Heckler & Koch back in Massachusetts

[Kalahari]

They don't have a decent lawyer telling them they can file the other calibers without testing...

How do you like your 45? Do they shoot as incredibly as they feel? I'm thinking after I pick up the other HK stuff I want I'll go for one of those.

 

[Titan]

Anyone have a guess about approximate retail prices?

 

[drgrant]

Anyone have a guess about approximate retail prices?

If the MA SKUs aren't any different than the free state ones, figure gunbroker average + transfer as a baseline. Obviously in MA if you buy it from a dealer here you'll get whacked the 6.25% sales tax, too.

-Mike

 

[Titan]

If the MA SKUs aren't any different than the free state ones, figure gunbroker average + transfer as a baseline. Obviously in MA if you buy it from a dealer here you'll get whacked the 6.25% sales tax, too.

-Mike

Thanks. Sounds like the pre-tax ballpark is betwen $750-ish and $900, depending on model.

 

[PaulD]

If the MA SKUs aren't any different than the free state ones, figure gunbroker average + transfer as a baseline. Obviously in MA if you buy it from a dealer here you'll get whacked the 6.25% sales tax, too.

-Mike

That's not completely true. The M version of SIG P series does carry a different SKU, as one example. I would think the M&Ps do also though in both cases, MSRP is the same as the free state version. This is part of why manufacturers are reluctant to play in MA as every SKU has overhead associated with it.

I think the selling price at Bud's +5-10% is a reasonable gauge also.

 

[Shepherd]

it is true...but theres only 5 models going compliant...dont get too excited

Sorry brother, you know I love ya but there are 9 different models

Heckler & Koch USP .40 S&W
Heckler & Koch USP Comp LEM .40 S&W
HK45
HK45C
P30 9mm DA/SA and LEM
P30 L DA/SA
P30 .40 with Safety

oh yeah and these P.O.S.
Heckler & Koch P2000 .357 Sig
Heckler & Koch P2000SK .357 Sig

 

[Titan]

Sorry brother, you know I love ya but there are 9 different models

Heckler & Koch USP .40 S&W
Heckler & Koch USP Comp LEM .40 S&W
HK45
HK45C
P30 9mm DA/SA and LEM
P30 L DA/SA
P30 .40 with Safety

oh yeah and these P.O.S.
Heckler & Koch P2000 .357 Sig
Heckler & Koch P2000SK .357 Sig

Or 9 variations of six models.

The models...
HK 45
HK 45 Compact
HK USP
HK USP Compact
P30
P2000

Possible?

 

[Kalahari]

How exactly is the P2000 a piece of $#!7? I've heard nothing but good things and the gun feels great.

 

[Len-2A Training]

And I have a prediction. All of those people in this post who say they don't believe it will happen - won't buy one even when it does happen.

I still don't believe it will happen, but your prediction is right here . . . I already own 2 H&K USPc models plus the P7M8 and won't be looking for any more. Jim Crews shoots everyone's gun at the beginning of his training courses and he had some disparaging words for the trigger on my USP 40c (this was back in 2004). He was right, I measured it and wasn't impressed . . . shot a 1911 (a lot better too) in subsequent courses. I have since replaced a spring that was supposed to make a big difference . . . ah huh, it dropped trigger pull by 1 # DA. The guns are expensive safe queens.

Everyone wants them because they are hard to get in MA and very expensive, but I'll take my M&P over the USPc any day as a working gun.

 

[Kalahari]

I still don't believe it will happen, but your prediction is right here . . . I already own 2 H&K USPc models plus the P7M8 and won't be looking for any more. Jim Crews shoots everyone's gun at the beginning of his training courses and he had some disparaging words for the trigger on my USP 40c (this was back in 2004). He was right, I measured it and wasn't impressed . . . shot a 1911 (a lot better too) in subsequent courses. I have since replaced a spring that was supposed to make a big difference . . . ah huh, it dropped trigger pull by 1 # DA. The guns are expensive safe queens.

Everyone wants them because they are hard to get in MA and very expensive, but I'll take my M&P over the USPc any day as a working gun.

Good. More HK goodness for me

 

[terraformer]

How do you like your 45? Do they shoot as incredibly as they feel? I'm thinking after I pick up the other HK stuff I want I'll go for one of those.

I describe it as the 1911 John Browning's great great grandson would make.

 

[PaulD]

I describe it as the 1911 John Browning's great great grandson would make.

That's a very good description.

 

[Number 6]

My recollection is that Larry Vickers had substantial input into the HK45 / HK45c and his intention was for it to be the replacement for the 1911.

It does have a very ergonomic 1911 feel to it.

That's a very good description.

 

[firecontrol123]

Yesterday i talked to MA dealer and he told me that HK coming to Mass with many models MA compliant.
I hope it will happen.
Did anyone heard of this?

I heard that too, only it was about 5 years ago.

 

[Titan]

I'm sure they're fine guns, but I question how something like a model 23 (a polymer gun) can be worth something in the neighborhood of $2,000!

A polymer gun priced at that level ought to come with a free 5 day training class!

 

[MassMark]

I'm sure they're fine guns, but I question how something like a model 23 (a polymer gun) can be worth something in the neighborhood of $2,000!

A polymer gun priced at that level ought to come with a free 5 day training class!

Worth is in the eye of the beholder...Shoot one and you will understand. I have an HK USP45f and absolutely adore it...For me, it's the best .45ACP there is....

 

[drgrant]

I'm sure they're fine guns, but I question how something like a model 23 (a polymer gun) can be worth something in the neighborhood of $2,000!

The MK23 is not worth $2000, at least not to most people. To those who have owned or want one, though, it's worth every penny. I had one and I kinda miss not having it anymore. It was a beast.

-Mike

 

[M1911]

I already own 2 H&K USPc models plus the P7M8 and won't be looking for any more. Jim Crews shoots everyone's gun at the beginning of his training courses and he had some disparaging words for the trigger on my USP 40c (this was back in 2004). He was right, I measured it and wasn't impressed . . . shot a 1911 (a lot better too) in subsequent courses. I have since replaced a spring that was supposed to make a big difference . . . ah huh, it dropped trigger pull by 1 # DA. The guns are expensive safe queens.

I sold my HK USPc .40. I still have an HK USPc .45. The SA trigger is ok. A gunsmith I spoke with said that there isn't that much that can be done to improve it, as the HK trigger bar is stamped steel and relatively floppy. The DA trigger requires two men and a come-along -- ugh, it's awful. I'm not a big fan of the magazine release.

The USPc does have some things going for it. It is accurate and reliable. The large trigger guard is easily used with gloves. The slide stop is in the right place, is generously sized, and well shaped.

All in all, my USPc is a safe queen. (No, I'm not going to sell it.)

I would like to try the HK45c.

 

[seanc]

The MK23 is not worth $2000, at least not to most people. To those who have owned or want one, though, it's worth every penny. I had one and I kinda miss not having it anymore. It was a beast.

-Mike

The mk23 really is an awesome piece. But it is incomplete w/o the knight's. W/o the suppressor, to me it's an oversized USP tactical. Still very cool and accurate, but only part of the equation..

I like HK a lot and have had a lot of them over the years. IMO the USP series (and I will include the PXXXXX) are pretty much the same as everything else out there, Glock, M&P, etc. But, just over all nicer, fit, finish, feel.. I have still to find anything as nice as the P7 and the P9s though. both are amazing.

 

[drgrant]

I sold my HK USPc .40. I still have an HK USPc .45. The SA trigger is ok. A gunsmith I spoke with said that there isn't that much that can be done to improve it, as the HK trigger bar is stamped steel and relatively floppy. The DA trigger requires two men and a come-along -- ugh, it's awful.

With a 12 lb Wolff mainspring and an hour or two worth of gently polishing certain parts (basically, every place that the trigger, trigger bar, hammer, and strut touch) the DA can be improved considerably on USP series pistols. Takes nearly all the "gritty stacky s**ty" feeling right out of the DA trigger.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

How exactly is the P2000 a piece of $#!7? I've heard nothing but good things and the gun feels great.

I would never buy a DA/SA P2000. The decocker on the P2K sucks. (It's this little button thats in the back of the
slide. Failures are often reported with it too (like the linkage breaking). I'd only ever buy a LEM P2K. (I owned a .40 S+W LEM, and it was a good gun overall. )

-Mike

 

[M1911]

Takes nearly all the "gritty stacky s**ty" feeling right out of the DA trigger.

"gritty stacky s**ty" is a perfect description of the USPc DA trigger.

 

[Len-2A Training]

"gritty stacky s**ty" is a perfect description of the USPc DA trigger.

Yup, and I failed to mention H&K's superb customer service!

Called them in 1999 and they were going to ship me replacement sights for my USP 45c . . . I'm still waiting for them . . . NOT! At least they were free, so I got what I paid for.

In contrast, I mentioned a potential issue with old, Glock hi-cap mags to Fred (Glock's Tech Supt guy) and he offered and shipped me free replacement followers, springs and baseplates without my asking . . . his only question was "how many do you need?" And they arrived within a week.

I called S&W Tech Supt to get the finger rest baseplate for my M&P 9c and they shipped it free and fast.

H&K makes a nice product, way overpriced and their customer support is bottom-of-the-barrel if you ever need it.

 

[Kalahari]

I would never buy a DA/SA P2000. The decocker on the P2K sucks. (It's this little button thats in the back of the
slide. Failures are often reported with it too (like the linkage breaking). I'd only ever buy a LEM P2K. (I owned a .40 S+W LEM, and it was a good gun overall. )

-Mike

I haven't heard the same concerns, but I'll have to look around for them. I do like the sound of the LEM trigger but, of course, I need to try it myself...Just gripping both the 2000 and 2000sk, however, I think I'll love both.

H&K makes a nice product, way overpriced and their customer support is bottom-of-the-barrel if you ever need it.

Overpriced? H&Ks run for the same amount of money as any Sig or high-end 1911 at the shows down here. I know that isn't the case necessarily up in Mass., but that isn't the fault of H&K..

 

[seanc]

I would never buy a DA/SA P2000. The decocker on the P2K sucks. (It's this little button thats in the back of the
slide. Failures are often reported with it too (like the linkage breaking). I'd only ever buy a LEM P2K. (I owned a .40 S+W LEM, and it was a good gun overall. )

-Mike

I have a p2000sk.. I really like it. The only down side is that it is a 40... I just wish it was a 9mm..

 

[drgrant]

Overpriced? H&Ks run for the same amount of money as any Sig or high-end 1911 at the shows down here. I know that isn't the case necessarily up in Mass., but that isn't the fault of H&K..

When compared to other polymer framed handguns, HKs are an order of magnitude more expensive, all MA pricing BS aside. It's up to the buyer to decide whether or not its worth it, but there is no disputing that HK produces the most expensive polymer framed handguns on the market.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I have a p2000sk.. I really like it. The only down side is that it is a 40... I just wish it was a 9mm..

I almost bought an SK. Is yours a LEM? The LEM ones seem to be "rare" for some reason.

-Mike

 

[Kalahari]

When compared to other polymer framed handguns, HKs are an order of magnitude more expensive, all MA pricing BS aside. It's up to the buyer to decide whether or not its worth it, but there is no disputing that HK produces the most expensive polymer framed handguns on the market.

-Mike

You're right, it's up to the buyer. At least in my case, polymer or not makes little difference when overall quality is the same.

 

[pdm]

Yup, and I failed to mention H&K's superb customer service!

Called them in 1999 and they were going to ship me replacement sights for my USP 45c . . . I'm still waiting for them . . . NOT! At least they were free, so I got what I paid for.

In contrast, I mentioned a potential issue with old, Glock hi-cap mags to Fred (Glock's Tech Supt guy) and he offered and shipped me free replacement followers, springs and baseplates without my asking . . . his only question was "how many do you need?" And they arrived within a week.

I called S&W Tech Supt to get the finger rest baseplate for my M&P 9c and they shipped it free and fast.

H&K makes a nice product, way overpriced and their customer support is bottom-of-the-barrel if you ever need it.

Is their support better for law enforcement organizations, I wonder? Maybe that's all they care about.

 

[seanc]

I almost bought an SK. Is yours a LEM? The LEM ones seem to be "rare" for some reason.

-Mike

Unfortunately.... I have no idea. With ammo prices being what they are, and it being a 40.. it just never gets out much. It has been at least a year since I took it out and just can't remember either way definitely. I think it is just a straight Da/Sa.. But it very well might be an LEM..

I guess THAT one goes to Harvard w/me next saturday...The MP40 is feeling unloved and needs an outing..