GOAL and the Outdoor Message - What the hell?

[yanici]

Seems to me that I get all my GOAL News in the Friday email Newsletter. The OM is good for gun club news and ads for dealers. GOAL's dollars are being wasted, IMO.

 

[Garys]

If I knew, I wouldn't have asked. Maybe somebody else can fill me in.

I found out about the 1998 shit when I went to buy slugs for hunting season and my FID was no good. That's when I got 'involved'. What was Yacino's involvement?

I'd guess that the idea was that GOAL, via Yacino was supposed to single handedly stop the legislation from going through. Even though I was a gun owner back then, and I was warned about the legislation, like most people I didn't pay much attention. As a result we got slammed, but like you many people learned.

As to The Outdoor Message, this came up at my club. We were affiliated with GOAL and had our monthly newsletter published in The Outdoor Message. Then the Board of Directors found out (so they told us) that T.O.M. was selling the member's information. So, the BOD decided to withdraw. I was a little skeptical when I heard that, but apparently it's true.

Personally, I think that relationship should be clarified by GOAL and people given the option to opt out and save the $8.00. Everything I'm interested in, which is mostly the legislative matters, should be on the GOAL website or here on NES.

Given the amount of work and aggravation running this mad house takes, I hope Derek does make some extra money. Or at least has a big party for the moderators!

 

[Bob P]

Absolutely! I am on this site several times a day, it's well worth the $21/year for membership. And $8 a year for the Outdoor Message is pretty reasonable too. I am a bit shocked to find that people on this list are objecting to a guy making some money providing a service. And you call ME a socialist!

The issue is about choice. Right now there is none. GOAL is the only game in town and $8 of your dues goes to fund this newspaper.

I pay NES, and gladly, because I get to determine if it's worth my paying for and I believe that it is. I don't get that choice with the Outdoor Message. If I want to support GOAL, I have to support that paper. I give money to GOAL because I want my rights protected, not for a newspaper. I would rather that money being spent lobbying than going to a for-profit entity.

 

[el duderino]

Absolutely! I am on this site several times a day, it's well worth the $21/year for membership. And $8 a year for the Outdoor Message is pretty reasonable too. I am a bit shocked to find that people on this list are objecting to a guy making some money providing a service. And you call ME a socialist!

Nobodys objecting to the guy making money, they want a choice of whether their money goes to that service that they dont use or towards a better cause. It does make great kindling, ill give it that. I thought you were a fascist.

 

[Supermoto]

The issue is about choice. Right now there is none. GOAL is the only game in town and $8 of your dues goes to fund this newspaper.

I pay NES, and gladly, because I get to determine if it's worth my paying for and I believe that it is. I don't get that choice with the Outdoor Message. If I want to support GOAL, I have to support that paper. I give money to GOAL because I want my rights protected, not for a newspaper. I would rather that money being spent lobbying than going to a for-profit entity.

I bet you could make a donation to GOAL and not have any of it go to the paper.

 

[Palladin]

I'd guess that the idea was that GOAL, via Yacino was supposed to single handedly stop the legislation from going through. Even though I was a gun owner back then, and I was warned about the legislation, like most people I didn't pay much attention. As a result we got slammed, but like you many people learned.

As to The Outdoor Message, this came up at my club. We were affiliated with GOAL and had our monthly newsletter published in The Outdoor Message. Then the Board of Directors found out (so they told us) that T.O.M. was selling the member's information. So, the BOD decided to withdraw. I was a little skeptical when I heard that, but apparently it's true.

Personally, I think that relationship should be clarified by GOAL and people given the option to opt out and save the $8.00. Everything I'm interested in, which is mostly the legislative matters, should be on the GOAL website or here on NES.

Given the amount of work and aggravation running this mad house takes, I hope Derek does make some extra money. Or at least has a big party for the moderators!

So, in a nutshell, and correct me if I'm wrong...33% of a Goal members yearly dues goes to a rag that no one reads and is owned by Yacino & his daughter?

Why isn't this either outsourced for low bid? Or eliminated all together and Goal can pick up an extra $90k/ yr ?? That would go a long way toward renting a billboard on the mass pike.

 

[CosmicIrony]

Nobodys objecting to the guy making money, they want a choice of whether their money goes to that service that they dont use or towards a better cause. It does make great kindling, ill give it that. I thought you were a fascist.

Nope, fascists and socialists have always been enemies. Although I'm not a socialist anyway, but I am for sure not a fascist!

 

[Bob P]

I bet you could make a donation to GOAL and not have any of it go to the paper.

Can I be a member and not have part of my dues go to the paper?

 

[yanici]

So, in a nutshell, and correct me if I'm wrong...33% of a Goal members yearly dues goes to a rag that no one reads and is owned by Yacino & his daughter?

Why isn't this either outsourced for low bid? Or eliminated all together and Goal can pick up an extra $90k/ yr ?? That would go a long way toward renting a billboard on the mass pike.

+1 BINGO!

 

[BBQ.Uncle]

... And $8 a year for the Outdoor Message is pretty reasonable too. I am a bit shocked to find that people on this list are objecting to a guy making some money providing a service. And you call ME a socialist!

I don't object to anyone earning an honest living. What I want to know is that I'm getting good value for my hard earned money, whatever the amount. I choose to be a NES member. I appreciate the service greatly and find it of tremendous value. What I'd like to know is why $8 of my annual GOAL contribution is going to a paper publication which I have no use for. I want to know if I can opt out and be certain the money is going where I'd like it to go, which is for GOAL to use the money in other ways to fight for our 2A rights in this state.

$8 isn't a lot of money, but it sure adds up.

 

[Supermoto]

Can I be a member and not have part of my dues go to the paper?

I don't know, but it seems like you can't. But it doesn't mean you would have to be a member to make a donation.

 

[CosmicIrony]

So, in a nutshell, and correct me if I'm wrong...33% of a Goal members yearly dues goes to a rag that no one reads and is owned by Yacino & his daughter?

When you put it that way, I can see why people are dissatisfied - $8 isn't much, and I do enjoy reading about the various clubs and events, but a third of GOAL dues for it seems out of whack.

 

[Bob P]

I don't know, but it seems like you can't. But it doesn't mean you would have to be a member to make a donation.

Very true, but that doesn't change the fact that no one's asked the membership if they want 1/3 of their dues going to the paper.

 

[Rob]

Can I be a member and not have part of my dues go to the paper?

Maybe I should opt out of TOM and send in $13/year GOAL as a straight donation. That's how much is going to them anyway. I see no need to line the personal pockets of someone for some advertisement that goes immediately in the fireplace.

It's akin to the supermarket flyers. Oh look dear, ground chuck is on sale!

Oh look! A tiny bit of old news that's already been covered via the weekly GOAL email and NES...and advertisements for clubs that I don't belong to. YAY!

 

[Woodstock]

Who is Mike Yacino? He's the one guy who's done more for gun rights in MA over the last 35 years than anybody. In 1976 there was a ballot question to ban ALL handguns in MA. It had a lot of momentum, and it looked like it would pass. Mike Yacino and a bunch of volunteers wrote letters, made appearances, stood out in the rain with signs and busted their asses for months and they won. The following year, he and some of the same people founded GOAL, and he was the GOAL lobbyist for close to 30 years. He fought hard against all the idiotic bills on Beacon Hill, and he didn't compromise on our rights. He has tirelessly promoted the shooting sports and organized things like the summer outdoors camp for kids that he still supports. His family has been part of the battle for gun rights, too, and his daughter, Michelle, is now running the Message. If they make any money, God bless them. They're good guys and they've earned it. I doubt GOAL could produce and mail it in house for any less.
GOAL and The Message have been linked since the beginning. IMO the paper is a valuable resource. Not only is it a service to the clubs who use it to publish their newsletters, it keeps us informed about the news and issues we need to know about.

 

[Rob]

Who is Mike Yacino? He's the one guy who's done more for gun rights in MA over the last 35 years than anybody. In 1976 there was a ballot question to ban ALL handguns in MA. It had a lot of momentum, and it looked like it would pass. Mike Yacino and a bunch of volunteers wrote letters, made appearances, stood out in the rain with signs and busted their asses for months and they won. The following year, he and some of the same people founded GOAL, and he was the GOAL lobbyist for close to 30 years. He fought hard against all the idiotic bills on Beacon Hill, and he didn't compromise on our rights. He has tirelessly promoted the shooting sports and organized things like the summer outdoors camp for kids that he still supports. His family has been part of the battle for gun rights, too, and his daughter, Michelle, is now running the Message. If they make any money, God bless them. They're good guys and they've earned it. I doubt GOAL could produce and mail it in house for any less.
GOAL and The Message have been linked since the beginning. IMO the paper is a valuable resource. Not only is it a service to the clubs who use it to publish their newsletters, it keeps us informed about the news and issues we need to know about.

So "we" pay him 90K a year for his work 35 years ago? That's a hell of a thank you.

 

[Underwhere]

What's the deal here? So some weeks ago there was a thread about the Outdoor Message not being owned by GOAL – which shocked the hell out of me. I mean I assumed etc etc. So looking at the membership application for GOAL it says almost $8 of every annual membership fee goes to the Outdoor Message. That's something like $90,000 a year!

Have you SEEN the Outdoor Message? GOAL's got like what, four pages? The rest is gunclub news and ads. I CHECKED with my club (who has a page). They PAY for that space.

So the Outdoor Message gets paid by the clubs. I assume they make money off those ads AND they get $90k from GOAL on top of that? Someone please tell me I'm doing the math wrong here because that seems, to me at least, to be a poor use of GOAL's funds. I mean does anyone actually READ the Outdoor Message?

I really don't understand what you are so upset about.

The Outdoor Message is print media that reaches people and is tangible. Having something like that is important and I doubt that GOAL has the resources to print and distribute something like that themselves.

Did you know that their Friday email isn't sent by GOAL directly? It's sent by an email marketing company that is for-profit. Do you have a problem with that too?

I really don't understand the fuss.

I would suggest that if you really have a big problem about it then call up GOAL and see what they say. They've always treated me well.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Let's put it this way, Failed to be involved. There was a move afoot then, to create a system where intructors could be paid for conducting training. That was how that came about.

Anybody who knows Yacino, Knows it is about MONEY

Great. Another cryptic answer.

Can somebody tell me in precise language how Yacino screwed gun owners in 1998? I've heard rumors and cryptic bullshit like this. What did he do?

Personally, I think that relationship should be clarified by GOAL and people given the option to opt out and save the $8.00. Everything I'm interested in, which is mostly the legislative matters, should be on the GOAL website or here on NES.

The Outdoor Message gets a lot more than $8 per GOAL member. My club pays a good amount to the OM every month for 1/2 page of space and a copy for each club member. Many of us are GOAL members (that pay the $8 anyway) and we don't get two copies. Multiply me times the number of GOAL members at my club(s) times the number of clubs that get space in the OM and there's a lot of double-dipping going on.

It is how it is done. Derek does not represent us as a lobbist, and Executive Director of a Gun Rights Group, Then include the $21.00 in the membership fee.

Jim Wallace is the Executive director/lobbyist for GOAL. He's paid a salary. He doesn't have an equity interest in the Outdoor Message bonanza. Jim is an employee and a figurehead. He has no power to change this; he's just the one that takes the heat. I wouldn't want his job.

I bet you could make a donation to GOAL and not have any of it go to the paper.

Yeah, you can.

 

[Bob P]

I really don't understand what you are so upset about.

The Outdoor Message is print media that reaches people and is tangible. Having something like that is important and I doubt that GOAL has the resources to print and distribute something like that themselves.

Did you know that their Friday email isn't sent by GOAL directly? It's sent by an email marketing company that is for-profit. Do you have a problem with that too?

I really don't understand the fuss.

I would suggest that if you really have a big problem about it then call up GOAL and see what they say. They've always treated me well.

Actually I did. I haven't gotten an answer and it's been over a month and a half of following up.

 

[yanici]

My last post on this. IMO the OM has outlived it's usefulness to GOAL. It is merely a drain on funds that could be used elsewhere. Hell, give some of the office help a raise in pay but stop drivling it away. Amen.

 

[Underwhere]

Actually I did. I haven't gotten an answer and it's been over a month and a half of following up.

What did they say when you first called them?

 

[economist]

I really don't understand what you are so upset about.

The Outdoor Message is print media that reaches people and is tangible. Having something like that is important and I doubt that GOAL has the resources to print and distribute something like that themselves.

Did you know that their Friday email isn't sent by GOAL directly? It's sent by an email marketing company that is for-profit. Do you have a problem with that too?

I really don't understand the fuss.

I would suggest that if you really have a big problem about it then call up GOAL and see what they say. They've always treated me well.

I'm not upset or even a little surprised, so I can't answer for those folks. But, one thing I will say is that related party transactions within a not-for-profit deserve extreme scrutiny. You mention that some company sends emails. If that company is not a related party then I can probably have some confidence that the fee is a market rate. But this payment to The Outdoor Message, given that it seems to be run by the ex-president of GOAL, is another thing altogether. Is this job bid out? Do they even consider an alternative publication style or vender? Is this the best use of GOAL funds? Or is it just a retirement plan, disguised as a marketing expense?

I'll be clear: I don't know the answers to any of this, but I am completely confident that these are good questions and deserve to be answered given the circumstances.

 

[Bob P]

What did they say when you first called them?

I actually asked the question at the June 6 BOD meeting. I was told they needed to discuss it. That's been pretty much the response I've gotten each time I've followed up since then (every two weeks).

 

[jarhead66]

Who is Mike Yacino? He's the one guy who's done more for gun rights in MA over the last 35 years than anybody. In 1976 there was a ballot question to ban ALL handguns in MA. It had a lot of momentum, and it looked like it would pass. Mike Yacino and a bunch of volunteers wrote letters, made appearances, stood out in the rain with signs and busted their asses for months and they won. The following year, he and some of the same people founded GOAL, and he was the GOAL lobbyist for close to 30 years. He fought hard against all the idiotic bills on Beacon Hill, and he didn't compromise on our rights. He has tirelessly promoted the shooting sports and organized things like the summer outdoors camp for kids that he still supports. His family has been part of the battle for gun rights, too, and his daughter, Michelle, is now running the Message. If they make any money, God bless them. They're good guys and they've earned it. I doubt GOAL could produce and mail it in house for any less.
GOAL and The Message have been linked since the beginning. IMO the paper is a valuable resource. Not only is it a service to the clubs who use it to publish their newsletters, it keeps us informed about the news and issues we need to know about.

This.

I've known Mike from the beginning. I used to be a match director for big bore silhouettes and Mike would do all he could to get shooters involved back in the late 70's. I've stood in the statehouse with Mike Yacino and Roy Inis when Dukakis was governor.
I read TOM every month. Especially Mike's column because it reminds me of when we were young. If he makes some money on it, so what? I'm sure that the paper isn't free. Or the ink or the presses or the mailing costs for that matter.

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

Never heard of the Outdoor Message until this thread...so yea, it's wasted money.

 

[Underwhere]

My last post on this. IMO the OM has outlived it's usefulness to GOAL. It is merely a drain on funds that could be used elsewhere. Hell, give some of the office help a raise in pay but stop drivling it away. Amen.

I have some experience with both print and online media/marketing and know the effects of not having it.

There is quite a lot to be said about being top of mind and without something showing up in the mail reminding you of the fight we are in, the good things going on in the community, the bad things going on in legislature, then the cause becomes a once-a-year thought.

If this print mail is discontinued you better believe they will lose membership and people will become complacent because they will be uninformed about what is going on.

Whether or not you read every page of the OM, it doesn't matter. The average attention span of a person is roughly 3 seconds nowadays. If all you see is a picture of someone enjoying a firearm on the front page, or glance at a ridiculous new bill that is being considered then the OM has done some good.

 

[Blitz1]

My last post on this. IMO the OM has outlived it's usefulness to GOAL. It is merely a drain on funds that could be used elsewhere. Hell, give some of the office help a raise in pay but stop drivling it away. Amen.

+1

There should be an option for those who don't want their money to go to something that they don't receive any benefit from.

 

[Rob]

....If he makes some money on it, so what? I'm sure that the paper isn't free. Or the ink or the presses or the mailing costs for that matter.

Hang on. $90,000 A YEAR goes into his or his family's pocket from donations to a not-for-profit organization that he formerly ran. And you are OK with this? Is everyone else here OK with this? If so, then close the thread, because there is nothing more to discuss and everyone loves Yacino and wants to give him lots of money.

 

[Underwhere]

I'm not upset or even a little surprised, so I can't answer for those folks. But, one thing I will say is that related party transactions within a not-for-profit deserve extreme scrutiny. You mention that some company sends emails. If that company is not a related party then I can probably have some confidence that the fee is a market rate. But this payment to The Outdoor Message, given that it seems to be run by the ex-president of GOAL, is another thing altogether. Is this job bid out? Do they even consider an alternative publication style or vender? Is this the best use of GOAL funds? Or is it just a retirement plan, disguised as a marketing expense?

I'll be clear: I don't know the answers to any of this, but I am completely confident that these are good questions and deserve to be answered given the circumstances.

I agree but there is another side to the story. If you had a need to purchase a service (in this case a print newspaper), wouldn't you want the money to go to someone you knew rather than a random vendor? Would you have the Globe print it if you had a gun enthusiast with a print business as an alternative?

I can say from experience that even putting together a 1 page email takes a TON of time and I can foresee the OM taking up at least 1 full time job to produce. I send a monthly newsletter out to about 20k people and it takes me (not designing from scratch) at least 2 full time days to get it done.

We do that all the time on NES, asking for mechanics or even NES business owners that we'd rather give money to because we believe in similar ideals. I don't see the problem with that...especially for $1.50 an issue (including postage) I don't think anyone is making millions off of this.

I actually asked the question at the June 6 BOD meeting. I was told they needed to discuss it. That's been pretty much the response I've gotten each time I've followed up since then (every two weeks).

I'm interested to hear what comes of it.

 

[economist]

This.

I've known Mike from the beginning. I used to be a match director for big bore silhouettes and Mike would do all he could to get shooters involved back in the late 70's. I've stood in the statehouse with Mike Yacino and Roy Inis when Dukakis was governor.
I read TOM every month. Especially Mike's column because it reminds me of when we were young. If he makes some money on it, so what? I'm sure that the paper isn't free. Or the ink or the presses or the mailing costs for that matter.

Whether the recipient of a substantial portion of GOAL's member contributions is or was a good guy is not the point. The point is that a significant fee is being paid to a related party for a questionable service at what may or may not be a market rate. That deserves some scrutiny, don't you think?

I agree but there is another side to the story. If you had a need to purchase a service (in this case a print newspaper), wouldn't you want the money to go to someone you knew rather than a random vendor? Would you have the Globe print it if you had a gun enthusiast with a print business as an alternative

Let's air it out. Let everyone know what is happening as well as whether a competitive bid has been considered. But absolutely, let's hear all sides.