Friend applying first time for an LTC with a 30yr old incident.

speedy

speedy

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Have a friend applying for an LTC for the first time.
He move from NY state 30 yrs ago to Ma. When he was 18 he used someones credit card, and got caught. In court, his charges were reduced, not sure to what, and his records sealed after community service.(dad spent lots of money). According to him the charges should not be visible. His question is of course, should he mention the only incident involving the law in the LTC? He has an excellent record with not even traffic violations.
is this something that shows up after 30 yrs from an out of state incident?
I understand honesty is the beat policy. Is there a way to check your records for stuff like this just to see how it may appear?
 
speedy said:
Have a friend applying for an LTC for the first time.
He move from NY state 30 yrs ago to Ma. When he was 18 he used someones credit card, and got caught. In court, his charges were reduced, not sure to what, and his records sealed after community service.(dad spent lots of money). According to him the charges should not be visible. His question is of course, should he mention the only incident involving the law in the LTC? He has an excellent record with not even traffic violations.
is this something that shows up after 30 yrs from an out of state incident?
I understand honesty is the beat policy. Is there a way to check your records for stuff like this just to see how it may appear?
Click to expand...
He should call a fire arm attorney first and pay for the consult. Why?

If he doesn't put it down and it is in his record he's totally f***ed.

If he puts it down and the licensing officer uses it as a denial it is harder to get an appeal approved.

If the charges were reduced......and the potential jail time COULD HAVE BEEN 2 years sentence he's a fed pp at this point and would definitely need a lawyer to assist in getting his rights restored. His actual sentence of community service is irrelevant. What matters is what he could have been sentenced to.

Call a lawyer before he even applies.
 
nstassel said:
He has to be honest and disclose. Sealing never helps with licensing.
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I could not agree more. Honesty goes a long way, especially when getting a LTC. First and foremost your suitability will be considered. Young people do lots of stupid things and I'm sure the chief will consider that. It's not like this guy committed a violent crime.
 
whacko said:
He should call a fire arm attorney first and pay for the consult. Why?

If he doesn't put it down and it is in his record he's totally f***ed.

If he puts it down and the licensing officer uses it as a denial it is harder to get an appeal approved.

If the charges were reduced......and the potential jail time COULD HAVE BEEN 2 years sentence he's a fed pp at this point and would definitely need a lawyer to assist in getting his rights restored. His actual sentence of community service is irrelevant. What matters is what he could have been sentenced to.

Call a lawyer before he even applies.
Click to expand...


Good advice. But the reduced charge is the charge of record. A lawyer will help him state only what he should.
 
mousegunfan said:
Good advice. But the reduced charge is the charge of record. A lawyer will help him state only what he should.
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I know. I'm saying that the charge being reduced doesn't mean squat. What matters is whatever he was convicted of or pleas guilty to (reduced or not) if the potential sentence was 2 years it doesn't matter that the judge gave him community service. Perhaps my reply was vague. What I was trying to convey is that the op says his charges were reduced as if that was something that would help his friend in the application when in fact it doesn't mean anything at all.
 
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Sparky123 said:
I could not agree more. Honesty goes a long way, especially when getting a LTC. First and foremost your suitability will be considered. Young people do lots of stupid things and I'm sure the chief will consider that. It's not like this guy committed a violent crime.
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This is not even close to reality in many towns. I know a woman that was denied an ltc because she was put in protective custody when she was drunk at a party when she was 17. At age 26 she applied for an ltc in the same town. They remembered the incident and denied her. No charges were ever filed just pc and released to her parents. Never ever assume that a licensing officer in mass is a "nice guy" and understands that people do dumb things in their youth. Call a lawyer before you apply if you have any negative interactions with the popo in your past. Its money well spent to avoid the hassle of a denial.

Also this is not a matter of "honesty is the best policy".....its a crime to lie on the application.
 
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Sealing isn't as "sealed" as one would think and varies state to state. I had a little trouble as a kid (sub 18). Record was supposed to have been sealed after an incident free 3 year period after my court case ended with a CWOF. Out of curiosity, I CORI'd myself a couple years ago (a good 21 years later) and it pulls right up, clear as day. I'd consult an attorney.
 
This used to be a lot less complicated, now, not so much.
Too many ifs, ands, and butts nowadays.
Even what town he lives in could make a huge difference.
Unfortunately, best bet for success probably should include professional legal advice, and with all due respect, this ain't to place to get it.
I know there are some NES'rs with some level of legal background, but to be honest, unless you write a check for the advice, its probably not worth any more than what you paid for it.
 
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ReluctantDecoy said:
Sealing isn't as "sealed" as one would think and varies state to state. I had a little trouble as a kid (sub 18). Record was supposed to have been sealed after an incident free 3 year period after my court case ended with a CWOF. Out of curiosity, I CORI'd myself a couple years ago (a good 21 years later) and it pulls right up, clear as day. I'd consult an attorney.
Click to expand...
This^^^^
 
whacko said:
This is not even close to reality in many towns. I know a woman that was denied an ltc because she was put in protective custody when she was drunk at a party when she was 17. At age 26 she applied for an ltc in the same town. They remembered the incident and denied her. No charges were ever filed just pc and released to her parents. Never ever assume that a licensing officer in mass is a "nice guy" and understands that people do dumb things in their youth. Call a lawyer before you apply if you have any negative interactions with the popo in your past. Its money well spent to avoid the hassle of a denial.

Also this is not a matter of "honesty is the best policy".....its a crime to lie on the application.
Click to expand...

Hey! We all know that Massachusetts sucks. But there are a few police chiefs who will look at this situation fairly. Not every police chief should be considered bad. Before you judge anyone you should always give that person a chance. I know a few people who got screwed too, I think we all do. But I also know a few people who received their LTC with no trouble at all. What I meant by honesty is the best policy is this, if your honest then you don't have to worry about committing any criminal offenses.
 
Sparky123 said:
Hey! We all know that Massachusetts sucks. But there are a few police chiefs who will look at this situation fairly. Not every police chief should be considered bad. Before you judge anyone you should always give that person a chance. I know a few people who got screwed too, I think we all do. But I also know a few people who received their LTC with no trouble at all. What I meant by honesty is the best policy is this, if your honest then you don't have to worry about committing any criminal offenses.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but we have to assume they all s*ck. Because giving them a chance can mean a denial.

I agree with what you say, however all the advice given above is great. Approach it with caution, talk to an attorney, take it from there.
 
Sparky123 said:
Hey! We all know that Massachusetts sucks. But there are a few police chiefs who will look at this situation fairly. Not every police chief should be considered bad. Before you judge anyone you should always give that person a chance. I know a few people who got screwed too, I think we all do. But I also know a few people who received their LTC with no trouble at all. What I meant by honesty is the best policy is this, if your honest then you don't have to worry about committing any criminal offenses.
Click to expand...
Don't put words in my mouth.....I never said they are all bad I said the good ones are not a reality in many towns and that's true.

Your advice is basically be honest.....and roll the dice that the chief is one of the good ones and take a chance on a denial.

My advice is different. Don't assume he's one of the good ones and call a lawyer first. My advice equals almost certain approval or at least avoiding a costly application if it turns out the lawyer advises him he has zero chance. Your advice equals rolling the dice. Let the op decide.
 
Well, I just checked Google and NY doesn't allow for expungement of criminal records (no surprise there), so that's out of the question.
 
Thanks for the comments. My thoughts are the same, To talk to a lawyer. Sad that at 50ish he needs to fear the sins of early stupidity.
His town is green, so that’s a plus.
Any attorney suggestions in the metro west area?
Hoping to recruit a new gun owner in mass.
 
LoginName said:
Well, I just checked Google and NY doesn't allow for expungement of criminal records (no surprise there), so that's out of the question.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the father was monetarily convincing enough to get this reduced to a Class A misdemeanor. Probably "unlawful use of credit or debit card" instead of the felony versions. If that's the case, then sealing should have been an option, but look at my above post about sealing.
 
do not apply yet

go to the court and get ALL records including disposition

Get a copy of CORI report

Lawyer up for a consult.

Easier to spend time and $$$ before the fact rather than fight a denial that WILL follow you for life
 
whacko said:
Your advice is basically be honest.....and roll the dice that the chief is one of the good ones and take a chance on a denial.

My advice is different. Don't assume he's one of the good ones and call a lawyer first. My advice equals almost certain approval or at least avoiding a costly application if it turns out the lawyer advises him he has zero chance. Your advice equals rolling the dice. Let the op decide.
Click to expand...

Hear, hear.

Go in like a trusting naïf and there are two potential outcomes:
  • Get lucky
  • Get boned
Hire lawyer first, well, there still the same two potential outcomes, it if path 2 happens, at least you aren’t paying the lawyer to UNbone you before he (she/whatevs) gets you to LTC nirvana

R
 
speedy said:
His question is of course, should he mention the only incident involving the law in the LTC?
Click to expand...

YES. He will get formally denied if he fails to disclose. This is not something he can get cute with, or plausibly play dumb when called out by the licensing officer.
 
whacko said:
This is not even close to reality in many towns. I know a woman that was denied an ltc because she was put in protective custody when she was drunk at a party when she was 17. At age 26 she applied for an ltc in the same town. They remembered the incident and denied her. No charges were ever filed just pc and released to her parents. Never ever assume that a licensing officer in mass is a "nice guy" and understands that people do dumb things in their youth. Call a lawyer before you apply if you have any negative interactions with the popo in your past. Its money well spent to avoid the hassle of a denial.

Also this is not a matter of "honesty is the best policy".....its a crime to lie on the application.
Click to expand...

Yup, and nothing is ever sealed in MA. Someone I know almost lost his initial liquor license because he got caught smoking a joint when he was 15 and "forgot" to disclose it.
 
Emacs said:
YES. He will get formally denied if he fails to disclose. This is not something he can get cute with, or plausibly play dumb when called out by the licensing officer.
Click to expand...
And then every time he is asked "have you ever been denied?" He will have to answer "yes".

Op, if your friend doesn't consult an attorney, then I would say he hasn't learned much in the past 30 years.
 
Attorney Jason A. Guida is the leading expert on Massachusetts firearms laws and regulations. His extensive knowledge and hands-on experience makes him the first choice for clients seeking advice on complicated firearms licensing issues, firearms-related criminal matters and the restoration of firearms rights.

lawguida.com

Attorney Jason A. Guida

The Expert on Massachusetts Firearms Laws and Regulations
lawguida.com lawguida.com
 
Attorney Tassel has already weighed in, I,d recommend getting a copy of the court records and giving him a call. It,s a lot cheaper to do it right the first time than fighting it after the fact. I would also guess a lot less stressful.
 

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