House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)

[pastera]

But the chiefs may interpret it to mean lawful purposes "as issued" anyway, as carrying with restrictions is presently unlawful.

Read the quote - the license is valid for all lawful purposes. It does not allow for restrictions

Issuance:

may issue if it appears that the applicant is not a prohibited person as set forth in this section to be issued a license and that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to the applicant or the applicant’s property or for any other reason, including the carrying of firearms for use in sport or target practice only, subject to the restrictions expressed or authorized under this section

The renewal section clearly dictates "ALL" lawful purposes instead of being subject to restrictions [to all lawful purposes]

 

[Palladin]

It would seem to me this will eliminate red towns... blanket policies should no longer be able to exist. My .02

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

the first Comm2A case will help establish that. I'm sure Boston & Brookline will continue with their set ways, until they lose a court challenge

 

[xcom]

While this FID standard is something, it reminds me too much of the 209A standard which are given out like candy as M.G.L. c. 209A authorizes the Court to create orders that protect people from abuse if you have a "reasonable fear of imminent serious physical harm" from the person you are seeking protection from. The new standard: “reliable, articulable, and credible information” that suggests one “could potentially create a risk to public safety" is not even as exacting as the 209A standard which requires "imminent" danger. We'll see how it plays out in the courts and if the COPs are "gun shy" about a 2A court challenge to the whole law.

 

[pastera]

SECTION 56. Paragraph (l) of said section 131 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended by inserting after the first sentence the following sentence:- The form for renewal shall include an affidavit in which the applicant shall verify that the applicant has not lost any firearms or had any firearms stolen from the applicant’s since the date of the applicant’s last renewal or issuance.

This is very scary as this in not an affirmation that you reported any lost or stolen firearms but that you did not have any stolen or lost. Reading it in its plain language says you cannot get an FID or LTC if you have had firearms lost or stolen.

Worded correctly:

SECTION 56. Paragraph (l) of said section 131 of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended by inserting after the first sentence the following sentence:- The form for renewal shall include an affidavit in which the applicant shall verify that the applicant has reported any firearms lost by or stolen from the applicant’s since the date of the applicant’s last renewal or issuance.

 

[Friday]

yes, because they think gun owners are inherent liars- Losing a gun is irresponsible, (and hence unsuitable) so any dolt who loses a gun will claim that it's stolen. They're just covering another loophole.

That's sarcasm, in case you miss it.....

 

[dennism]

So this pretty much keeps fid shall issue. Chiefs don't have the time to fight every case in court.

 

[xcom]

So this pretty much keeps fid shall issue. Chiefs don't have the time to fight every case in court.

COPs don't do crap. They have town attorney's fight this for them with your money. If you are in a Moon-bat enough town, they will find money for this. Yet, the issue, and I have not seen the full text, as to how this comes about in court is out there. Is this ex parte or do you, the filer need representation?

 

[jefftk]

Section 28 strikes out registration language
Section 29 add the following

Looks like they are killing the registry as the serial number and make are not necessary for compliance.

This was discussed when the senate bill was first released.... You can bet your ass that the make/model/serial number of the gun will be deemed "necessary and proper".

 

[pastera]

This was discussed when the senate bill was first released.... You can bet your ass that the make/model/serial number of the gun will be deemed "necessary and proper".

And this can be fought as it is provably not "necessary to verify the identification of the seller and purchaser and ensure that the sale or transfer complies with this section". At best make/model could be argued as necessary to determine large capacity for a transaction involving an FID but is otherwise provably not necessary.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Just printed this final bill but haven't read it yet, so comments are based strictly on what is posted here.

It's not quite as bad as what the house wanted, but it's still bad enough to be taken into court. Let's pass this sucker and then use the opportunity we've been handed.

I fully agree here.

I was mulling over an offer to bump from NRA Life to Benefactor for only $250 when I got the robo-call from NRA saying kill the bill due to the "fid" (spoken like fig) suitability in the bill. They are clueless and can only hurt us in MA like they did the good folks in NH. No chance that I'll bump up my NRA membership or that they will get another dime from me other than from Instructor activities.

I think instead that it means the license's use is so extended. That is, you will still be able to buy a gun firing this extended grace period.

No you won't unless they make some serious changes to the current database. I'll be addressing this with Michaela but I doubt that she has the clout to order that to happen.

Read the quote - the license is valid for all lawful purposes. It does not allow for restrictions

Issuance:


The renewal section clearly dictates "ALL" lawful purposes instead of being subject to restrictions [to all lawful purposes]

As much as I wish this were true, I am certain that it won't be and the resultant CMR will address that to ensure this is not the case. MCOPA has a lot more clout than most realize and they would never stand for that.

 

[Springfield_trapdoor]

WTF is a Potential danger to public safety. This is clearly BS double talk and Clearly unconstitutional....

 

[LoginName]

1) So now... is an FID going to become the new LTC B?
By that I mean, a first time applicant for an LTC A gets dumbed down to an FID by the Chief?

2) Really no point in even applying for an FID (unless one is under 18)... if your going to get denied, might as well get denied big.

Aww, Rosenthal is still whining like a little bitch. So sad he couldn't completely screw innocent people over this time. ****er.

I always knew he was a waste of skin. I didn't realize just how much of one he is until reading some of his more recent comments.

It would seem to me this will eliminate red towns... blanket policies should no longer be able to exist. My .02

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

the first Comm2A case will help establish that. I'm sure Boston & Brookline will continue with
their set ways, until they lose a court challenge

I suspect MCOPA will be advising it's members to tread carefully (which a few well known bone heads will most likely ignore).

They know they set themselves up for a court challenge that could have the potential for bringing the whole "may issue" licensing
scheme crashing down. The best they can hope for is providing us as fewer plaintiffs with sketchy backgrounds as possible.

 

[mattyw]

WTF is a Potential danger to public safety. This is clearly BS double talk and Clearly unconstitutional....

to be determined later

post on NES? potential danger to public safety
distrust your government? potential danger
don't like taxes? potential danger
pulled over for speeding too often? potential danger

 

[gunclinger]

1) So now... is an FID going to become the new LTC B?
By that I mean, a first time applicant for an LTC A gets dumbed down to an FID by the Chief?

Chief: "Yes, and you'll like it...I don't even have to give you that!"

 

[Palladin]

LenS: I was mulling over an offer to bump from NRA Life to Benefactor for only $250 when I got the robo-call from NRA saying kill the bill due to the "fid" (spoken like fig) suitability in the bill. They are clueless and can only hurt us in MA like they did the good folks in NH. No chance that I'll bump up my NRA membership or that they will get another dime from me other than from Instructor activities.

Same here, I was all set to go Benefactor, then this entire fiasco happened. Called them up and cancelled.

 

[Hush]

So, are we still "neutral" on the bill and considering this a win?
Once again, **** this state. There is no reason to stick around any longer. And its not just because of guns....its damn near everything. Taxes, roads, people, taxes, gun laws, taxes, corruption, taxes, and corruption. That's pretty much all MA has to offer.

 

[Bfatz]

So, are we still "neutral" on the bill and considering this a win?

Ya I've been biting my lip on the " We won this " mantra of the last few weeks. I guess I can only say " I told you so " The only winners here are the criminals which don't follow laws anyway, and the COPS which were given more powers and a free pass to any and all firearms at their disposal retired or otherwise.

The entire drama was nothing but a well staged act. The suicide thing, the Mental Illness thing, all a farce. If Mental Illness is indeed a factor, well that would most likely make up 80% of the Dopes in this decrepit State.

So see there you have it, full on disarmament of the population with a stroke of a pen, and not one shot fired.

But I'm mad as hell dammit ( said from my keyboard ) My only hope is the day I go re-new I'm not having an allergy episode and my eyes are glossy, I would hate to be deemed unsuitable for bloodshot eyes.

 

[jasons]

....got the robo-call from NRA saying kill the bill due to the "fid" (spoken like fig) suitability in the bill.

I really hope Jim @ GOAL is getting on the phone with those bozos and using his command voice. WTF.

 

[45collector]

I got a call from the NRA during Naughton's Magical Mystery Tour. They asked for more money. I asked the lady what the NRA has done for MA lately. She couldn't answer. I hung up.

 

[mattyw]

weird, it comes down to the last day and our rights end up further restricted

never saw it coming

 

[MikeInMA]

I would agree with the NRA that this bill should go down. I do not think there is anything that beneficial to gun owners as a whole to support it. There are 122 sections of new laws and changes to existing laws. Why is everything being changed from 17 to 18? Some people with Class B's will not be able to get a Class A and will might be able to get FID? Regardless of whether or not this monster passes, they will come back for more. This settles nothing.

PS edit, Thanks to GOAL and those who tried to make this better.

 

[Aaron[MA]]

Once again, **** this state. There is no reason to stick around any longer. And its not just because of guns....its damn near everything. Taxes, roads, people, taxes, gun laws, taxes, corruption, taxes, and corruption. That's pretty much all MA has to offer.

QFT

 

[pastera]

Read the quote - the license is valid for all lawful purposes. It does not allow for restrictions

The renewal section clearly dictates "ALL" lawful purposes instead of being subject to restrictions [to all lawful purposes]

As much as I wish this were true, I am certain that it won't be and the resultant CMR will address that to ensure this is not the case. MCOPA has a lot more clout than most realize and they would never stand for that.

How does CMR override the law? (not being a jerk just not understanding) The wording is clear and it does not call out for a CMR to define anything.

 

[MikeInMA]

How does CMR override the law? (not being a jerk just not understanding) The wording is clear and it does not call out for a CMR to define anything.

One could argue using the license for other than stated restrictions is no longer a lawful purpose.

I'm not 100% sure that ALP was ever truely defined and was more of an accepted term used prior to "No Restrictions" or the stated restriction scheme we now have.

 

[pastera]

One could argue using the license for other than stated restrictions is no longer a lawful purpose.

I'm not 100% sure that ALP was ever truely defined and was more of an accepted term used prior to "No Restrictions" or the stated restriction scheme we now have.

the card shall remain valid after the expiration date on the card for all lawful purposes until the application for renewal is approved or denied

A license shall entitle a holder thereof of a license to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority considers proper

While I would not want to bet my freedom on it the differnce is clear.

 

[yanici]

Neg me if you want to, but I already called my Rep and Senator's office asking them to vote in favor of the bill if it gets up there today. It ain't gonna get any better and it could have been way worse. I'm hoping this will hold the dust down on any more anti-gun legislation for a while.

 

[delgrifith]

Take this latest bill and use it as a funding/membership drive for GOAL. Any club who requires NRA membership to join should change it to GOAL.. We raised a lot of noise for a small group, it will take more money and more numbers in the future. Use the FID suitability crap to recruit the FUDDs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mattyw]

Neg me if you want to, but I already called my Rep and Senator's office asking them to vote in favor of the bill if it gets up there today. It ain't gonna get any better and it could have been way worse. I'm hoping this will hold the dust down on any more anti-gun legislation for a while.

it would get better if it wasn't presented in the first place, which is why I asked mine to oppose it

I don't see how anyone can be optimistic that because this will pass that we can avoid further restrictions in the near future, has there been something to make you think this way? or just hopeful optimism based on your own desires?

 

[HuntMaine]

I had to laugh (or cry) when I saw the big crowd that turned out to Protest the Gas Pipeline expansion in Mass and all the press & TV they got.

So Ive called, Ive Emailed and now we wait to hear how much lube we need to apply when this Bill gets Passed.

 

[MaynardDad]

[Deleted my post … after reading what LenS wrote below, I'd like this to pass.]