High Capacity TRAP

[Len-2A Training]

Just out of curiocity. What happens when a Post-Ban gun comes into the state via a residency change, and then is later sold to a dealer or a Citizen?

How would one protect themselves then?

-Weer'd Beard

If the handgun isn't on the List, and AG approved, no MA FFL is supposed to sell it to any MA resident. They can sell thru eBay out of state, etc.

Post-ban "high cap" mags are supposed to be sold only to LE (duty use only) or out of state as well.

It is up to the dealer to do due diligence (some do, some don't) AND the buyer NOT to get caught in the trap by making sure that what they possess is legal to possess. The onus here is really on the possessor, NOT THE DEALER! Caveat emptor applies.

 

[Hawgleg44]

Just out of curiocity. What happens when a Post-Ban gun comes into the state via a residency change, and then is later sold to a dealer or a Citizen?

How would one protect themselves then?

-Weer'd Beard

If it's not a MA "compliant" handgun, a dealer would be a fool to take possession of it. They are looking at a $10,000 fine, per gun, for selling it.

If it was transferred person to person on an FA-10, then there is nothing illegal about it, unless it has post-ban magazines. It still makes the magazines illegal, but since the MA laws only apply to dealers, the handgun is not illegal.

 

[Coyote33]

I have 3 pre-ban 12'ers for my 229. And thats what I carry all the time. The 10 rounders are just for fun at the range.

The 10 rounders all have the sundial date code. Its a circle, with the arrow pointint to the month of manufacture, and the year of manufacturer in the middle.

Even the post-ban full-cap's ive seen dont have any date code. Just dont get busted with a full-cap for a gun that wasn't available before the ban....

We all know it is illegal to obliterate or change serial numbers.

Just wondering, is it illegal to sand down magazines for better function?


Everyone is talking about Glock this, Glock that. What about other brands? Didn't Ruger make 9mm handguns with the same magazine for years and years before "the ban"? Now are newer Rugers which still fit those magazines illegal? Not quite getting it here...

 

[Hawgleg44]

I have 3 pre-ban 12'ers for my 229. And thats what I carry all the time. The 10 rounders are just for fun at the range.

The 10 rounders all have the sundial date code. Its a circle, with the arrow pointint to the month of manufacture, and the year of manufacturer in the middle.

Even the post-ban full-cap's ive seen dont have any date code. Just dont get busted with a full-cap for a gun that wasn't available before the ban....

We all know it is illegal to obliterate or change serial numbers.

Just wondering, is it illegal to sand down magazines for better function?


Everyone is talking about Glock this, Glock that. What about other brands? Didn't Ruger make 9mm handguns with the same magazine for years and years before "the ban"? Now are newer Rugers which still fit those magazines illegal? Not quite getting it here...

Well, the newer Ruger autos aren't MA "compliant", so they cannot be bought through a dealer (with the exception of the MKIII and P345), but can be legally transferred on an FA-10 from a private party, who moved into state/has dual residency and legally bought it out-of-state. It doesn't matter if the handgun will accept LE mags or not. It doesn't make that handgun "illegal". But, possession of LE marked, or new production, full-capacity magazines IS illegal.

But, to answer your question, no. If you have newer model Rugers (a P95 for example) they obviously went into production after the ban went into effect in 1994. But, there is absolutely noting illegal about putting a pre-ban full-capacity magazine (15-rounds) from a P85 or P89 in it. But, it is illegal to use an LE or new production magazine in it. It doesn't make the handgun illegal, it's just illegal to possess the magazine.

I agree, I hate Glocks, too.

 

[SnakeEye]

2628252 Magazine, P 99/990, 16-Shot, 9mm Pre ban Pic $ 100.00 Order

i can see that buying magazines is going to exceed the cost of the handgun [evil]

 

[dwarven1]

good grief, Snake-eye... where do you keep getting those weird avatars? And why?

 

[SnakeEye]

it keeps it interesting!
im clearly easily amused

 

[Admin]

it keeps it interesting!
im clearly easily amused

LOL they make me chuckle each time.

 

[Falstaff66]

Well here's the relevant restriction.

" Chapter 140: Section 131M Assault weapon or large
capacity feeding device not lawfully possessed on
September 13, 1994; sale, transfer or possession;
punishment

Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale,
transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large
capacity feeding device that was not otherwise
lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994. Whoever not
being licensed under the provisions of section 122
violates the provisions of this section shall be
punished, for a first offense, by a fine of not less
than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment
for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or
by both such fine and imprisonment, and for a second
offense, by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more
than $15,000 or by imprisonment for not less than five
years nor more than 15 years, or by both such fine and
imprisonment."

Reading this by the letter of the law, the Magazine just needs to be possessed lawfully (anywhere, by anyone) on September 13, 1994. Also, unlike certain other provisions, there is not a "ban" and then an affirmative defense. That would allow you to raise a defense that the mag was pre-ban, but the burden would be on you. As this is written, the state should have the burden of proving that the mag is post-ban. Of course, anything can happen in Massachusetts and I have't checked any cases on this point.

 

[Hawgleg44]

There was a dog officer in a town somewhere around here, wo got sick of people riding their ATV's in his fields. So, he went out there and threatened them with a pistol. When they still wouldn't listen, he shot one of their ATV's.

There was obviously a list of charges, and one of them was possession of an LE marked restricted magazine, I think for a Glock.

I don't know whatever came of the case. With the court systems the way they are, probably nothing.

 

[Coyote33]

...
Didn't Ruger make 9mm handguns with the same magazine for years and years before "the ban"? Now are newer Rugers which still fit those magazines illegal? Not quite getting it here...

It doesn't make that handgun "illegal". But, possession of LE marked, or new production, full-capacity magazines IS illegal.

But, to answer your question, no. If you have newer model Rugers (a P95 for example) they obviously went into production after the ban went into effect in 1994. But, there is absolutely noting illegal about putting a pre-ban full-capacity magazine (15-rounds) from a P85 or P89 in it. But, it is illegal to use an LE or new production magazine in it. It doesn't make the handgun illegal, it's just illegal to possess the magazine....[/quote]

I thought it was just illegal to PURCHASE in MA, not to possess.

Thanks, (but not really).

 

[Hawgleg44]

It's illegal to purchase a non-compliant HANDGUN, but all the penalties are against the dealer.

But, the possession of an LE marked, or new production full-capacity magazine IS VERY illegal! I believe the penalty for 1st offense is minimum 1, max 10 years in jail, and a fine of not less than $1000, not more than $10,000. I believe that's the correct penalties, but I could be off on them a little.

Either way, yes, it's illegal to possess a non-pre ban magazine.

 

[SnakeEye]

does anyone know if this site is reputable?

http://www.carlwalther.com/p99acc.htm

Hes selling pre-ban 16 rd magazines for P99 for 100.00$ about halfway down the page. , but id like to know if this is someone whos word i can trust as mags typically lack serialization or dating to ensure compliance.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It's illegal to purchase a non-compliant HANDGUN, but all the penalties are against the dealer.

NOT TRUE as stated! [And those words will confuse others.]

It is ILLEGAL ONLY for the DEALER to sell them. You can buy them all day long and the BUYER is perfectly legal! A private owner can sell them to another private buyer (both with LTCs) as long as both reside in MA.

If this was NOT the case, the AG would have used his own JBTs to kick in the doors to retrieve all those Glocks that were sold during that short "window of opportunity". Instead, Glock and their dealers "requested" that they buyers return them, but nobody could do anything against those that purchased them.

 

[Len-2A Training]

does anyone know if this site is reputable?

http://www.carlwalther.com/p99acc.htm

Hes selling pre-ban 16 rd magazines for P99 for 100.00$ about halfway down the page. , but id like to know if this is someone whos word i can trust as mags typically lack serialization or dating to ensure compliance.

Yes, that is Earl and he's 100% reputable. He had a special importation permit to bring in P99s and high-caps before the doors slammed shut. You can trust him and he's usually at most of the large gun shows with the big Carl Walther banner hanging over his tables. His prices are not cheap, but he only sells the all German products (and looks down his nose at the Walther/S&W made P99s).

 

[Hawgleg44]

If I see a price tag of $100 for "pre-ban" magazines, I'd never deal with the person. Screw him. It's cheaper to buy a different pistol that has affordable pre-ban magazines than to buy the 7-10 magazines (minimum) for any handgun you own from him.

Post a WTB ad on different forums, and I'm sure you will get plenty of responses which are more affordable than the price gouging he's doing. Nothing like building up a retirement account by selling just a few magazines!

 

[Len-2A Training]

IIRC, there were damn few 16 rd mags imported to the US prior to the Fed Ban. Earl went thru the legal hassle to import them himself. If I recall what he told me correctly, they tried to stop his importation and he went thru some legal hoops to set it straight (he had the Dept of State importation paperwork in hand).

MLP on Walther P99 mags are ~$40 and he has cornered the market for the hi-caps pre-ban so it is a supply and demand issue. He probably should lower the price somewhat since most states can import new ones for the $40 tag, but he also doesn't update his website very often (maybe 1-2x/year from what I've seen).

You'll never get a bargain from Earl (he sells at list price), but he is probably the most knowledgeable person in the US on the Walther products that he sells and supports.

 

[SnakeEye]

thanks for the info,
its really almost worth the extra money to have the piece of mind of knowing the mags are legitimately "pre bans" as opposed to having to face the consequences otherwise.

 

[Coyote33]

It's illegal to purchase a non-compliant HANDGUN, but all the penalties are against the dealer.

But, the possession of an LE marked, or new production full-capacity magazine IS VERY illegal! I believe the penalty for 1st offense is minimum 1, max 10 years in jail, and a fine of not less than $1000, not more than $10,000. I believe that's the correct penalties, but I could be off on them a little.

Either way, yes, it's illegal to possess a non-pre ban magazine.

Wow! I guess you saved me a hassle. I was thinking of driving up to Kittery to get some clips/magazine/feeding devices, but now might not.

Maybe there can be some sort of adoption program set up where people can trade in their old "pre-ban" ones for a new one, so they can be bought for use in Mass.

 

[Hawgleg44]

Maybe there can be some sort of adoption program set up where people can trade in their old "pre-ban" ones for a new one, so they can be bought for use in Mass.

If you post WTT ads on higher traffic sites, you will probably be able to find someone interested in trades. Since I'm now injured and possibly will be losing my badge, I posted my LE mags for trade on the different forums. Most people, especially if you are well established on the forum, are more than willing to trade you since it makes no difference to them. I always offer to pay shipping both ways, but everybody has refused so far. They are just happy to help out.

I've traded 9mm and .40 S&W Sigma mags, 30 round AR mags, Glock mags (when I used to own those POS's) and 6906 mags. There's even a thread on AR15.com so people can trade LE marked, or post-ban AR lowers for pre-ban AR lowers.

With all the ways to make things legal out there, even though it takes a little work sometimes, there's no reason to take a chance and use illegal mags in MA.