Handcuffed, disarmed for obeying the law

[codenamepaul]

There was nothing one can do but comply. The police have a very wide latitude to detain someone in a circumstance like this for exactly the same reasons the officer articulated. There has not been a case to my knowledge where the affected person being a licensed CCW changed that.

BS
Okay-so don't comply in a nice way. Wait for the aforementioned back-up to arrive and explain it to the senior office arriving.

 

[cricco]

But neither is tolerating the increasing abuse of the lawfully armed.

Scrivner, I dare say that LAWYERS have done FAR more to damage this country AND our constitution than ANY Police Officer. Isn't Obama a lawyer? How about Hillary and Bill Clinton? Let's not forget Martha Coakley. Are any of them named Scrivner? Of course not, but folks like them cause the general public to paint all attorneys with the same broad brush. I'm sure there are many great attorneys (though i can't think of any at the moment) who have done great things for the nation, AND the constitution. My complaints aren't so much with this thread, as they are with the general anti-police sentiment that seems to be gaining momentum on this forum. YOU of all people should understand what I'm trying to say here. Try to imagine how one might feel if there was a constant barage of anti lawyer threads, or anti mechanic threads, or anti anything threads. There are bad cops out there. there are very bad lawyers. I just KNOW that there are EVIL mechanics, as I was just quoted $1000 to repair an exhaust leak. If people take issue with something that a Police Officer has done, then address the incident and/or the Officer involved. Don't call ME and my constitution loving BROTHERS a jack booted thug, a Nazi, or a Pig. I would lay my life down in a heartbeat for any man or woman on the job, as they would for me, and I am personally offended by the attacks on the profession as a whole.

 

[red87930]

So she was disarming him and handcuffing him for her safety but what about his safety? He was now a target in the event someone was still in the office. Some criminal could have jumped out of a closet shot them both and ran off. I understand the whole thing about officer safety and all but I think a case like this seems a little ridiculous. Do police cuff every law abiding citizen they come across when called to a scene just to make it "safe" for them?

If he has trained at Front Site and Tactical response he may be better equipped to handle a BG jumping out of the closet than she was as the Newbie LEO. She not only put his life in Jeopardy but hers as well. Anyone that would take the weapon then stick it in a receptionists drawer rather than return it to the lawfuly licensed owner has a serious insecurity lack of training issue and is likely going to freeze in a force on force situation. And this is not an anti LE position just a commentary on this seemingly f-ed up interaaction. I have the utmost respect for LE and any other proffession FD, MIL, MED that counts on people putting it all out there in the intrest of doing community good.

 

[BossHarley]

Cricco I am with you 100%.

Not every member or even the majority of (insert group whether they be police, lawyers, even democrats) are evil bastards that want to take away your rights.
I personally know a number of each of the mentioned groups that are 100% supporters of the 2nd amendment. I also know others that respectfully disagree. This is after all America where we are allowed to have our own beliefs is it not.

Of course there are bad apples in every part of society - including individuals that hold the same basic beliefs that are talked about and fought for on this forum.
Here in NE there might be a larger proportion of of anti-gun nuts, but we need to find a way to live with them while educating and informing and fighting to keep our rights.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Gadsden]

Maybe my perception is off, but I don't see that as an "evil legions of police doing bad things" issue. It seems to be more of an "idiot rookie cop making a bad decision" issue. Just because someone is a cop does not mean they won't do stupid things, and sadly people tend to point the finger at all cops... just as the liberals do with all gun owners when one does something stupid.

 

[cricco]

Just because someone is a cop does not mean they won't do stupid things, and sadly people tend to point the finger at all cops... just as the liberals do with all gun owners when one does something stupid.

That sums it up nicely. Thank you.

 

[Scrivener]

Scrivner, [sic] I dare say that LAWYERS have done FAR more to damage this country AND our constitution than ANY Police Officer. Isn't Obama a lawyer? How about Hillary and Bill Clinton? Let's not forget Martha Coakley. Are any of them named Scrivner [sic]? Of course not, but folks like them cause the general public to paint all attorneys with the same broad brush. .... If people take issue with something that a Police Officer has done, then address the incident and/or the Officer involved. Don't call ME and my constitution loving BROTHERS a jack booted thug, a Nazi, or a Pig. I would lay my life down in a heartbeat for any man or woman on the job, as they would for me, and I am personally offended by the attacks on the profession as a whole.

Take a breath.

Get a grip.

Then, get a CLUE.

No-one here called you OR any police officer

a jack booted thug, a Nazi, or a Pig,

still less me.

Unless you can PROVE your accusations, you should reconsider them.

 

[dwarven1]

It angers me greatly when someone takes a story on the internet as gospel and interpret's it in such a way as to let it anger them.

I'm curious, Half Cocked - how do YOU interpret that story? Is that something you would do in her place, assuming that the story is correct?

That right there answers your question Scrivner. Same old shit every time someone mentions the Police. It just gets really over played here. There are quite a few NES members that are LEOs. It's starting to feel like being the black sheep of the family around here. As I've said before, most police Officers are pro 2A guys. Directing your anger towards authority at them isn't going to further the cause. What I mean to say is......can't we all just get along? LOL!

Sure we can! Just as soon as your brothers in blue stop thinking that they're somehow superior to civilians, and stop thinking that they're the only ones profeshnul enough to carry a gun, etc. I don't understand this attitude of "well, they're pro-2a, so even if they screw up, you should forgive them". IF the story happened as reported, I think it's a disgrace and that she should be sued for false arrest... or do you think that the building contractor committed enough of a crime that he should have been detained?

 

[Half Cocked]

I'm curious, Half Cocked - how do YOU interpret that story? Is that something you would do in her place, assuming that the story is correct?

I would like to know more before commenting. As reported, if accurate, she over reacted although not necessarily to the degree that others here would think.

I would like to know the following...

1) How was the call dispatched? It was 5am I believe... not noontime.
2) Is this in what Las Vegas would describe as a high crime area?
3) Was it reported as a burglary in progress or a burglary occupring in the past?
4) Did the victim advise the dispatcher that he was on location and armed? Did this maybe get relayed inaccurately to the officer as being a burglary in progress with an armed man?

There are many potential unmentioned variables that are not mentioned. Some of which the victim may not even know about. If so, shame on the officers for not explaining those to the victim after the scene was secured.

Let's also not forget that licensed gun owners (albeit very rarely) have been known to commit crimes and people have been known to lie to the police so the fact that he identified himself and was cooperative when the officer arrived she did not know definitively that he was not a bad guy. (I have been burned by this before)

All in all I think that she over reacted but I would like more info. I would like to know WTF she was thinking with the gun in the drawer....

 

[codenamepaul]

According to the article-He presented his license on arrival. He made the call as the business owner. That alone should have been sufficient to allow him to retain his firearm. Should she have assumed a more protective posture regarding him? Perhaps. She would be well within her rights to do so to maintain her personal safety, but that does not give her the right or authority to disarm him. That also gives him the right to respectfully not comply.

 

[fubar]

How about this ?

Policewoman mistreated a citizen .
People got mad.

Police Department owes citizen a goddman apology , and as part of it make it clear to other officers that good guys are allowed , in America , to carry a pistol.

This makes individual LEO's not the target of angry citizens , corrects the problem , and prevents it from happening again.

It takes one apology & one departmental memo.

 

[Scrivener]

One could actually understand the cop securing the citizen's sidearm. I'd be damn unhappy if it were me, but I could see the responding officer's desire to remove variables until she had confirmed what actually happened or back-up arrived.

CUFFING the person who MADE the call?

AFTER he provided full ID?

In the utter absence of ANY inappropriate actions on his part?

HELL, no.

 

[RFWAVELENGTH]

After several successful break-ins, the owner of the business should have contracted with Brinks, ADT or one of those other companies that provide "central station" alarm response service. Since it was exclusively for the security of his business, he would be able to write it off as a tax-deductible expense. Since these alarms are "silent", the monitoring service would notify the local PD and the chances of catching the burglars in action would be fairly high.

 

[drgrant]

After several successful break-ins, the owner of the business should have contracted with Brinks, ADT or one of those other companies that provide "central station" alarm response service. Since it was exclusively for the security of his business, he would be able to write it off as a tax-deductible expense. Since these alarms are "silent", the monitoring service would notify the local PD and the chances of catching the burglars in action would be fairly high.

Do you have any idea what typical PD response time to a burglar alarm call is? I set one off by accident once at my customer's place (one of the numbers was worn out on the keypad, so when I put my code in it failed to work properly) and it took 20 minutes for the police to show up. Response time is gonna be fast in a place that has little to no crime, but in a place like Vegas? Forget it. Many of the big cities in the US barely have enough manpower to adequately cover what they have, nevermind a burglar alarm call. (Which, because of falsing, they probably deal with a ton of those every night. )

It's not a terrible idea, granted (eg, for other reasons, such as insurance) but a typical thief is not going to hang around long enough, unless he's like that guy on the liquor store video that gets trapped inside the store.

FWIW I have direct experience with this. I rented an office inside a store with a central station alarm. Theives broke into the place 3 times and the police missed them every time. 95% of thieves break in, take whatever they can get, and get out in minutes.

-Mike

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Do you have any idea what typical PD response time to a burglar alarm call is? I set one off by accident once at my customer's place (one of the numbers was worn out on the keypad, so when I put my code in it failed to work properly) and it took 20 minutes for the police to show up. Response time is gonna be fast in a place that has little to no crime, but in a place like Vegas? Forget it. Many of the big cities in the US barely have enough manpower to adequately cover what they have, nevermind a burglar alarm call. (Which, because of falsing, they probably deal with a ton of those every night. )

It's not a terrible idea, granted (eg, for other reasons, such as insurance) but a typical thief is not going to hang around long enough, unless he's like that guy on the liquor store video that gets trapped inside the store.

FWIW I have direct experience with this. I rented an office inside a store with a central station alarm. Theives broke into the place 3 times and the police missed them every time. 95% of thieves break in, take whatever they can get, and get out in minutes.

-Mike

Good point Dr. What makes it worse is location. I live on the border of Medford and Malden. There was someone trying to jump from the radio tower to commit suicide. After calling the Medford police directly, they didn't show up for 30 minutes (couldn't find the street and then a pissing match over who takes the call). So guess who had to try and talk this guy out of it? Just one more reason to own a gun. When you are seconds from death, Medford police is 30 minutes away.