Hi-cap mags modified to only accept 10 rounds ok in MA?

[daveshrews]

A friend of a friend has a few post-ban 15-rd handgun mags that have been modified to only accept 10 rounds. Are there any possible legal repercussions of having these in their possession?

Thanks.
D


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[Al-Jim19]

To my knowledge no...but I'm still working on my law degree

 

[Darksideblues42]

There does not seem to be a clear answer from what I can tell.

If it is a 100% permanent modification whereby any attempt to un-modify the reduction in capacity will result in the destruction of the magazine, then you are most likely OK, however, your mileage may vary as there is no clear-cut "Do X to make a permanent reduction of magazine capacity to 10 rounds or less and you will be OK" law or ruling to work from.

IANAL.

 

[greencobra]

Can't answer your question but Smith and Wesson does that with their Walther manufactured M&P .22 pistol mags. They offer both 10 and 12 round mags, only difference is a piece of plastic at the bottom of the 12 rounder to make it only accept 10 rounds. Works for them but beware until your buddy gets an answer before he brags how clever he is.

 

[Nation On Fire]

If you're committing a crime so horrible that the police check to see that your mag holds 10 rounds but has a hunch and takes them apart to find a block inside, you have bigger problems.

 

[greencobra]

If you're committing a crime so horrible that the police check to see that your mag holds 10 rounds but has a hunch and takes them apart to find a block inside, you have bigger problems.

It wouldn't surprise me at all. They just keep adding charge upon charge to anyone that gets arrested, just dragging them in deeper. What's the cost if someone is found with contraband magazines anyway?

 

[bandaid bandit]

It wouldn't surprise me at all. They just keep adding charge upon charge to anyone that gets arrested, just dragging them in deeper. What's the cost if someone is found with contraband magazines anyway?

The state pays for a mandated sex change operation, with a rusty scalpel

 

[Nation On Fire]

That's why you don't get arrested.

 

[MAGG]

That's why you don't get arrested.

how many people start their day saying " I hope I get arrested today " haha...sometimes with peeps its inevitable

 

[Gillham]

Open to interpretation - is a 30 rd mag pinned to 10 rds the same as a collapsible stock pinned to be fixed?

 

[noxin]

despite what everyone in this thread says, the only correct answer is "It hasn't been tested in court yet".

Very few people are willing to waste money handicapping a perfectly good magazine to comply with a law. Others just buy the 10 round mags and/or pre-ban. and still others just ignore the law.

 

[dcmdon]

If you're committing a crime so horrible that the police check to see that your mag holds 10 rounds but has a hunch and takes them apart to find a block inside, you have bigger problems.

Why? Have you ever looked at a M&P 15-22 mag? Its got a freaking roll pin in it to restrict its capacity.

Don

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Anyone who claims to have a definitive answer is guessing.

 

[dcmdon]

Yup.

To the OP.

Any cop can arrest you for whatever he thinks you have done.

Any prosecutor can choose to prosecute you for something he thinks you have done.

Until someone is actually arrested, prosecuted and goes to trial for something like this, nobody actually knows.

If you have Mass Beaten Down Dog syndrome, then its probably not a good choice for you since you will live in constant fear of having a tactical team visit your home, shoot your dog, and take your mags.

In case you aren't familiar with it, MA beaten down dog syndrome can be identified as such:

• If you own more than 1 trigger lock, you have MA beaten down Dog syndrome.
• If you put a trigger lock on your gun for transport, you have Mass beaten down dog syndrome.
• If you are worried about that empty .22 shell case that you can't find somewhere in your car. You DEFINITELY have MBDDS.
• If you put your over/under shotgun in a locked case for transport, you have Mass beaten down dog syndrome.
• If you have ever uttered or written the word "massprudence", you may have beaten down dog syndrome
• If you believe that Glocks are "illegal" in MA, you have beaten down dog syndrome.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yup.

To the OP.

Any cop can arrest you for whatever he thinks you have done.

Any prosecutor can choose to prosecute you for something he thinks you have done.

Until someone is actually arrested, prosecuted and goes to trial for something like this, nobody actually knows.

To put a point on this . . . if there are markings for >10 rds on the back/side of a mag, expect a cop/DA to believe it to be a large-capacity mag and behave accordingly.

Most people I know aren't desirous of spending $5K to defend the position that butchering the mag made it legal, so they either carry pre-ban mags or stick with 10 rd or less.

YMMV

 

[Smokewagon]

Yup.

In case you aren't familiar with it, MA beaten down dog syndrome can be identified as such:

• If you own more than 1 trigger lock, you have MA beaten down Dog syndrome.

Are we supposed to throw them away? Everytime I buy a new gun it comes with one, I've got 6 or 8 still in the plastic bags they came in.

 

[noxin]

Are we supposed to throw them away? Everytime I buy a new gun it comes with one, I've got 6 or 8 still in the plastic bags they came in.

Haha, I was just going to respond with the same question! They come in handy as small locks though

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Why? Have you ever looked at a M&P 15-22 mag? Its got a freaking roll pin in it to restrict its capacity.

Don

I know people who have taken out that pin and it now is high cap but it must be ok with the pin as it is Mass Compliant.

same should be the case for pins in other mags

 

[7.62x39]

A friend of a friend has a few post-ban 15-rd handgun mags that have been modified to only accept 10 rounds. Are there any possible legal repercussions of having these in their possession

I guess that would depend on how they were modified and what their opinion is of what constitutes "readily convertible". Based on the way the law is written I don't think simple pinning is going to fly.

Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells...

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I guess that would depend on how they were modified and what their opinion is of what constitutes "readily convertible". Based on the way the law is written I don't think simple pinning is going to fly.

Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells...

Then how does Smith & Wesson sell pinned magazines for their AR15-22's in this state in all the gun shops and all the gun shows? It is simply pinned and a drill and a minute will remove the pin, viola large cap mag.
I think the "readily" is the key, IMOP readily usually means without tools

 

[AngelKing]

not sure, but would never want that in a defensive handgun for many reasons, legal, practical and (non) functional.

 

[7.62x39]

Then how does Smith & Wesson sell pinned magazines for their AR15-22's in this state in all the gun shops and all the gun shows? It is simply pinned and a drill and a minute will remove the pin, viola large cap mag.
I think the "readily" is the key, IMOP readily usually means without tools

There has to be more to it than that.
I could take a sheet metal screw and simply screw it into the side of the mag to stop it at 10 rounds. It would take a tool (screwdriver) to remove it. The fact that it requires a tool, doesn't change the fact that it could be "converted" to full capacity in 30 seconds or less.

 

[dcmdon]

There has to be more to it than that.
I could take a sheet metal screw and simply screw it into the side of the mag to stop it at 10 rounds. It would take a tool (screwdriver) to remove it. The fact that it requires a tool, doesn't change the fact that it could be "converted" to full capacity in 30 seconds or less.

Thats too simple.

But a draw rivet (pop rivet) might be another story. There is a difference between drilling something out that is not meant to come out, and simply removing a screw.

But like Rob said, if something is marked to go over 10, expect some trouble. The S&W M&P 15-22 mags are unmarked. But they can be easily differentiated by the color of the follower (blue vs orange I believe) and the presence of a loading button on the follower.

Don

 

[DarrenL]

There is a company called magblocks, they sell these plastic inserts that you are supposed to glue to the follower, and the extra length blocks more than 10 (or whatever) rounds. This would make it "not readily convertible", unless of course you had a spare set of followers. But you could also glue the baseplate to the mag body, so you could not switch out followers easily, or ever do maintenance on the magazine.

Of course, the discussion is moot, because there is no case law, guidance, or anything. Maybe we can ask the state for some guidance???....

 

[Len-2A Training]

Of course, the discussion is moot, because there is no case law, guidance, or anything. Maybe we can ask the state for some guidance???....

The problem is WHO do you ask in the "state". A clerk, a database person, a supervisor? That's all FRB has. Ask 3 Troopers and you'll likely get 4 different answers!

Not only do we not have any technical expertise in the state gov't, nobody with any gun knowledge has ever been designated with the job of answering such questions.

 

[dcmdon]

The problem is WHO do you ask in the "state". A clerk, a database person, a supervisor? That's all FRB has. Ask 3 Troopers and you'll likely get 4 different answers!

Not only do we not have any technical expertise in the state gov't, nobody with any gun knowledge has ever been designated with the job of answering such questions.

In a way it doesn't matter. If you could show that you exercised due diligence and got an answer from someone in writing, it would greatly assist in your defense. In fact it would probably get you off. But how much have you spent by that point in time. And when they kick in your door to take your guns, and they found 3 cases under your workbench and then charge you with 3 counts of failing to properly store ammunition.

Like I said tongue in cheek before. You take a chance getting arrested every time you leave your home with anything other than a bolt action rifle or a revolver.

Don

 

[warwickben]

Why? Have you ever looked at a M&P 15-22 mag? Its got a freaking roll pin in it to restrict its capacity.

Don

You can stick one side of a needle nose plier in there and rotate it out .

 

[dcmdon]

You can stick one side of a needle nose plier in there and rotate it out .

Yes. for a while after Sandy Hook, I got some mags for CT people that were the long 10 rounders. They were all that were available. Some people drilled out the pin.

Others just stuck a drift down into the mag and banged the pin out of the way. All they cared about was that they got these mags into their hands prior to any CT legislative action.

Then they bought some of these load assist buttons: http://www.raveneyecustom.com/Pages/MP1522.aspx

You can also break the little nubbie off the back of the follower. Thats REALLY easy. You can do it with your bare hands. But then the mag won't lock the bolt open on an empty mag.

Don

 

[warwickben]

I forget get who made the 10 rd clear mag that works with the cmmg kits . The 10 rd mag has a extra nub that stops the follower . They used the same spring and follower on them. If you pressed the 11 rd in very hard it would pop off and I think it would take 15 or 20 rds after that . The full size mags looked like they cut the nub off with a razor blade .

 

[dcmdon]

Black Dog Machine?

a/k/a BDM?