Great-grandma dared cop to Tase her, so he did

[Herrminator]

Can you name one? Not people who've vaguely "died after being tased," but people who have been killed by a Taser.

Tackling someone can most certainly kill them, especially if they're a brittle boned old lady.

So tackling kills people vs. 50,000 volts?...Oh, so thats why so many NFL players die everyday.

So I guess in your rule book of tasing it doesn't count if they later die in the hospital..your a f***ing joke

I hope you like this one : http://taseredwhileblack.blogspot.com/

 

[Half Cocked]

Theft is harm. You're dodging the issue. Not signing a ticket still doesn't harm anyone

I am not dodging anything. She was not tased for her refusal to sign. She was tased for resisting arrest. There are many illegal and arrestable offenses that do not "harm" anyone. Should those people not be arrested?

 

[mark056]

God I hate NES sometimes. Yeah, f*cking 72 year old lady gets what she deserves! She mouthed off! she didn't sign a ticket! She played stupid games and she got a stupid prize! No sympathy! Nope! She's a CRIMINAL! She will behave better next time! Maybe NEXT time she'll get a f*cking bullet! F*cking criminal whore!

Actually she was a criminal. What was a fairly innocuous traffic stop for speeding turned into resisting arrest.

I think you must have some real issues with authority and police procedure...and pray tell sir..how should have the officer dealt with her? Her choice was not to comply. She could have signed the ticket, gone to court and fought it, or put herself at the mercy of the court...maybe the judge would have let her off because nobody wants to fine granny..now we will never know.

You blame the cop. It was her actions that got her into the spot that she is in now. We are a nation of laws and there are mechanisms in place to: 1. either change the law or 2. contest the law when it applies to us. She chose neither, instead she decided to resist arrest and be non-compliant.

Precisely what was the officer going to do? You think dislocating her shoulder is the answer?

Mark056

 

[Herrminator]

Then you should be able to come up with one. Just one.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/03/24/taser-death-teen-michigan.html

HAPPY?!?!?!

Your all so quick to jump on the taser idea, then when maybe its your loved one who dies you'll see the other side.

 

[GSG]

So tackling kills people vs. 50,000 volts?...Oh, so thats why so many NFL players die everyday.

So I guess in your rule book of tasing it doesn't count if they later die in the hospital..your a f***ing joke

There's been a lot of studies recently on the brain trauma caused to NFL players from the constant head injuries they get when being tackled.

And no, if they die from a fatal amount of drugs in their system, other medical conditions, then no, that doesn't count as a Taser death.

 

[Herrminator]

Precisely what was the officer going to do? You think dislocating her shoulder is the answer?

Mark056

Dislocated shoulder vs. risk of cardiac arrest..hmmm thats a hard one.

 

[GSG]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/03/24/taser-death-teen-michigan.html

HAPPY?!?!?!

Your all so quick to jump on the taser idea, then when maybe its your loved one who dies you'll see the other side.

Incorrect. That news story quotes the same Amnesty International figure you gave. Is there evidence other than what a reporter said that he was killed BY the Taser?

 

[Martlet]

Then you should be able to come up with one. Just one.

Now you're just being obnoxious. You're perfectly capable of using google.

http://media.www.dailytoreador.com/media/storage/paper870/news/2006/04/26/News/Autopsy.Results.Show.Man.Killed.By.Taser-1877745.shtml

http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/11/15/one-man-killed-by-taser-another-tasered-while-comatose/

http://tiodt.blogspot.com/2006/10/kid-killed-by-taser-for-shouting-i.html

http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/

http://stopstripmining.gnn.tv/blogs/31522/Another_teenager_killed_by_taser_wielding_police


http://www.policeone.com/less-lethal/articles/122420-Texas-prisoner-killed-by-Taser-deemed-mentally-unstable/

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/us-teenager-killed-police-taser-attack-20090323

 

[mark056]

So tackling kills people vs. 50,000 volts?...Oh, so thats why so many NFL players die everyday.

So I guess in your rule book of tasing it doesn't count if they later die in the hospital..your a f***ing joke

I hope you like this one : http://taseredwhileblack.blogspot.com/

So what non-lethal protocol should have the officer employed? You know damn well that if a 250lb officer tackles a 130lb elderly woman and it's captured on a cruisercam, how is that going to look? Potentially the risk of injury is much greater if the officer is forced to use physical force. Physical injury can work both ways too, by getting into a physical altercation with an elderly woman, the officer was putting himself in jeopardy as well, although some of the arm-chair commandos out there (I am not saying you are one my friend Herminator) will roll their eyes, but a determined and adrenalin pumped human being can wreak considerable havoc despite age or even overall physical condition and though highly probable that the officer would prevail, the question is at what price? Frankly, a lot of you have never actually been in a real physical altercation either on the playground as a child, or much less as an adult, and unless you have the argument is purely theoretical. What appears to be obvious disparity of force, isn't necessarily so, and I speak from experience on this one.

The taser is not an ideal weapon but given his choices: baton, OC, or tazer the best option really was the latter. Perhaps it is the best choice of less than optimal choices, but until we get phasers that can be set to stun, it's one of the best non-lethal weapons in the police arsenal. Yes, it has caused fatalities, but overall, has proven to be a viable non-lethal weapon. Any weapon can cause a fatality.

In a sense, the officer was caught between a rock and hard place. There is no good answer here. Again, though let's put the onus of responsiblity on the perp and not the enforcer. A series of choices were pro-offered and the perp (that's what she is, not granny) made the worst choices avaialble to her.

Mark056

 

[Herrminator]

Incorrect. That news story quotes the same Amnesty International figure you gave. Is there evidence other than what a reporter said that he was killed BY the Taser?

Your right, he was black. Must have died from crack overdose and too much KFC.

Or because cops have shitty relations with black communities where kids grow up not trusting the police, run away and get tazed to death because every black kid who runs away sells crack

 

[Half Cocked]

Dislocated shoulder vs. risk of cardiac arrest..hmmm thats a hard one.

At her age a bowel movement runs the risk of cardiac arrest.

I am not a fan of Tasers either my man but you are drinking some radical anti kool-aid.

You ever check out the Brady Campaign web site? Yeah they have cool numbers also. Let's complain about the cops having guns next.

 

[GSG]

Now you're just being obnoxious. You're perfectly capable of using google.

http://media.www.dailytoreador.com/media/storage/paper870/news/2006/04/26/News/Autopsy.Results.Show.Man.Killed.By.Taser-1877745.shtml

http://animamrecro.wordpress.com/2007/11/15/one-man-killed-by-taser-another-tasered-while-comatose/

http://tiodt.blogspot.com/2006/10/kid-killed-by-taser-for-shouting-i.html

http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/23/17-year-old-killed-by-taser-over-shoplifted-hot-pockets/

http://stopstripmining.gnn.tv/blogs/31522/Another_teenager_killed_by_taser_wielding_police


http://www.policeone.com/less-lethal/articles/122420-Texas-prisoner-killed-by-Taser-deemed-mentally-unstable/

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/us-teenager-killed-police-taser-attack-20090323

The results of the autopsy of Juan Manuel Nunez III were released Tuesday stating his death was caused by "acute alcohol intoxication and concussive brain injury complicated by post traumatic apnea."

The exact cause of death will be determined after an autopsy by the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office.

Those are the only two that mention expert medical opinion. The rest is news hype.

 

[Herrminator]

So what non-lethal protocol should have the officer employed? You kknow damn well that if a 250lb officer tackles a 130lb elderly woman and it's captured on a cruisercam, how is that going to look? Potentially the risk of injury is much greater if the officer is forced to use physical force.

The taser is not an ideal weapon but given his choices: baton, OC, or tazer the best option really was the latter. Perhaps it is the best choice of less than optimal choices, but until we get phasers that can be set to stun, it's one of the best non-lethal weapons in the polcie arsenal.

In a sense, the officer was caught between a rock and hard place. There is no good answer here. Again, though let's put the onus of responsiblity on the perp and not the enforcer. A series of choices were pro-offered and the perp (that's what she is, not granny) made the worst choices.

Mark056

Whatever, I still would have picked her up and put her in the car..yeah I might have had a few life threatening scratches, but I think I'll survive to live another day enforcing speed limits.

 

[GSG]

Your right, he was black. Must have died from crack overdose and too much KFC.

Or because cops have shitty relations with black communities where kids grow up not trusting the police, run away and get tazed to death because every black kid who runs away sells crack

When did I ever say that?!?

I'm asking you a question that you can't answer.

 

[Herrminator]

At her age a bowel movement runs the risk of cardiac arrest.

I am not a fan of Tasers either my man but you are drinking some radical anti kool-aid.

You ever check out the Brady Campaign web site? Yeah they have cool numbers also. Let's complain about the cops having guns next.

Umm I'm all for tasers on huge guys that could mess up an officer...but under 18 and over 65 is wrong. You signed up to be a bad ass cop so use that superior cop physique of yours and do what you always wanted to do.

 

[Martlet]

Those are the only two that mention expert medical opinion. The rest is news hype.

Yes. They were tased, then mysteriously died. I like your selective quoting, too.

Expert medical opinion also determines the cause of death in some beatings as "blunt force trauma". Of course, there would have been no death or trauma if there had been no beating.

I like your selective quoting, too.

The Lubbock Medical Examiner's Office did rule the Taser shock as "contributory towards his death," Byers said.

His manner of death was classified as a homicide.

 

[Half Cocked]

Whatever, I still would have picked her up and put her in the car..

Sooo... you would rather just beat her and break her hip which would lead to an infection and then pneumonia and then she would die?

Just wondering...

 

[Herrminator]

When did I ever say that?!?

I'm asking you a question that you can't answer.

I can read your mind!

 

[Martlet]

Sooo... you would rather just beat her and break her hip which would lead to an infection and then pneumonia and then she would die?

Just wondering...

In all fairness, there's another cop on here with 32 years of experience who says if a cop was worth anything, you wouldn't need a taser or a beating.

 

[Herrminator]

Sooo... you would rather just beat her and break her hip which would lead to an infection and then pneumonia and then she would die?

Just wondering...

Okay so when you get tasered you just happen to fall on a nice Tempurpedic bed to cushion your fall?

 

[GSG]

Yes. They were tased, then mysteriously died. I like your selective quoting, too.

Expert medical opinion also determines the cause of death in some beatings as "blunt force trauma". Of course, there would have been no death or trauma if there had been no beating.

I like your selective quoting, too.

If the news says that they were carrying a fully automatic Glock revolver, were they?

I can read your mind!

My godson is black, nice try.

 

[Half Cocked]

...but under 18 and over 65 is wrong.

Please give me a legitimate reason why?

You signed up to be a bad ass cop so use that superior cop physique of yours and do what you always wanted to do.

Have you missed the posts where I have said that my agency does not carry them and I do not like them or want them?

I do prefer to use my "physique" and deal with things the old fashion way.

But because I have issues with them does not mean they do not serve a purpose.

 

[Herrminator]

Please give me a legitimate reason why?




Have you missed the posts where I have said that my agency does not carry them and I do not like them or want them?

I do prefer to use my "physique" and deal with things the old fashion way.

But because I have issues with them does not mean they do not serve a purpose.

I don't care if you use them, your the one who has to live with the fact that you killed someone for resisting a speeding ticket arrest for the rest of your life...have fun with that on your conscience..Tase away!

 

[Jason]

I am not dodging anything. She was not tased for her refusal to sign. She was tased for resisting arrest. There are many illegal and arrestable offenses that do not "harm" anyone. Should those people not be arrested?

The coercive threat of violence was used to make her sign. That is the point where violence was first initiated.

For all those current illegal and arrestable offenses that don't harm another person... no, I don't think they should be arrested for those.

 

[Martlet]

If the news says that they were carrying a fully automatic Glock revolver, were they?

That's right. When you're proven wrong, discredit the source. If you could argue your position on the merits, you wouldn't have to.

You asked for an example, I provided many. I can provide many more. They are what they are. Just like the news story we're discussing provided facts that we accept at face value. If you have information that would provide the examples I gave you to be inaccurate, please, feel free to share it.

 

[GSG]

Compare and decide for yourself.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...e_police_projectile_kills_an_emerson_student/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Snelgrove

Does the news report objectively?

Victoria Snelgrove wasn't killed by a pepperball gun, even though that's what was reported.

 

[Half Cocked]

In all fairness, there's another cop on here with 32 years of experience who says if a cop was worth anything, you wouldn't need a taser or a beating.

And does that make him right?

Does it make me right?

Who knows?

I have repeatedly stated that I have no use for them..but in this situation I see the merit in it's use compared to the potential serious injury that can and would ressult from physical restraint.

 

[Martlet]

But because I have issues with them does not mean they do not serve a purpose.

They absolutely do. Now we're just having a discussion about when that purpose comes into play, and what line should be drawn.

 

[Martlet]

And does that make him right?

Does it make me right?

Who knows?

I have repeatedly stated that I have no use for them..but in this situation I see the merit in it's use compared to the potential serious injury that can and would ressult from physical restraint.

I already stated I don't know. It provides evidence that the jury is certainly out, though. I'd like to think people would at least be skeptical of their use, rather than jump to say it was justified in cases where it may not have been.

I wasn't there. Even if I were, I may not know. I'm open to the possibilities on either side. Either way, I'm not siding with the woman.

 

[Herrminator]

Bishop Desmond Tutu...

We must not allow ourselves to become like the system we oppose. We cannot afford to use methods of which we will be ashamed when we look back, when we say, '...we shouldn't have done that.' We must remember, my friends, that we have been given a wonderful cause. The cause of freedom! And you and I must be those who will walk with heads held high. We will say, 'We used methods that can stand the harsh scrutiny of history.'