper spray or any device or instrument which contains, propels or emits a liquid, gas, powder or other substance designed to incapacitate.

(b) Whoever, not being licensed as provided in section 122B, sells self-defense spray shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than 2 years.

(c) Whoever sells self-defense spray to a person younger than 18 years of age, if the person younger than 18 years of age does not have a firearms identification card, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $300.

(d) A person under 18 years of age who possesses self-defense spray and who does not have a firearms identification card shall be punished by a fine of not more than $300.

Section 122D. No person shall purchase or possess self-defense spray who:

(i) in a court of the commonwealth, has been convicted or adjudicated a youthful offender or delinquent child as defined in section 52 of chapter 119 for the commission of: (A) a felony; (B) a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for more than 2 years; (C) a violent crime as defined in section 121; (D) a violation of a law regulating the use, possession, ownership, transfer, purchase, sale, lease, rental, receipt or transportation of weapons or ammunition for which a term of imprisonment may be imposed; or (E) a violation of a law regulating the use, possession or sale of a controlled substance as defined in section 1 of chapter 94C including, but not limited to, a violation under said chapter 94C; provided, however, that except for the commission of a violent crime or a crime involving the trafficking of controlled substances, if the person has been so convicted or adjudicated or released from confinement, probation or parole supervision for such conviction or adjudication, whichever occurs last, for 5 or more years immediately preceding the purchase or possession, that person may purchase or possess self-defense spray;

(ii) in another state or federal jurisdiction, has been convicted or adjudicated a youthful offender or delinquent child for the commission of: (A) a felony; (B) a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for more than 2 years; (C) a violent crime as defined in section 121; (D) a violation of a law regulating the use, possession, ownership, transfer, purchase, sale, lease, rental, receipt or transportation of weapons or ammunition for which a term of imprisonment may be imposed; or (E) a violation of a law regulating the use, possession or sale of a controlled substance as defined in section 1 of chapter 94C; provided, however, that, except for the commission of a violent crime or a crime involving the trafficking of weapons or controlled substances, if the person has been so convicted or adjudicated or released from confinement, probation or parole supervision for such conviction or adjudication, whichever occurs last, for 5 or more years immediately preceding the purchase or possession and that applicant's right or ability to possess a rifle or shotgun has been fully restored in the jurisdiction wherein the subject conviction or adjudication was entered, then that person may purchase or possess self-defense spray;

(iii) has been committed to any hospital or institution for mental illness unless the person obtains, prior to purchase or possession, an affidavit of a licensed physician or clinical psychologist attesting that such physician or psychologist is familiar with the applicant's mental illness and that in the physician's or psychologist’s opinion the applicant is not disabled by such an illness in a manner that shall prevent the applicant from possessing self-defense spray;

(iv) is or has been in recovery from or committed based upon a finding that the person is a person with an alcohol use disorder or a substance use disorder or both unless a licensed physician or clinical psychologist deems such person to be in recovery from such condition, in which case, such person may purchase or possess self-defense spray after 5 years from the date of such confinement or recovery; provided, however, that prior to such purchase or possession of self-defense spray, the applicant shall submit an affidavit issued by a licensed physician or clinical psychologist attesting that such physician or psychologist knows the person’s history of treatment and that in that physician's or psychologist’s opinion the applicant is in recovery;

(v) at the time of the application, is younger than 15 years of age;

(vi) at the time of the application, is at least 15 years of age but less than 18 years of age unless the applicant submits with the application a certificate from the applicant’s parent or guardian granting the applicant permission to apply for a card;

(vii) is an alien who does not maintain lawful permanent residency or is an alien not residing under a visa pursuant to 8 U.S.C § 1101(a)(15)(U), or is an alien not residing under a visa pursuant to 8 U.S.C. § 1154(a)(1)(B)(ii)(I) or is an alien not residing under a visa pursuant to 8 U.S.C. § 1101(a)(15)(T)(i)(I)-(IV);

(viii) is currently subject to: (1) an order for suspension or surrender issued pursuant to section 3B or 3C of chapter 209A or section 7 of chapter 258E; or (2) a permanent or temporary protection order issued pursuant to chapter 209A or section 7 of chapter 258E; or

(ix) is currently the subject of an outstanding arrest warrant in any state or federal jurisdiction.

Whoever purchases or possesses self-defense spray in violation of this section shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than 2 years or both such fine and imprisonment.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Can anyone sell pepper spray now?

 

[jasons]

Can anyone sell pepper spray now?

Not without a license.

Whoever, not being licensed as provided in section 122B, sells self-defense spray shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or by imprisonment in a house of correction for not more than 2 years.

 

[rlee]

Not without a license.

But you can give it away to someone over 18 or between 15 and 18 with a FID card.

 

[jasons]

But you can give it away to someone over 18 or between 15 and 18 with a FID card.

I don't see anything in there that says you can't.

 

[rlee]

There's also nothing that I could find preventing non-residents from carrying OC spray.

Of course all of this discussion assumes that the CMRs follow the law.

 

[Quiet]

Wait wait! If the removal from the ammo section doesn't take effect immediately, it's still ammo even though it can be sold differently.


soooooo....

 

[Dadstoys]

Wish I was wearing boots when I read this part:

Let them have their little moment of asshattery.
We will never have a moment of doubt about who's , who on the next go around.
No more pretending to give a shit about " respecting rights" or any of the other meaningless placating that went on.
They voted. We know who came down on what side.
Naughton and others can shove their little "listening tours" or any other pretext that they have any respect for us.
Now it's our turn.

 

[Billsail]

So, we now have legal recourse for the denials for people. Which means that, in THEORY, we no longer need to label towns in colors (which is great, because I'm colorblind). As it removes a Class B, it should also remove any restrictions-or, if it doesnt specifically spell that out-that can be argued. I really like that any denials (and, I'm assuming, restrictions) have to go before a judge to show reason why. Granted, there will be test cases, but I see this working for us, rather than against us. As to the may issue FID? I'm waiting for the first denial, without evidence (or even with, that shows nothing untoward), then a federal case coming out of it. 46 states moved forward regarding 2A rights. Or, remained as they are. We werent one of them.

I read the latest version of the bill that was available to the public a while ago, and I don't recall seeing wording that specifically requires CoPs to to explain to a court, in writing, reasons for LTC restrictions. Are we just assuming that is the case, or did I overlook it? I know it mentions "restrictions", but that is in the section that talks about FIDs. Or is this something that may require the court's, or the AG's interpretation??

It frustrates me to read posts in here, asking questions about the bill that have been answered numerous times, in previous posts. I think to myself "tough luck, if you can't keep up", and now... here I am...asking questions...sorry.

 

[terraformer]

So since Cadillac Deval has signed it now, when do we find out what was actually signed (for dates of implementation etc.)?

From your mouth to gods ears... We are working on that now. It still not clear.

 

[Quiet]

From your mouth to gods ears... We are working on that now. It still not clear.

Out of all the politics and shenanigans that go on in this state, bills that have been signed into law especially ones that have an emergency preamble being unavailable is by far the single most overtly egregious thing.

 

[delgrifith]

Let them have their little moment of asshattery.
We will never have a moment of doubt about who's , who on the next go around.
No more pretending to give a shit about " respecting rights" or any of the other meaningless placating that went on.
They voted. We know who came down on what side.
Naughton and others can shove their little "listening tours" or any other pretext that they have any respect for us.
Now it's our turn.

And I just saw a Warren Tollman ad with smart gun technology as his top priority. These people will never stop, we must stay organized and keep the $$ going to comm2a and GOAL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lagrangian]

I read the latest version of the bill that was available to the public a while ago, and I don't recall seeing wording that specifically requires CoPs to to explain to a court, in writing, reasons for LTC restrictions. Are we just assuming that is the case, or did I overlook it?

I believe you overlooked it.

Here's the section relevant to LTCs. Emphasis mine.

SECTION 51. Paragraph (f) of said section 131 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended by striking out the second paragraph and inserting in place thereof the following paragraph:- Any applicant or holder aggrieved by a denial, revocation, suspension or restriction placed on a license, unless a hearing has previously been held pursuant to chapter 209A, may, within either 90 days after receiving notice of the denial, revocation or suspension or within 90 days after the expiration of the time limit during which the licensing authority shall respond to the applicant or, in the case of a restriction, any time after a restriction is placed on the license pursuant to this section, file a petition to obtain judicial review in the district court having jurisdiction in the city or town in which the applicant filed the application or in which the license was issued. If after a hearing a justice of the court finds that there was no reasonable ground for denying, suspending, revoking or restricting the license and that the petitioner is not prohibited by law from possessing a license, the justice may order a license to be issued or reinstated to the petitioner or may order the licensing authority to remove certain restrictions placed on the license.

 

[wildwest]

Comm2A will be releasing on our website a detailed, 12 page analysis of the bill later tonight or tomorrow.

Thank you

 

[Coyote33]

All I could find so far:
Speaker Bob DeLeo ‏@SpeakerDeLeo 1h Today @MassGovernor signs #gunsense legislation pic.twitter.com/0zENnfYQ15

http://www.momsdemandaction.org/in-...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/08/gov_deval_patrick_signs_gun_bi.html

Although the state's main pro-gun rights lobby, the Gun Owners Action League, ultimately supported the bill, Wednesday's signing ceremony was dominated by gun control advocates. John Rosenthal, the founder of the group Stop Handgun Violence and one of the state's most vocal advocates for gun control, spoke during the ceremony. Many in the audience wore stickers reading "stop gun violence."

Molly Malloy, a Boston resident from the pro-gun control group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense, said before the ceremony that the bill includes common sense provisions "that keep guns out of dangerous hands while still respecting Second Amendment rights."

Jim Wallace, executive director of GOAL, reached by phone after the signing, said he was on vacation, but his group had not received an invitation.

"I found out he was going to sign the bill this morning," Wallace said. "I thought it was kind of interesting with all the work we did on it that we didn't get an invitation, but that goes along with how the governor's treated us since he's been in office."

GOAL was involved in shaping provisions of the bill that established new crimes related to gun trafficking and set up a criminal firearms trafficking division of the state police.

Terrel Harris, a spokesman for the Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety and Security, apologized for the "oversight" of not inviting GOAL. "GOAL was an important partner in crafting the gun safety legislation that Governor Patrick signed today," Harris said in an email. "We have spoken directly with GOAL Executive Director Jim Wallace to apologize for the oversight of not including them in today's program. The Executive Office of Public Safety and Security looks forward to continuing to work with GOAL as we implement the new law."

"Sweeping new MA gun laws introduced to much fanfare"

 

[Jbarila]

We must continue the fight. i am appalled by how many gun owners don't know that any of this is going on and the law is changing. Shame on all of us but that will change. At my club we plan to keep all our members informed and involved. We got many to call and email over the last few months now we need to get them to vote.

 

[Night_solstice]

'nother donation sent to comm2a and goal. (waiting for my next 'Hi, it's been 3 weeks since we called bringing up your membership that is still current" phone call from the NRA to inquire just what did they do help in any way....

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[Coyote33]

I got a call looking for money for the Chiefs of Police Association last night. I basically told him the police are treating me as their enemy and to go fart in a hat.