dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
It is the MA state affiliate of the NRA.
And NRA gets even less traction on Beacon Hill because of those three eeeeevil initials: N. R. A. Mass legislators hear NRA and it basically shuts them right down.
![[frown]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/003.gif "Frown [frown]")
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GOAL Files Emergency Legislation
- Thread starter Revelationechc
- Start date
It is the MA state affiliate of the NRA.
And NRA gets even less traction on Beacon Hill because of those three eeeeevil initials: N. R. A. Mass legislators hear NRA and it basically shuts them right down.
MisterHappy
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GOAL is not the "arm" of the NRA in Mass, in that they are not an appendage or subsidiary. They work together, and share common goals. Kind of like here....most NESers have some basic level of agreement, but there is also a little disagreement.
As for the Lawsuit angle....this is NOT as easy as it sounds; if it were, it would have been done already. You need a plaintiff (nobody wants to be them!) and good legal representation (which costs money); and time (becuase the courts are slow); and luck ...becuase we're in a state that says that the US Constitution may, or may not actually apply.
Should it be attempted? Yes, in carefully-thought-out, well prepped cases. There will be no crusading citizen filing John Q. Shooter v. PRM to get the licensing scheme done away with. Discretion and B-ramming have been repeatedly affirmed; CMRs are created without legislative oversight, and it's a "good" thing in the opinion of most in the commonwealth.
The courts are no more a panacaea than GOAL is.....we're an oppressed minority.
we need to become less of a minority....and there's only one way to do it.
As for the Lawsuit angle....this is NOT as easy as it sounds; if it were, it would have been done already. You need a plaintiff (nobody wants to be them!) and good legal representation (which costs money); and time (becuase the courts are slow); and luck ...becuase we're in a state that says that the US Constitution may, or may not actually apply.
Should it be attempted? Yes, in carefully-thought-out, well prepped cases. There will be no crusading citizen filing John Q. Shooter v. PRM to get the licensing scheme done away with. Discretion and B-ramming have been repeatedly affirmed; CMRs are created without legislative oversight, and it's a "good" thing in the opinion of most in the commonwealth.
The courts are no more a panacaea than GOAL is.....we're an oppressed minority.
we need to become less of a minority....and there's only one way to do it.
Gidge
NES Member
The soap box....the ballot box....the jury box.....
OK, here we go. I couldn't find the post I wanted to reply to, so I'll just wing it. I think GOAL should not necessarily be pushing the legislation, but their main purpose should be to get pro gun rights people elected into office. If they seat the right people in the right places, the right voting will just happen naturally, or with minimal organized help. They keep trying all this fancy legislation on the same old crew who are not voting our way. It just doesn't work that way. I have, in the past, sat at GOAL offices with other people (Chris S. and I think Len S. come to mind), doing the "phone bank" thing to members, asking them to vote for a candidate or against some other candidate. Now there is software or services to do that, but those cost money. I have said it here before, GOAL needs to hire one or more professional fund raisers, so they can afford to do these sort of things. Once they do, and we can start getting better representatives in office, we can start working on what kind of legislation we would like to see. The other side of this is education. They are doing this VERY well, with Women On Target and First Shots, Eddie Eagle, and those FSED things they used to do. One final missing component is they need to involve the police as an ally. They need to reach out and provide training, education, and competitions to keep them involved and close. Right now, PD's seem to mostly flee from GOAL.
It is up to US to provide good candidates for office, and also to take friends, neighbors, and co-workers to the range, or otherwise educate them about firearms. We need to build up a base of candidates at the LOCAL level (school committee, planning, zoning, selectmen, etc.), so they can then graduate to state representative, state senate, and other offices, where their impact will be most useful.
I hope this is clear enough for folks.
It is up to US to provide good candidates for office, and also to take friends, neighbors, and co-workers to the range, or otherwise educate them about firearms. We need to build up a base of candidates at the LOCAL level (school committee, planning, zoning, selectmen, etc.), so they can then graduate to state representative, state senate, and other offices, where their impact will be most useful.
I hope this is clear enough for folks.
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OK, here we go. I couldn't find the post I wanted to reply to, so I'll just wing it. I think GOAL should not necessarily be pushing the legislation, but their main purpose should be to get pro gun rights people elected into office. If they seat the right people in the right places, the right voting will just happen naturally, or with minimal organized help. They keep trying all this fancy legislation on the same old crew who are not voting our way. It just doesn't work that way. I have, in the past, sat at GOAL offices with other people (Chris S. and I think Len S. come to mind), doing the "phone bank" thing to members, asking them to vote for a candidate or against some other candidate. Now there is software or services to do that, but those cost money. I have said it here before, GOAL needs to hire one or more professional fund raisers, so they can afford to do these sort of things. Once they do, and we can start getting better representatives in office, we can start working on what kind of legislation we would like to see. The other side of this is education. They are doing this VERY well, with Women On Target and First Shots, Eddie Eagle, and those FSED things they used to do. One final missing component is they need to involve the police as an ally. They need to reach out and provide training, education, and competitions to keep them involved and close. Right now, PD's seem to mostly flee from GOAL.
It is up to US to provide good candidates for office, and also to take friends, neighbors, and co-workers to the range, or otherwise educate them about firearms. We need to build up a base of candidates at the LOCAL level (school committee, planning, zoning, selectmen, etc.), so they can then graduate to state representative, state senate, and other offices, where their impact will be most useful.
I hope this is clear enough for folks.
It sounds to me like what your saying is that GOAL should fire their staff lobbyist and hire a team of professional fundraisers, basically turning from a lobbying and education org into a sort of PAC. Is this what you're getting at?
I thought already GOAL is a lobbying group, or maybe call it a PAC. Sounds good to me. Maybe a combination of both, and I think they'd be more effective. I think we still need someone to work with legislators, and give them "guidance", but first they need more of them.
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They are a lobbying and education group now. You're proposing that they switch focus away from lobbying and focus more on political action. Am I correct here?
A couple of corrections are in order:
- GOAL's Charter is lobby and deal with legislation, NOT to file lawsuits/litigate. Violate your charter and your corporate status gets yanked by the Secretary of State!
- Coyote33 - No, I've never been on phone detail at GOAL. I live an hour away and probably only averaged visiting the office once in 5 years or so, especially since I left DEC in 1992, as I have no reason to be in that area during workdays.
- You don't want anything to do with professional fundraisers! My Summer job after graduating high school was working for one of these outfits fundraising for the Brockton Police Relief Assn! The fundraisers kept ~75% of the money collected! When my Jaycee chapter ran a circus they brought in their fundraisers and IIRC between paying the fundraisers and circus (same company) I think we got to keep ~20% at most.
I do agree getting the right people elected could be a good goal for GOAL. Otherwise their real job is to keep their finger in that dike and prevent a flood of anti-gun bills from getting by us.
- GOAL's Charter is lobby and deal with legislation, NOT to file lawsuits/litigate. Violate your charter and your corporate status gets yanked by the Secretary of State!
- Coyote33 - No, I've never been on phone detail at GOAL. I live an hour away and probably only averaged visiting the office once in 5 years or so, especially since I left DEC in 1992, as I have no reason to be in that area during workdays.
- You don't want anything to do with professional fundraisers! My Summer job after graduating high school was working for one of these outfits fundraising for the Brockton Police Relief Assn! The fundraisers kept ~75% of the money collected! When my Jaycee chapter ran a circus they brought in their fundraisers and IIRC between paying the fundraisers and circus (same company) I think we got to keep ~20% at most.
I do agree getting the right people elected could be a good goal for GOAL. Otherwise their real job is to keep their finger in that dike and prevent a flood of anti-gun bills from getting by us.
Len, I meant they should HIRE a fundraiser as part of GOAL staff. The phone banks I worked at for GOAL were for "get out the vote" type of stuff, not fundraising, if I remember right. I never mentioned lawsuits or litigation. Jim is doing a good job, no knock against him. But when you only have a handful of people to work with, it ain't easy.
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I'm having a really hard time understanding your proposal.
If I'm not mistaken, today GOAL's "main purpose" (charter) is lobbying and education. You seem to be suggesting a departure from the current status quo in favor of building a PAC to help get people elected.
If I'm not mistaken, today GOAL's "main purpose" (charter) is lobbying and education. You seem to be suggesting a departure from the current status quo in favor of building a PAC to help get people elected.
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Mike S
NES Member
Couple of things.
GOAL is the official state association of the NRA and has won state association of the year at least twice in the last decade.
GOAL will never go back to phone banks, it doesn't make sense at all. Last week the e-mail alert had over 5K opens in the first hour and it took 30 minutes max to put together.
Remember this. The key to getting pro 2A legislation passed in MA is pro 2A Democrats. GOAL is and will be working very hard with the new batch of legislators to ensure they are educated to the issues. The programs like the FSED have had significant effect, the staffers love it and talk about it year round and it grows every year.
Things will turn around, it's started already, we all need to remember it's a process and it will take time.
GOAL is the official state association of the NRA and has won state association of the year at least twice in the last decade.
GOAL will never go back to phone banks, it doesn't make sense at all. Last week the e-mail alert had over 5K opens in the first hour and it took 30 minutes max to put together.
Remember this. The key to getting pro 2A legislation passed in MA is pro 2A Democrats. GOAL is and will be working very hard with the new batch of legislators to ensure they are educated to the issues. The programs like the FSED have had significant effect, the staffers love it and talk about it year round and it grows every year.
Things will turn around, it's started already, we all need to remember it's a process and it will take time.
What email alert, and what is an "open"? Was this the one about "emergency legislation"? Is that the same subject that a bunch of pro firearms, sympathetic enthusiasts are still debating right here? How do you explain this in an email? I think there is something to be said for 1:1 human contact, but it is a logistical nightmare. I agree on education and pro legislators. I also agree things will turn around and are already starting to do so. To many negative Nancys on here.
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Someone opening the email. The actual count is probably higher, because "opens" can be tracked only by the return receipt feature (which prompts if you want to send it), or by referencing images on another host (which email readers tend to ask permission before doing).
Yeah, open hostility to any .org that abuses my phone. When I want to talk to you, I will call...
And about PACs. PACs get people elected, not lobby groups. GOAL is a lobby group. The can endorse candidates but they cant support them monetarily. They'll lose their charter. If you want to do that, form a PAC.
It does raise a valuable question, but one much bigger than GOAL.
Our opposition has a very effective PAC. It is directed by the Governor and uses taxpayer funds to get Democrats and gun grabbers elected.
Unfortunately the vast majority of gun owners think this is just fine.
Does this have a bill number yet?
I just went back to view that email again. It implores us "Please Contact Your State Legislators - Ask Them To Support This Legislation.", but I remember in the past, the email would include a link as to WHO that is, and HOW to contact them.
For those of you wondering, here is GOAL's page on "Legislator Information" and "Contacting Your State Legislator":
http://goal.org/legislatorinfo.html
OK, I just went to www.goal.org , and the web site does not even mention this legislation yet. In fact, they skipped all of 2012, and only have "2011 Legislation - Follow These Bills" ???
I just went back to view that email again. It implores us "Please Contact Your State Legislators - Ask Them To Support This Legislation.", but I remember in the past, the email would include a link as to WHO that is, and HOW to contact them.
For those of you wondering, here is GOAL's page on "Legislator Information" and "Contacting Your State Legislator":
http://goal.org/legislatorinfo.html
OK, I just went to www.goal.org , and the web site does not even mention this legislation yet. In fact, they skipped all of 2012, and only have "2011 Legislation - Follow These Bills" ???
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I called Senator Michael Moore's office a while ago, and left a message about this pending legislation with a male staff member there. I got a call back within 15 minutes from a "Julie" or "Julia" there, and she said Senator Moore had already signed on as a cosponsor of this legislation. I told her thank you, and this is why we like Senator Moore. I then went on to say cosponsoring this legislation is not enough, and that it would be GREATLY APPRECIATED if he could also ACTIVELY PUSH to get this BROUGHT TO A VOTE and PASSED as soon as possible. It is all too convenient to "have your heart in the right place", but we need to have people really go out and MOVE THIS FORWARD in order to really make a difference. I am hoping Senator Moore will not let us down this coming session.
Thank you, GOAL, for getting this on the table. Now that it is ON the table, it can be amended and fixed to make it all nicey-nice and perfect.
I encourage everyone else to contact their state senators and representatives as well. I know a lot of them are around for tree lightings and other holiday festivities. They are there to get votes, and you need to remind them their votes will come if THEY act to move this sort of legislation forward.
Now it is time to call my state rep.
Thank you, GOAL, for getting this on the table. Now that it is ON the table, it can be amended and fixed to make it all nicey-nice and perfect.
I encourage everyone else to contact their state senators and representatives as well. I know a lot of them are around for tree lightings and other holiday festivities. They are there to get votes, and you need to remind them their votes will come if THEY act to move this sort of legislation forward.
Now it is time to call my state rep.
pastera
NES Member
Called my state rep, Shaunna O'Connell, on Wednesday and received a call back today that she is co-sponsoring HD4613 and is going to work to get it reintroduced in the next session if it doesn't go anywhere this session.
MisterHappy
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Coyote-
As for getting more 2A people elected.....you have to get new voters, first. Or, change the mindset of the ones we have.
I'm guessing that most on here have little interest in wheat subsidies and tariffs on inported orange juice concentrate; to a Non, 2A issues have the same impact.
The hot-button election issues for most in the PRM are not guns and LTC issues. Until more people become shooters, this will stay that way.
Sorry if I sound old and jaded.....but I've read the Glob for a long, long time......![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
As for getting more 2A people elected.....you have to get new voters, first. Or, change the mindset of the ones we have.
I'm guessing that most on here have little interest in wheat subsidies and tariffs on inported orange juice concentrate; to a Non, 2A issues have the same impact.
The hot-button election issues for most in the PRM are not guns and LTC issues. Until more people become shooters, this will stay that way.
Sorry if I sound old and jaded.....but I've read the Glob for a long, long time......
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