-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
Great-grandma dared cop to Tase her, so he did
- Thread starter R1ch
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2008
- Messages
- 3,435
- Likes
- 401
Unfortunately there can not be a brite line rule. If you had asked me a week ago if I think a taser should ever be used on a elderly female I would laugh and say that the cop would have to be a pussy to do so.
After seeing this and thinking it through I think it was a appropriate call when you look at the alternatives.
This is why it is difficult to make black and white policies and procedures sometimes. You cannot possibly predict every set of circumstances that comes up.
I am open to alternatives in the case of the OP if anyone has one.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2008
- Messages
- 3,435
- Likes
- 401
Have you read anything that I have written?
Mass-diver
NES Member
As I started to mention to in a earlier post, I think OC is probably safer than tasering. That's not to say that people can't die after being maced, but I would guess that the incidents of fatalities is much lower with OC.
I concede that a taser is probably more effective, but I would think that it might be best used to stop someone who is violently resisting. For someone who is just being an a**h*** (like this woman) but not actually threatening the officer or the public with violence, I would think that some OC in the face might be a good option.
How about that lady that almost ran the Statie over at Logan a few months ago? Now she deserved the taser in the worst way!
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2008
- Messages
- 3,435
- Likes
- 401
I would disagree in this incident. The "hands on" would still need to be done to handcuff and the OC would still allow her to resist that enough to get hurt.
The recovery time would be problematic for her at her age as well.
I am not saying it is perfect but I think it may have been the better option in this case.
It just has a bad stygma to it... a necessary evil.
Last edited:
Ahhh yes. Don't listen to the police, get tazed. I get it now.
I see. Now we taze speeders because of things they MIGHT have done if they were allowed to continue.
Maybe they should just taze at all traffic stops and leave the ticket pinned to their just. It's not fair to them to waste their time.
Yeah. Lucky old lady. She deserved a beating.
What planet are you from?
No, we should let all traffic stops disobey direct orders from a police officer.
And just because she is old we should make special standards for her and her special needs. You have taken everything I have said out of context. It was being used as an example. If a grown male had pulled the sh!t that old lady did, he would be tazed, if not tackled and/or subdued by any means necessary. He tazed the woman to subdue her by the most effective means he had. He did have much more violent methods in his arsenal, and chose the least violent.
What planet are you from that disobeying a police officer rewards you with praise and not punishment?
And yes, stopping speeders is to prevent them from doing bad things that might happen.
Last edited:
A Texas police offer should not be put in the situation have having to arrest someone over not signing a summons. The law is wrong but the officer also has the option to just let the matter go. The ticket was served, what difference does it make that she signed it?
Faced it people. She broke the law. If she shut the F up and did what the PO wanted, none of this ever would have happened. She was relatively unharmed from the tazing, so what is your problem with it anyway? I've tazed myself, as I used to carry one. It's a hell of a lot better for a lady her age than being man handled.
So, how exactly do you suggest the PO should have handled this? Pepper sprayed her and risk her injuring herself due to being blinded and also risk a possibly fatal asthma attack from inhaling it?
Or should he have thrown her to the ground as he would have a healthy middle-age person?
Or should he simply turn his back and allow her to break laws and disobey him while being taped by his video camera and risk being reprimanded for not doing his job?
Some of you have twisted views. A criminal is a criminal. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time!
So, how exactly do you suggest the PO should have handled this? Pepper sprayed her and risk her injuring herself due to being blinded and also risk a possibly fatal asthma attack from inhaling it?
Or should he have thrown her to the ground as he would have a healthy middle-age person?
Or should he simply turn his back and allow her to break laws and disobey him while being taped by his video camera and risk being reprimanded for not doing his job?
Some of you have twisted views. A criminal is a criminal. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time!
By not signing the summons you are stating you have no intent on showing up in court, and at that point are put under arrest to ensure you are tried for your crime as you refused to acknowledge it in writing.
Regardless of the law being correct, it is a law. Walk into Mass with an unloaded firearm without an FID card. You will be arrested and your gun confiscated, though I feel the law should not exist as I am from NH and don't need an FID in my state. Certain laws exist that make no sense at all, but we all must abide by them or risk prosecution. No exceptions due to age, race, sex or even if you just don't agree.
Why is it this doesn't happen every day? Because people don't get punished for abiding by the law.
On a different note, how many of you objecting to the use of the taser have actually been hit with one? I have. I chose to have it tested on myself, as I used to carry one and wanted to understand what it did to a person. I have also been hit with a stun-gun, by my own choosing. The only time you are in discomfort is when you are being hit with electricity. As soon as it stops, the pain goes away. It is far better than most physical injuries, and I would prefer it to a punch 10-1. The lasting effects of being physically injured are far worse than being tasered. So unless you understand what it actually feels like to be tasered, don't judge it's effects, as you truly have no clue.
I'm sure she would take that again over a broken bone or a severe sprain.
Pepper spray is far more dangerous and painful than a Taser. Again, unless you have experienced both, you truly have no room to judge that. Pepper spray is 50 times more painful, and lasts well after the threat has been neutralized. I will take 2 tasers at once over pepper spray ever again. It lasts way longer than necessary and can cause allergic reactions, asthma attacks, and many other problems, as well as a cross contamination hazard for the PO.
I'm sure she would take that again over a broken bone or a severe sprain.
Pepper spray is far more dangerous and painful than a Taser. Again, unless you have experienced both, you truly have no room to judge that. Pepper spray is 50 times more painful, and lasts well after the threat has been neutralized. I will take 2 tasers at once over pepper spray ever again. It lasts way longer than necessary and can cause allergic reactions, asthma attacks, and many other problems, as well as a cross contamination hazard for the PO.
Last edited:
Almost every single news article written about her says how she was shot in the eye with a "pepper spray filled ball," "pepper powder ball," "liquid pepper projectile."
Neither one of the DA's reports says that, however, because she wasn't shot with a "pepper" ball. The projectile that she was shot with didn't contain any pepper (neither OC nor PAVA). While the FN 303 can shoot "pepper projectiles," it can also shoot a wide variety of different loads including malodorants, marking dye, CS, etc.
Apparently someone thought more newspapers would sell if they used some scary term (sound familiar to us gun owners?) to describe the weapon used. This is certainly not the only case where the description of police use of force was improperly "reported" by news outlets. In fact, if you read the descriptions of how the officers fired the FN 303's at people in that incident, you'll see that it was in line with the "impact" type ammo, and not the "pepper" type.
Yup, you listed several news stories, and one of them mentioned that the Taser was "contributory towards his death." Pepper spray (OC) is sometimes "contributory towards the death" of people who've been sprayed with pepper spray and die from positional asphyxiation, but that doesn't mean that it caused their death, or that they were "killed by pepper spray." What many people don't know is that there has never been a documented death caused by pepper spray. Since PD's started using it in the US, there has been 50 something in-custody deaths of people who were pepper sprayed (I don't remember the exact number of deaths, I'm not due for an OC re-cert until next year). In every case, the deaths were caused by fatal amounts of cocaine in the system, or positional asphyxia. Naturally, this doesn't stop reporters from saying that people died from OC exposure, because a coke head's heart giving out doesn't have that tragic element that's key to selling newspapers.
All these "Taser death" stories use sensationalized reporting to give the reader an impression that something took place when in fact it didn't, much like the "OC death" news stories. I have never seen a case where someone was actually "killed by a taser," but I've seen plenty of newspapers hint at it with vague phrases.
If there's proof other than a news article, I would like to see it. But if not, the judges will keep siding with the people who have all the facts.
As others have said, this stuff is like the Brady Campaign's arguments against guns.
Every use of force has risks. Every single one. The rate of injuries to perps and officers is significantly reduced by using Tasers.
In that state, the law says that you either sign the ticket or you get arrested. She refused to sign the ticket, she refused to obey the officer, and she passively resisted arrest.
If you resist arrest, whether actively or passively, the officer WILL use the necessary force to arrest you. That is his job. It won't be pretty. Not ever.
You don't get a free pass from being arrested for being young, or old, or pretty, or an NES member. She lost control of her temper and then made many bad choices.
Last edited:
The statistics don't lie. Injuries to police officers and perps are lower when they use Tasers than when they do a pig pile.
And then he'd need to decontaminate her and risk cross contaminating himself. And if, with her eyes closed, she had run into traffic after being sprayed...
OC has issues, too.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Would she be falling 100% of the time from being hit by a taser?
Taser can cause severe harm, and even death to elderly and children. What if he would kill her?
There are a lot more young drivers who drive under intoxication or go 70 MPH in 35 zones out of stupidity.
*sigh*
Sometimes I don't understand people. Speeding is the most inane of civil infractions. Mouthing off is not a crime in any way.
Neither of these things should ever end up in a police officer using violence on a person, and certainly not violence that could end up with a person dead.
Maybe we should just bring back nightsticking as a general course of action.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
How did we lose our perspective so badly as a society?
BTW, the granny was definitely in the wrong. Right or wrong, a violent assault on her person was not warranted.
Sometimes I don't understand people. Speeding is the most inane of civil infractions. Mouthing off is not a crime in any way.
Neither of these things should ever end up in a police officer using violence on a person, and certainly not violence that could end up with a person dead.
Maybe we should just bring back nightsticking as a general course of action.
How did we lose our perspective so badly as a society?
BTW, the granny was definitely in the wrong. Right or wrong, a violent assault on her person was not warranted.
Before I say anything I just want to go on the record as saying that I don't care what her age is. 72 or 27, you will be held accountable no matter what. That being said:
Who said anything about a free pass? She still has to show up to the court hearing. What we're saying is why exactly does she need to sign a paper that says she will? Why is not signing a paper an arrestable offense?
Yeah... because the video was no help at all.![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Care to tell me how other states in the union are getting by without the signature?
In my personal fantasy land of ideal human behavior, I could make an argument about LE sticking up for what's right and not obeying a bad law but for now I'll just say that on this point we can agree. I don't think most here are blaming the officer as a person. I think they are blaming him as the enforcer of a bad law. When the law is changed, the officer will too. (One can hope)
Well then... that's twice what you asked for. Good of you to concede defeat.![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Do what other states do. Hand her the ticket and if she argues that she wasn't there, hand the video over to the judge. All the comparisons to bank robberies and stealing guns have no place here. Apples and oranges.
65 in a 50 and refusing to sign a piece of paper = criminal? And not just criminal but taze-and-arrest criminal? I don't even need to argue that one. It argues itself.
Says who?
Who said anything about a free pass? She still has to show up to the court hearing. What we're saying is why exactly does she need to sign a paper that says she will? Why is not signing a paper an arrestable offense?
Yeah... because the video was no help at all.
Care to tell me how other states in the union are getting by without the signature?In my personal fantasy land of ideal human behavior, I could make an argument about LE sticking up for what's right and not obeying a bad law but for now I'll just say that on this point we can agree. I don't think most here are blaming the officer as a person. I think they are blaming him as the enforcer of a bad law. When the law is changed, the officer will too. (One can hope)
Well then... that's twice what you asked for. Good of you to concede defeat.
Do what other states do. Hand her the ticket and if she argues that she wasn't there, hand the video over to the judge. All the comparisons to bank robberies and stealing guns have no place here. Apples and oranges.
65 in a 50 and refusing to sign a piece of paper = criminal? And not just criminal but taze-and-arrest criminal? I don't even need to argue that one. It argues itself.
Says who?
Last edited:
While I agree a taser might not have been the best idea, it may be dept policy, she was warned.
It really doesn't get any more cut and dry than that.
- Status
Similar threads
