GOAL Files Emergency Legislation

[jasons]

*********
and where is the money going to come from? You do realize that no Judge is going to side w/us against the State or a COP on a 2A issue?

Then why am I supporting GOAL now? If what you say is true, this bill is just as dead as a better one. Why bother?

 

[chaser001]

I dont see this passing, the state won't give up the revenue.

 

[dixidawg]

Why do we need 3 million people, and why would we need a ballot initiative? In the case of the long licensing delays we only need to get an existing law enforced. It really shouldn't take half of the population of MA and an election cycle to make that happen.

There are no ramifications in the law for not making 40 days, so there is no penalty. There is nothing to enforce.

 

[jasons]

There are no ramifications in the law for not making 40 days, so there is no penalty. There is nothing to enforce.

You skipped the question. "Why do we need 3 million people, and why would we need a ballot initiative?"

 

[MichaelJR]

The faster we realize that the only way anything changes here is through the circuits and scotus, the faster we can stop these discussions. This isn't AZ, this is the moonbat capital of the country. Nothing will get thru state wise here. Everything we file has the ultimate goal of hitting federal courts. If that doesn't tell you anything, I don't know what will.

Not trying to sound like a know-it-all, or a defeatist, but seriously our chances of getting any of those through are quite literally as realistic as repealing NFA.

 

[ntomsw]

The faster we realize that the only way anything changes here is through the circuits and scotus, the faster we can stop these discussions. This isn't AZ, this is the moonbat capital of the country. Nothing will get thru state wise here. Everything we file has the ultimate goal of hitting federal courts. If that doesn't tell you anything, I don't know what will.

Well, if nothing will ever pass, than why is GOAL even in existence???

 

[Terminator03]

What about restrictions period?
What about the whole 40 day bullshit?
What about 1 agency to do licensing, and not each chief having their own bullshit, backwards discretion for each applicant?

I agree. It should be patterned similar to CT with 1 licensing agency, which would streamline the system. As for the other legislation, it looks like a good plan, where the licenses don't actually expire, except for maybe "on paper" for purposes of a fee structure similar to your car registration, where it only gets pulled if you fail to pay the renewal fees. The way the system is now sucks because you can become an instant felon just because of the re-application process. There is no need for re-application anyway, since it would be very easy to determine if you were no longer valid by a simple database query, which could be done when your fee renewal comes up. The other question about restriction removal could be resolved by having a central agency manage that.

 

[dixidawg]

You skipped the question. "Why do we need 3 million people, and why would we need a ballot initiative?"

To change the laws. They will only change if there is enough people to support the change.


EDIT: Or if the courts force them to change.

 

[ntomsw]

IMHO, there should be NO restrictions, period! If you are 'good enough' to get the LTC in the 1st place, why are these Licensing Authorities than restricting them?????

 

[jasons]

The faster we realize that the only way anything changes here is through the circuits and scotus, the faster we can stop these discussions. This isn't AZ, this is the moonbat capital of the country. Nothing will get thru state wise here. Everything we file has the ultimate goal of hitting federal courts. If that doesn't tell you anything, I don't know what will.

If we agree to this premise (and FWIW I do,) then what is GOAL's purpose?

 

[ntomsw]

ok I'm 23 now. Let's say I live to 100. That's 12 renewals I'll have to do. Saves me 1200 bucks. I doubt it willl pass but can't complain if it does.

The state will never give up that revenue. That's $1200 just for you. Multiply that by the other 100,00 licensed people in MA, or however many there are.

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The faster we realize that the only way anything changes here is through the circuits and scotus, the faster we can stop these discussions. This isn't AZ, this is the moonbat capital of the country. Nothing will get thru state wise here. Everything we file has the ultimate goal of hitting federal courts. If that doesn't tell you anything, I don't know what will.

Not trying to sound like a know-it-all, or a defeatist, but seriously our chances of getting any of those through are quite literally as realistic as repealing NFA.

Well, if nothing will ever pass, than why is GOAL even in existence???

If we agree to this premise (and FWIW I do,) then what is GOAL's purpose?

.

 

[neEEGuru]

The faster we realize that the only way anything changes here is through the circuits and scotus, the faster we can stop these discussions. This isn't AZ, this is the moonbat capital of the country. Nothing will get thru state wise here. Everything we file has the ultimate goal of hitting federal courts. If that doesn't tell you anything, I don't know what will.

Not trying to sound like a know-it-all, or a defeatist, but seriously our chances of getting any of those through are quite literally as realistic as repealing NFA.

Yes, this is sadly where we are in MA.

And IRT the major push/big bill from GOAL, it was DOA in my mind also because it added those huge mandatory minimum prison terms for gun violations, it added to the problem... and that is aside from the fact that something that large doesn't seem to have any chance in this minded state. Splitting it up is a good thing, IMO, but chances of success is small.

Even if there is a small chance, there still needs to be the push to try... if nothing else then to keep the other side in check.

 

[MichaelJR]

Well, if nothing will ever pass, than why is GOAL even in existence???

Honestly, I think it's a feel good organization. Aside from that, I can't see a reason. It sucks money away from organizations that are filing proofread bills that actually hold national significance that have a real shot at getting thru. Really, take a look at those proposed bills. I have a unicorn in my back seat. GOAL is nice and all, but they are the Sinn Fein to the Rira.

Now Comm and SAF make sense, because they constantly have their eyes fixed on Scotus for federal decisions. Eye on the prize, not the statehouse and local legislators that pander to beacon hill on a daily basis.

 

[jasons]

To change the laws. They will only change if there is enough people to support the change.

So your position is that if we can't meet this goal of 3 million supporters (which is extremely unlikely,) then we're automatically doomed to fail. If this is the case, what role is GOAL serving and why are we supporting them?

My take on this is that we're supporting them so that they can shine a light on some of the more egregious laws that unjustly restrict our freedom, even though none of us seriously expect much (if any) success in changing those laws. If that's the case, why focus effort and energy on a symptom of the larger problem while leaving the larger problem unaddressed?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If we agree to this premise (and FWIW I do,) then what is GOAL's purpose?

I would rather have the democrats in Boston spending their time fighting GOALs bills than promoting their own. When GOAL introduces a bill, the game for that bill is "We win or break even". When the Democrats introduce a bill, the game is "we break even or lose something".

 

[ntomsw]

Honestly, I think it's a feel good organization. Aside from that, I can't see a reason. It sucks money away from organizations that are filing proofread bills that actually hold national significance that have a real shot at getting thru. Really, take a look at those proposed bills. I have a unicorn in my back seat. GOAL is nice and all, but they are the Sinn Fein to the Rira.

Now Comm and SAF make sense, because they constantly have their eyes fixed on Scotus for federal decisions. Eye on the prize, not the statehouse and local legislators that pander to beacon hill on a daily basis.

I agree 100%

 

[jasons]

I would rather have the democrats in Boston spending their time fighting GOALs bills than promoting their own. When GOAL introduces a bill, the game for that bill is "We win or break even". When the Democrats introduce a bill, the game is "we break even or lose something".

If the goal is to keep the anti-gunners busy, why propose "emergency legislation" that ignores the root cause of the issue? Wouldn't it be more politically advantageous to force the anti-gunners to go on record supporting chiefs who break their own laws, rather than ignoring that issue and tossing them some softball legislation that they can safely ignore?

 

[dixidawg]

So your position is that if we can't meet this goal of 3 million supporters (which is extremely unlikely,) then we're automatically doomed to fail. If this is the case, what role is GOAL serving and why are we supporting them?

ummm, no. I think the biggest role that GOAL has is to be a voice of opposition to any NEW legislation. I think it is much easier to stop new bills and GOAL does a relatively good job of that. In order for us to actually file and pass any meaningful "go big" legislation, we are going to need a LOT more sympathetic voters.

My take on this is that we're supporting them so that they can shine a light on some of the more egregious laws that unjustly restrict our freedom, even though none of us seriously expect much (if any) success in changing those laws. If that's the case, why focus effort and energy on a symptom of the larger problem while leaving the larger problem unaddressed?

Egregious laws that unjustly restrict our freedoms are best addressed by the courts. Although, GOAL may be able to eek out some small legislative gains, and I think that is what they are trying to do here.

 

[Bob Palermo]

Not a defeatist here. A realist. GOAL can only try to do so much. That's why Comm2A is so important. We need the soft glove of GOAL and the iron fist of Comm2A. It ain't easy.

Agreed. People expect a lot from GOAL, yet in this state, with the Dem control, we are lucky things are not much worse.

 

[jar]

I didn't say big bills are "Meh", I said the one in the OP is meh. That's my opinion and I am allowed to it last time I checked.

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These bills go no where, and I want some real changes in this state. Ask me what needs to be done? I don't know. To me, whatever it is, it isn't enough.

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine that your opinions are full of criticism for what others are doing and empty of any better suggestions.

I want some real changes too. I also want a $500M powerball jackpot. Wanting things doesn't make them possible or likely.

 

[jar]

You do realize that no Judge is going to side w/us against the State or a COP on a 2A issue?

Wrong. A Massachusetts gun control law was found unconstitutional by a Federal judge and is now no longer being enforced. http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...in-Federal-Court-Mass-Alienage-Ban-Overturned

 

[jasons]

I think the biggest role that GOAL has is to be a voice of opposition to any NEW legislation.

Then why are they proposing this new legislation? If their mission is as you state, why are they taking their eye off of the ball?

 

[ntomsw]

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine that your opinions are full of criticism for what others are doing and empty of any better suggestions.

I want some real changes too. I also want a $500M powerball jackpot. Wanting things doesn't make them possible or likely.

I said what I wanted. Check back a few posts. If you want to engage in some pissing contest further, you've come to the wrong person.

This bill will go no where, and if they can't accomplish anything, why are they there??? Why are people donating their money to them? Why are people donating their free time to them?

 

[Len-2A Training]

I dont see this passing, the state won't give up the revenue.

Agreed. I recall a private conversation I had with Jim Wallace a few years ago. Apparently the legislature passed a "rule" whereby to reduce a fee/revenue, one MUST show where the missing revenue will come from (someplace else). This, as Jim explained, makes it impossible to ever reduce fees. I'm not sure how that rule will play with this bill, but I expect it to die because of that lack of revenue stream alone.

There are no ramifications in the law for not making 40 days, so there is no penalty. There is nothing to enforce.

MCOPA has paid lobbyists . . . those are the guys that get invited to the "smoke filled rooms" to discuss legislation outside of public view, they also go in one-on-one to espouse that if a legislator has any desire to get re-elected he/she MUST do "this" or MUST NOT do "that". Bottom line is that this is why you will NEVER see any penalties/cost go back in chiefs/LOs/towns for what they do or don't do in compliance with MGLs! This is just "reality", not the way it should be.

So, I applaud GOAL for trying but know that nothing will come of this bill.

 

[jasons]

Agreed. People expect a lot from GOAL, yet in this state, with the Dem control, we are lucky things are not much worse.

I don't expect miracles. I do expect careful and well considered use of our limited resources. I don't think this particular legislation meets that criteria.

 

[yanici]

I said what I wanted. Check back a few posts. If you want to engage in some pissing contest further, you've come to the wrong person.

This bill will go no where, and if they can't accomplish anything, why are they there??? Why are people donating their money to them? Why are people donating their free time to them?

It's your perogative to donate time or money to GOAL. I will continue to do both and I encourage others to do likewise. Remember you can't get anything out if you don't put something in.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Remember you can't get anything out if you don't put something in.

Sure you can, you just have to not work and file for EBT.

 

[KH56010]

Agreed. I recall a private conversation I had with Jim Wallace a few years ago. Apparently the legislature passed a "rule" whereby to reduce a fee/revenue, one MUST show where the missing revenue will come from (someplace else). This, as Jim explained, makes it impossible to ever reduce fees. I'm not sure how that rule will play with this bill, but I expect it to die because of that lack of revenue stream alone.





MCOPA has paid lobbyists . . . those are the guys that get invited to the "smoke filled rooms" to discuss legislation outside of public view, they also go in one-on-one to espouse that if a legislator has any desire to get re-elected he/she MUST do "this" or MUST NOT do "that". Bottom line is that this is why you will NEVER see any penalties/cost go back in chiefs/LOs/towns for what they do or don't do in compliance with MGLs! This is just "reality", not the way it should be.

So, I applaud GOAL for trying but know that nothing will come of this bill.

I figured they would've introduced the bill with a stipulation like "residents must pay $100 renewal fee every 5 years and non payment will be cause for suspension/revocation" and just have us renew online like with a car registration. No lost revenue and less cost in man hours for processing paper applications/holding interviews.

 

[inerlogic]

i don't want my license to be good for life.....
i live in new bedford, first license they give you is restricted, then supposedly they give you an unrestricted license on renewal....

oh, and can we do something to the stupid AWB which currently makes every shotgun with a magazine tube illegal?
(anyone notice the fed ban exempted manually operated shotguns, but the state ban does not?)

 

[Dench]

Give GOAL a little credit here. They're trying. Nobody knows how hard it is more than our GOAL workers. We all know that we'll never see anything perfect and to our liking get through and signed by the Gov. If they can lighten the load on gun owners even a little bit, my hat goes off to them and the legislators that step up to the plate.

Support GOAL and Comm2A.

if the state wont support bills that respect the constitution then we need to be focusing on suing them (Comm2A) and not making retarded middle of the road bills (GOAL)