Going 1911

Update:

Ran a ton of 9mm ball through it , and it worked perfectly.

Then ran a mag full of federal hst 124gr +P through it without a hiccup.

The gun has no recoil. I now see why everyone loves the 9mm 1911. I am officially hooked on 1911's.

I am tempted to let go of my not so perfect fitting glock 21sf which is too big for my hands and put those funds torward a .45 acp 1911.
 
Queen Bee said:
Update:

Ran a ton of 9mm ball through it , and it worked perfectly.

Then ran a mag full of federal hst 124gr +P through it without a hiccup.

The gun has no recoil. I now see why everyone loves the 9mm 1911. I am officially hooked on 1911's.

I am tempted to let go of my not so perfect fitting glock 21sf which is too big for my hands and put those funds torward a .45 acp 1911.
Click to expand...

Good choice to dump the plastic.
 
How about a trp or lightweight operator? If your going Springfield

great firearm
 

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ISOTOX said:
Not really a real 1911 unless it's in 45. Just saying. But your pick of the Rock Island is a solid pick in 9mm/22
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Times are changing and the 9mm is coming on strong. USPSA Production Division and IDPA SSP and ESP have sparked this resurgence. 9mm race revolvers from S&W are also feeding the frenzy and Steel Challenge matches are home to 9mm centerfire pistols. There are a lot of sports where 9mm can out perform the 45 for less $. USPSA Single Stack Division is the home of the ten shot 9mm 1911 where it is challenging the 45 for supremacy. This was unheard of twenty years ago.

I have been bitten by the bug myself. I am working on two 1911s in 9mm myself; a single stack race gun for steel and a basically stock pistol for USPSA Single Stack.
 
Gammon said:
Times are changing and the 9mm is coming on strong. USPSA Production Division and IDPA SSP and ESP have sparked this resurgence. 9mm race revolvers from S&W are also feeding the frenzy and Steel Challenge matches are home to 9mm centerfire pistols. There are a lot of sports where 9mm can out perform the 45 for less $. USPSA Single Stack Division is the home of the ten shot 9mm 1911 where it is challenging the 45 for supremacy. This was unheard of twenty years ago.

I have been bitten by the bug myself. I am working on two 1911s in 9mm myself; a single stack race gun for steel and a basically stock pistol for USPSA Single Stack.
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Yep. I think many of the people who say a 1911 must be a 45, have never shot a 9mm 1911. My DW PM9 is my favorite gun to shoot and what I use for competition.
 
Gammon said:
Times are changing and the 9mm is coming on strong. USPSA Production Division and IDPA SSP and ESP have sparked this resurgence. 9mm race revolvers from S&W are also feeding the frenzy and Steel Challenge matches are home to 9mm centerfire pistols. There are a lot of sports where 9mm can out perform the 45 for less $. USPSA Single Stack Division is the home of the ten shot 9mm 1911 where it is challenging the 45 for supremacy. This was unheard of twenty years ago.

I have been bitten by the bug myself. I am working on two 1911s in 9mm myself; a single stack race gun for steel and a basically stock pistol for USPSA Single Stack.
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This is because of simple economics. Decent (read as, not unjacketed lead garbage type stuff) .45 ACP ammo generally has a retarded price, even if you reload it. Back 10 or so years ago the price gap between the two certainly existed but my recollection was that it was a lot narrower. A case of either was also well under $200. There's no way anyone is getting a case of decent commercial .45 for 200 bucks at this point. Not happening.

-Mike
 
Gammon said:
There are a lot of sports where 9mm can out perform the 45 for less $.
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This I agree with

Gammon said:
USPSA Single Stack Division is the home of the ten shot 9mm 1911 where it is challenging the 45 for supremacy.
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No it is not.

9mm SS may be advantages for a mid level shooter at local level 1 matches... but SS nationals has always and will always be dominated by Major power factor, be it from 45 or 40.
Equipment servey 2016 SS nationals
only 20% of shooters used minor (9mm)
Results 2016 SS nationalsl
The highest placed minor shooter was 20th, and only 81% of the match winner.


The same applies to any level 2 or 3 match were there are actually a few GM SS shooters. Due to the nature of USPSA course design, there is no true advantage to having 10 rounds in the gun over 8. Top level shooters will not shoot minor any faster or more accurately than major, and even though they may shoot 90-95% of available points, those few Bravo, Charlie and Delta hits would be too costly if scored minor.
 
SJan said:
This I agree with



No it is not.

9mm SS may be advantages for a mid level shooter at local level 1 matches... but SS nationals has always and will always be dominated by Major power factor, be it from 45 or 40.
Equipment servey 2016 SS nationals
only 20% of shooters used minor (9mm)
Results 2016 SS nationalsl
The highest placed minor shooter was 20th, and only 81% of the match winner.


The same applies to any level 2 or 3 match were there are actually a few GM SS shooters. Due to the nature of USPSA course design, there is no true advantage to having 10 rounds in the gun over 8. Top level shooters will not shoot minor any faster or more accurately than major, and even though they may shoot 90-95% of available points, those few Bravo, Charlie and Delta hits would be too costly if scored minor.
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You got me. I was basing my comments on results from local matches and forgot what the top shooters could do with a major PF gun.

I do, however, disagree with your comments on minor PF loads. The top guns would be able to take advantage of softer recoil which would result in better hits and lower times. These improvements are
just not enough to overcome the minor scoring penalty.

Also, extra ammo in the mag is always an advantage. One extra round could be just enough to save a reload which is a two second loss. If extra rounds were not an advantage there would be no need for for mag capacity limits.
 
Gammon said:
You got me. I was basing my comments on results from local matches and forgot what the top shooters could do with a major PF gun.

I do, however, disagree with your comments on minor PF loads. The top guns would be able to take advantage of softer recoil which would result in better hits and lower times. These improvements are
just not enough to overcome the minor scoring penalty.

Also, extra ammo in the mag is always an advantage. One extra round could be just enough to save a reload which is a two second loss. If extra rounds were not an advantage there would be no need for for mag capacity limits.
Click to expand...

The numbers don't really bear it out though. Minor just isn't as much of an advantage over major when it comes to tuned match guns -- they're all soft to shoot.
 
Gammon said:
Also, extra ammo in the mag is always an advantage. One extra round could be just enough to save a reload which is a two second loss. If extra rounds were not an advantage there would be no need for for mag capacity limits.
Click to expand...

The problem is that so many stages are set up in 8 round arrays. Unless you make mistakes, the extra rounds are not any benefit.
 
Also, extra ammo in the mag is always an advantage.
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Back when people were debating the merits of a 10 round limit in USPSA competition, the standard argument was "Higher capacity is not an advantage with proper course design but don't you dare limit me to 10 rounds and take away the high capacity advantage I paid big money for".
 
Gammon said:
The mistake is exactly what I am talking about. Saving a reload is a big deal.
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Supermoto said:
It is especially standing reloads, but when you stop making silly mistakes that cause standing reloads, then extra rounds do not outweigh minor scoring.
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That's why my statement included the Mid level shooter clause. High level shooters will still get some quantity of C and B hits, but will very rarely screw up bad enough to be forced into a time wasting standing reload.
 
I think shooting major outweighs the extra 2 rounds. They set the courses up so the extra 2 rounds really aren't a benefit unless your missing.
 
MMArtist said:
I think shooting major outweighs the extra 2 rounds. They set the courses up so the extra 2 rounds really aren't a benefit unless your missing.
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They are also a benefit as "insurance rounds".

Suppose your final shooting position required 3 rounds at mini poppers, and you have shot 5 rounds at the last position. With an 8+1 gun you can run straight to the position knowing you have exactly 3 rounds left. With a 10+1 you can run the position knowing you have 3+2 spares left. Now, assume the final shots are tricky ones you are not 100% sure you will get the first time. Do you reload on the run if you are shooting an 8+1 gun? If not, do you take the final 3 rounds a little more slowly because you do not have spare rounds in your gun? If you are shooting minor, and take those final 3 just a bit faster because you have spare rounds to rely on, you have benefited even without using the extra rounds.
 
The only division where minor added capacity offsets the detriment of major scoring is revolver. That is only because of "must not require more than 8 scoring hits
from any single location or view" for short/medium/long courses rule and typical stage design.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
They are also a benefit as "insurance rounds".

Suppose your final shooting position required 3 rounds at mini poppers, and you have shot 5 rounds at the last position. With an 8+1 gun you can run straight to the position knowing you have exactly 3 rounds left. With a 10+1 you can run the position knowing you have 3+2 spares left. Now, assume the final shots are tricky ones you are not 100% sure you will get the first time. Do you reload on the run if you are shooting an 8+1 gun? If not, do you take the final 3 rounds a little more slowly because you do not have spare rounds in your gun? If you are shooting minor, and take those final 3 just a bit faster because you have spare rounds to rely on, you have benefited even without using the extra rounds.
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Knowing that the awesomeness of 230g of 45 ACP goodness will knock down those poppers with a hit anywhere, I would go into that position full speed and hose away those 3 shots. If I were shooting the inferior 9mm I would absolutely reload into that last position knowing that I would probably need at least 2 hits on each of those poppers to get them to start leaning back enough for gravity to take over.

#popperf@cked
 
That "230 gr goodness" is only "awesome" if it hits the plate. Otherwise you are just comic relief as you struggle to reload and salvage your run.
 
Damn, I should have skipped over this thread. Now I'm thinking I "need" a 9mm 1911. I dumped my Colt Gold Cup 8 or 9 years ago and never looked back. Everyone has to have at least one 1911 in their collection, so now I need one. Unfortunately, this thread did not convince me which one to get.

I need one that's "done", I don't want to have to send it out for work as soon as I get it, and I'm not capable of doing it myself. Must have ambidextrous safety as I'm a lefty. Must be reliable. It will never be anything more than a range toy, but it still has to run as close to flawlessly as you can get for under $1500.

Any ideas???
 
I never have really "got" the concept of a 9mm 1911. There has been a single action 9mm pistol that Browning did the initial design work on. The only pistol manufactured by both sides in WW2, until recently the most issued military sidearm outside the former Warsaw Pact: The FN/Browning Hi Power (P35).

I know, I know on the AG list but still obtainable.
 
mark056 said:
I never have really "got" the concept of a 9mm 1911. There has been a single action 9mm pistol that Browning did the initial design work on. The only pistol manufactured by both sides in WW2, until recently the most issued military sidearm outside the former Warsaw Pact: The FN/Browning Hi Power (P35).

I know, I know on the AG list but still obtainable.
Click to expand...
Softer shooter which we all strive for
Cheaper to shoot in a 200 round range trip
Better selling Mass Markup
I just don't lose sleep over "It should be a .45" concept
 
mark056 said:
I never have really "got" the concept of a 9mm 1911. There has been a single action 9mm pistol that Browning did the initial design work on. The only pistol manufactured by both sides in WW2, until recently the most issued military sidearm outside the former Warsaw Pact: The FN/Browning Hi Power (P35).

I know, I know on the AG list but still obtainable.
Click to expand...

A BHP is an awful shooting experience (marginal trigger, awful safety) compared to a well tuned 9mm 1911, albeit the BHP is, without argument, far more reliable. I give it credit for existing though because the BHP was literally the "handgun that launched double stack 9mm handguns" as a generality.

-Mike
 

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