Gun owners vs. Shooters

[DeadEyeDan]

That's a bullshit stat (and term), put out by an anti-sponsored "survey" of self-reported "gun owners." It's designed to mislead the public into believing that the massive increase in gun purchases are fueled by some small percentage of "hoarders" who own hundreds of guns, and not the rank-and-file Average Joe who wants a gun to protect themselves.

I don't believe the concept for a minute.

Well it sort of rings true to my personal experience, People I know tend to have 1-2 or 30+... The 1-2 people own something for self protection, the other group the same but also a few collectors items, a few range toys, a few for hunting of this, and a few for hunting that, a few for this shooting sport and a few for that shooting sport, etc... hence the 30+ number... I don’t see many in between.

 

[JRT]

I would say that the percentage of gun owners that regularly practice with the firearms they own is relatively small. I would also conjecture that the small percentage of shooters most likely overlap with the small percentage of Mega Gun owner, the 3% of the population that owns 50% of the firearms in the US. For example my gun club has about 250 members, but the number that I see with any regularity at the range is less then a dozen... and that is a group of people that have a membership to a club, how many gun owner don’t even bother with that?

The guy doing draw and dry fire drills x20 in his basement is probably training harder than you. Being seen at your club shooting paper is not training.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Moral of the story is...don't sign in, because weird people are looking at/for your name.

You have to look at the upside. If someone is getting killed on the other side of town, you have established an alibi. And sign ins are nothing compared to the very common card key based entrance systems in which case many can even generate a report of when your card has been used going back years.

 

[Bistro]

Jesus Christ...people actually LOOK at the logs? That's creepy dude status right there.

I was so happy when I lived 15 minutes from my range...it was (almost) on my way to/from work and I could stop by whenever I wanted (24 hr indoor range). But I never even THOUGHT that someone was looking at my 'log-in/out' data.

Now that I'm a billion miles from my range and there's no sign in, I don't care so much...but I was on the roster at my old club at least once or twice a week.

Moral of the story is...don't sign in, because weird people are looking at/for your name.

Just as creepy of the brass rat waiting for you after every shot



I’m on the same boat. The range was on my way to work, so I stopped by there 3-4 times at week. Years later that change and have a kid and my job is demanding. I usually go with my buddy when he’s not working but we are hardly in sync with off days.

 

[fencer]

The way I look at it, the greater the number of gun owners the better. There are a lot of gun owners that feel they really need a gun for self defense, buy a firearm, take it to the range a couple of times, then put it in a shoe box at the top of their closet, forever. They have exactly one box of ammo stored with the gun and it is a box of FMJ.

This is good. Because when the pols start talking about taking away guns, they think " I don't want to give up MY gun!" because it makes them feel better to know it is there.
Granted, they can't hit the ocean from the beach and don't have a holster to carry it, but they still are "gun owners" and hopefully will vote that way.

 

[DeadEyeDan]

The guy doing draw and dry fire drills x20 in his basement is probably training harder than you. Being seen at your club shooting paper is not training.

What is training in your book? Doing IDPA, GSSF, Etc matches regularly? Going to Thunder Ranch or Sig for classes? Just curious, not trying to trigger anyone here... (But looks like I failed). This post was “Triggered” by conversations I have had with a few new gun owners and a majority of the ones I’ve spoken to haven’t shot the things yet... I have been advocating for them to put in the time and effort to become familiar with the operation of firearms they have bought...

 

[DJBrad]

I only go to my range to sight stuff in cause they don't allow you to draw from a holster or even have more than one gun on the line at a time. The next closest place I shoot is an hour away but it's a sandpit and I can do whatever I want. Problem is with 2 kids, ammo shortage and all it's tough to get the time. I need to take more classes at Sig academy and force myself out there.

I’m in a similar situation with three kids and an ailing MIL. I try to get there when I can “steal” away. I’m shooting the cheapest ammo I have right now. 12 gauge, .22lr, and x39. My range is open for 10 guns on the table, as much ammo as I need to shoot, steel plates setup at 25, 50, and 100.

 

[EJFudd]

Just as creepy of the brass rat waiting for you after every shot

View attachment 385208

LOL!!!!! Just sprayed hot coffee all over my screen! Thanks a lot!

 

[alan226]

I would say that the percentage of gun owners that regularly practice with the firearms they own is relatively small. I would also conjecture that the small percentage of shooters most likely overlap with the small percentage of Mega Gun owner, the 3% of the population that owns 50% of the firearms in the US. For example my gun club has about 250 members, but the number that I see with any regularity at the range is less then a dozen... and that is a group of people that have a membership to a club, how many gun owner don’t even bother with that?

While you may be correct, you aren't at the club 24x7. When I was working odd hours, it was not unusual for me to go shoot at 3am. Or at 10am when most others are working. I would purposely not go on the weekends because it was busy. With my work and family schedule, I also don't shoot as much as I used to. I used to go once a week. Now I'm lucky if I go once a month.

Life happens...

 

[allen-1]

Well it sort of rings true to my personal experience, People I know tend to have 1-2 or 30+... The 1-2 people own something for self protection, the other group the same but also a few collectors items, a few range toys, a few for hunting of this, and a few for hunting that, a few for this shooting sport and a few for that shooting sport, etc... hence the 30+ number... I don’t see many in between.

A friend of mine is retired military, and a "gun guy". He's currently working on milling slides for Glocks and milling an entire SCAR-17. Yeah, he's one of "those guys".

Anyhow - he and his family were here today for brunch, and I asked him to give me a hand cleaning my AR's. I think I know what I'm doing, but he's got literally years of experience with the platform. So, we pulled out the three I shot most recently and cleaned them. And he's laughing at me - "you've got a lot of AR's". I respond "I dunno, I've got my red dot one, my scoped one, my long distance one, my 9mm one, Lisa's, oh yeah and a couple of pistols".

He laughs, and says "Yeah - 7 of them. And three more in CT; that's a lot of ARs".

Hmmm. Before Sandy Hook and the laws passed afterwards - I didn't have any ARs.

And yeah, I've got 2 pistols that are purely for self-defense, a couple more (maybe 4 or 7) for competition, a couple revolvers, a couple of .22 rifles, a couple of shotguns, (well - actually three). And then there's that Remington 700 .308, the Mossberg Predator bolt action in 5.56, and the Rossi .38/.357 carbine in the back of the safe. And then a couple of 1911's, and a 1911 in 9mm - and those little Sigs in .380. Plus four .22 pistols...

And suddenly I've got something like 40 guns here in GA.
And probably another dozen or so in CT.

They just kind of accumulate.

 

[DeadEyeDan]

A friend of mine is retired military, and a "gun guy". He's currently working on milling slides for Glocks and milling an entire SCAR-17. Yeah, he's one of "those guys".

Anyhow - he and his family were here today for brunch, and I asked him to give me a hand cleaning my AR's. I think I know what I'm doing, but he's got literally years of experience with the platform. So, we pulled out the three I shot most recently and cleaned them. And he's laughing at me - "you've got a lot of AR's". I respond "I dunno, I've got my red dot one, my scoped one, my long distance one, my 9mm one, Lisa's, oh yeah and a couple of pistols".

He laughs, and says "Yeah - 7 of them. And three more in CT; that's a lot of ARs".

Hmmm. Before Sandy Hook and the laws passed afterwards - I didn't have any ARs.

And yeah, I've got 2 pistols that are purely for self-defense, a couple more (maybe 4 or 7) for competition, a couple revolvers, a couple of .22 rifles, a couple of shotguns, (well - actually three). And then there's that Remington 700 .308, the Mossberg Predator bolt action in 5.56, and the Rossi .38/.357 carbine in the back of the safe. And then a couple of 1911's, and a 1911 in 9mm - and those little Sigs in .380. Plus four .22 pistols...

And suddenly I've got something like 40 guns here in GA.
And probably another dozen or so in CT.

They just kind of accumulate.

Yep it’s not stockpiling for Armageddon, it’s the slow accumulation over time... I bought my first firearm at 18 and Inherited two from my father. If you add in the guns I’ve sold over the years I average about 2 purchases a year over 34 years...

 

[robjax]

well, that was my problem. I went from being a shooter to a gun owner when I moved further away from my club. But then I forced myself to join the pistol team and the trap team to make sure I actually got to put some rounds down range on a more regular basis. It might not be combat training but it certainly keeps up my familiarity with firearms.

Then I try to make a few trips to the range in the spring and fall with my girls to shoot everything else I own that is in between a .22 and a 12ga.

I should shoot more but as others have mentioned it gets difficult to make the time.

 

[JRT]

What is training in your book? Doing IDPA, GSSF, Etc matches regularly? Going to Thunder Ranch or Sig for classes? Just curious, not trying to trigger anyone here... (But looks like I failed). This post was “Triggered” by conversations I have had with a few new gun owners and a majority of the ones I’ve spoken to haven’t shot the things yet... I have been advocating for them to put in the time and effort to become family with the operation of firearms they have bought...

I should have not used “you”, because I don’t know the extent of your training. I mean the range rats you see all the time may not be training. In reality if your firing your gun your training but that’s really training light. I have the luxury of owning a lot of land so I’ve built a range where I can practice IDPA. The best training one can do is drawing and dry firing. I do it with two snap caps so I can practice a jam. If you do this three times a week in replicated of 10 you are way ahead of the average guy. I’m an IDPA guy because I believe in the D for defensive. IDPA has changed so much over the years and not always for the better but they have generally stayed true to the defensive posture. I average a couple training programs a year, I like Sig but it’s a lot of travel and for some it’s not an insignificant fee. Here in Philadelphia we have some great options for training. Live fire and some really good simunition classes. Pre-Covid you could find a class every weekend and it’s still possible now just less numerous. My point is shooting paper will not really prepare you for surviving a confrontation. If you watch these videos the guy on the trigger first usually wins or survives. If I can get lead in the air faster than the guy trying to kill me I’m liking my chances even if I don’t hit him on the first shot.

 

[DeadEyeDan]

I should have not used “you”, because I don’t know the extent of your training. I mean the range rats you see all the time may not be training. In reality if your firing your gun your training but that’s really training light. I have the luxury of owning a lot of land so I’ve built a range where I can practice IDPA. The best training one can do is drawing and dry firing. I do it with two snap caps so I can practice a jam. If you do this three times a week in replicated of 10 you are way ahead of the average guy. I’m an IDPA guy because I believe in the D for defensive. IDPA has changed so much over the years and not always for the better but they have generally stayed true to the defensive posture. I average a couple training programs a year, I like Sig but it’s a lot of travel and for some it’s not an insignificant fee. Here in Philadelphia we have some great options for training. Live fire and some really good simunition classes. Pre-Covid you could find a class every weekend and it’s still possible now just less numerous. My point is shooting paper will not really prepare you for surviving a confrontation. If you watch these videos the guy on the trigger first usually wins or survives. If I can get lead in the air faster than the guy trying to kill me I’m liking my chances even if I don’t hit him on the first shot.

I moved to Boston from the Philly area a number of years ago, did SASS at Water and Wings and Central Jersey Rod and Gun, and IDPA and GSSF at Target World and Classic Pistol... PA is so much more gun friendly then here... Kills me that I can’t just go to a gun shop and buy the pistol I want for a reasonable price here... And trying to get an unrestricted LTC in Boston is just crazy... I’m very envious...

Back in the day, would go to work in Philly with a briefcase full of guns and hit The Firing Line or Colosimo's after work with a bunch of co-workers... that would never happen today.

 

[ScottS]

Well it sort of rings true to my personal experience, People I know tend to have 1-2 or 30+... The 1-2 people own something for self protection, the other group the same but also a few collectors items, a few range toys, a few for hunting of this, and a few for hunting that, a few for this shooting sport and a few for that shooting sport, etc... hence the 30+ number... I don’t see many in between.

I understand your point, but think about that stat in your own experience: line up 100 gun owners, and three of those guys own half of all guns owned by that group. Sound plausible? Because that's what the anti's would like us to believe.

 

[mothybee]

"definitely don’t endanger us as we typically run with a hot range."

What does this mean?

Ummmm........Zig Zag when putting out targets?

 

[DeadEyeDan]

I understand your point, but think about that stat in your own experience: line up 100 gun owners, and three of those guys own half of all guns owned by that group. Sound plausible? Because that's what the anti's would like us to believe.

I think it was 3% of the population, not just gun owners so the number would be closer to 7 out of 100 gun owners. So that would be around 110 guns for the 93(1.2 per person) and 110 for the 7(15.7 per person)...

 

[FalArAk]

I wasn’t judging, just observing... maybe getting to the point that most gun owners are casual gun owners and that the enthusiast is that the exception and may not have the support that the larger number of gun owner would suggest...

I cant afford to be an enthusiast anymore

Well I think I first started shoot around age 10... so 42 year later I’m not sure you can call me a new shooter... I’m at the point where I’m not really trying to improve so much as slow down my decline as much as possible now...

Reason I said that is because the vast majority of people I know used to shoot 1k rds a weekend, for years. People panic buy, raise prices and we can no longer replace what we shoot at a reasonable cost. All the sudden this fun shooting at 30rd mag for a cost of $2.25 raises to $9.00 it is no longer fun, but expensive.

Newer shooters are used to $.30 -$.40 a round for 5.56 as an example, I think that is an insanely high price.

My shooting hobby that used to be fun and cheap is now only fun.

Now my money goes into motorcycle stuff.

 

[citoriguy]

I haven’t shot in 2ish months due to a bike accident and breaking several bones. Life happens. Before that my name was one of the regulars at my pistol range, and very frequent where I shoot shotguns (card reads as opposed to a written log).

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I understand your point, but think about that stat in your own experience: line up 100 gun owners, and three of those guys own half of all guns owned by that group. Sound plausible? Because that's what the anti's would like us to believe.

Actually, it sounds very plausible. There are a lot of casual "own one gun" type of gun owners out there.

 

[Me Have ADD]

I'm at my range every other weekend and usually shoot one box per firearm. I have my go to guns and others that I shoot occasionally. I'd consider myself a decent shot with handguns and could improve with my rifles. I'm comfortable and don't feel like I have to blast off 500rds every time I shoot. Dry firing between range trips helps, especially when the dbags closed the ranges down for 3 months.

 

[drgrant]

I understand your point, but think about that stat in your own experience: line up 100 gun owners, and three of those guys own half of all guns owned by that group. Sound plausible? Because that's what the anti's would like us to believe.

This...

You're dead on with this, antis use "peacocking" and distortion of stats to make things look more favorable to them than they actually are.

The reality is likely far more distributed.

 

[drgrant]

Actually, it sounds very plausible. There are a lot of casual "own one gun" type of gun owners out there.

I think as time goes on even that is starting to die though, I've met an awful lot of Johnny one box types that actually have a half a dozen or even a dozen guns they just don't shoot them as much as the rest of us do.... some of the dudes I smoke cigars with are like that I wouldn't exactly call them "hardcore gun enthusiasts" but they all own more than a couple guns, at least 6+ apiece.

 

[RKG]

I suspect, without any data to back up my suspicion, that the OP's observations are accurate. I also suspect (same limitation) that a similar distribution applies to a lot of sports and hobbies. And if my suspicions are accurate, that implies that the spectral distributions result from innate human differences, not from anything unique to any given sport or hobby. And if that is true, then we're not going to change it, assuming we should want to. After all, isn't the one-gun, one-range-trip-a-year guy as entitled to his preferences as the rest of us are?

 

[BobR51]

I would say that the percentage of gun owners that regularly practice with the firearms they own is relatively small. I would also conjecture that the small percentage of shooters most likely overlap with the small percentage of Mega Gun owner, the 3% of the population that owns 50% of the firearms in the US. For example my gun club has about 250 members, but the number that I see with any regularity at the range is less then a dozen... and that is a group of people that have a membership to a club, how many gun owner don’t even bother with that?

My gun club has over 1000 members. And I rarely see anybody on a week day. Most I've seen is 6 people there, I never go on the weekend.Even less now that ammo is scarce. I very much enjoy shooting my new Ruger 10/22. Cheap and fun.

 

[gerrycaruso]

The club I shoot at most has nearly 3000 members yet I see the same handful of shooters every Saturday and Sunday morning.

 

[Bodhisattva]

"definitely don’t endanger us as we typically run with a hot range."

What does this mean?

We run a hot range, pistols are hot rifles are usually mag in chamber empty til shooting if we are running stages or drills. By not endangering us we mean pay attention to your muzzle and any stupid/unsafe behavior you’re no longer allowed to shoot with the group. Usually in not so polite of terms. Kinda figured that was self explanatory.

We’ve only had to ever say something one person, and he was a mutual friend of everyone’s. He’s just a meat head and doesn’t get it sometimes.

 

[microwave900]

I was wondering about this too- I met someone at the range and was wondering the odds of running into him again.

See, there are lots of towns without a range, including mine. But we have many hundreds of LTCs. I drive to another town with one range. The field of membership is barely big enough for every LTC in THAT town to be a member, and of course they aren't because I know there are members from many towns, most of which don't have clubs or ranges of their own.

So I'm thinking that some small percentage (10%? Maybe 5?) of LTC holders actually maintain a membership at a gun club or range. What about the rest? Some are law enforcement and have access to other training. Some probably rent a lane at MFS once a year. Some have friends with land, though that must be pretty far from Boston so I don't think they shoot much. The rest, leave the one pistol in the closet and never shoot the thing.

Anyone else thought about this and have estimates for the numbers?

 

[mac1911]

Theres the users and the Igotits out there with everything.
I know "bikers" that never ride
hot rodders that never hot rod
But they gotsit...
i can almost be sure a handful of "gun owners" I know still have the first box of ammo they bought with 2/3s left in it.

 

[Matt_SERE]

I can't recall if it was a link, a quote or an analogy. Many moons ago an NES'er posted a story on "equipment managers", "the scout". "managers" and "hitters" or such. It was well thought out i wish i could find it.

The rhetorical question came down to which were you? Many expresses their opinions that they thought they were the "hitters" but had come to realized they no longer were. Well, more "batting practice" with the right batting coach will help you decide that.

All i wish is for, the 2A community, to know their personal physical, mental and equipment limits. Be safe out there my friends. Matthew.