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Fox New Boston's crappy reporting on Mass gun raffles
- Thread starter rogues
- Start date
Wait- I've been trying to follow along with this without giving clicks on this editorial trash- was this a ffl raffling, or was this a private Facebook group with peer to peer transactions?
GOAL mentioned that they'd been audited at the GOAL dinner for their raffles 2 years ago and a ffl I used who used to raffle firearms monthly stopped when they became aware of the raffle laws maybe a year later....
They were not FFL's.
These were private transactions that someone affiliated with the FB groups would pull raffle tickets for. The only one receiving funds was the owner of the firearms.
These were private transactions that someone affiliated with the FB groups would pull raffle tickets for. The only one receiving funds was the owner of the firearms.
I think peer to peer, I'm not positive since I don't have a FB, but a guy in work has partaking in a few of these raffles. From what it sounded like, Instead of listing a gun for sale for $600, you go on there and they sell 30 tix at $20, winner gets the gun. From there I think it was between the 2 partys to decide on a FTF or an FFL TRF.
Sounded like a cool way to sell/buy, he won a few things on there for short money, It actually made me consider starting a FB just to get in on it.
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namedpipes
NES Member
I'd understood the transfers were handled by an FFL, which means he'd have neutered the firearms to MA rules.
If 1) the raffle had been conducted in a state where raffles are legal (conduct all postings at a Starbucks in NH?), 2) the firearms were made compliant before coming to MA (or sent to an FFL here that would make them so), 3) an FFL were used to do the transfer unless both parties were MA residents, 4) any appropriate taxes are paid and finally, 5) the transaction did not constitute a pattern of business (not one seller selling dozens of guns, but many sellers each selling a gun or three), nobody would be in trouble and liberal heads would be exploding. Oh yeah, and the FA-10. Can't forget that.
If 1) the raffle had been conducted in a state where raffles are legal (conduct all postings at a Starbucks in NH?), 2) the firearms were made compliant before coming to MA (or sent to an FFL here that would make them so), 3) an FFL were used to do the transfer unless both parties were MA residents, 4) any appropriate taxes are paid and finally, 5) the transaction did not constitute a pattern of business (not one seller selling dozens of guns, but many sellers each selling a gun or three), nobody would be in trouble and liberal heads would be exploding. Oh yeah, and the FA-10. Can't forget that.
Guess this is the first time I thought about used guns being subject to the AG regulations nonsense when it comes to trigger pulls and stuff. Seems to me if its annuity of state transfer there might be a small leg to stand on, but if I sell something online, ran out of ftf transfers, and then needed a FFL I wouldn't think it'd be the ffl's job to interfere with the otherwise legal transfer.
namedpipes
NES Member
I meant more like pinning the stocks, grinding off bayo lugs...
The FFL is SUPPOSED to ensure the transfer is legal. His license depends on it. He's only needed if one of the parties to the transfer is from another state.
mikeyp
NES Member
That's pretty much it. You need to show a copy of your LTC to be in the group, all laws followed(AFAIK) you were only supposed to do ~100 over MSRP. It was on the up and up, never saw a complaint and the mods did the raffle livestreamed to eliminate cheating
Funny thing is the reporter called those "safety features required by Massachusetts" and claimed it was "left up to the winner" - but in the background as he said it, you could see the email in question which clearly stated that the winner would be responsible for the cost of having those things done. I would assume that means by the owner, by gunsmith before the gun was given to the FFL for transfer, or by the FFL/gunsmith before the transfer was completed.
FWIW I've done FFL transfers in-state while I still had some or all of my allotted private transfers left for the year. Never know when you might want or need to sell a firearm that can't be transferred through a shop for whatever reason - I prefer to keep my options open, and you get less than a handful of personals per year.
I almost hope an FFL was involved, at least then the only "crime" is the raffle BS. If it's someone buying and selling its going to look a lot like he is buying to sell. And that could get the feds involved.
The whole thing is BS
The whole thing is BS
namedpipes
NES Member
In MA we're limited to 4 sales per year. (unless you go through an FFL). Yeah I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but look at it this way.
Selling four guns a year nets maybe a couple hundred bucks, assuming you know where to buy low and sell high. TRIPLE that and figure he makes $600.
That's NOT a business. That's just a fickle gun buyer. Nobody will pay the rent with that income. Barely even pay for coffee.
So in a sense, Mass is protecting us from ourselves
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
(keeping us from being viewed as gun dealers without credentials)
In MA we're limited to 4 sales per year. (unless you go through an FFL). Yeah I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but look at it this way.
Selling four guns a year nets maybe a couple hundred bucks, assuming you know where to buy low and sell high. TRIPLE that and figure he makes $600.
That's NOT a business. That's just a fickle gun buyer. Nobody will pay the rent with that income. Barely even pay for coffee.
So in a sense, Mass is protecting us from ourselves
(keeping us from being viewed as gun dealers without credentials)
Well they seem to be saying that the guns are picked up (transferred) through an ffl, so the 4 gun FtF limit goes away. But if the guy is buying guns with the "intent" to sell them, he'll have a problem with the fed (straw purchase). Normally proving intent at the time of purchase is really difficult. Who's to say you didn't change you mind as you walked out of the gun store. But a jury would probably assign "intent" if they saw a pattern of buying and raffling guns... especially because GUNS. I don't think the guys doing multiple raffles thought this through.
As much as the laws are BS and I don't agree with them, they are the laws we have (oh wait "YOU" have, I'm a NH resident now), and everyone makes a choice to either follow them or not. I followed the laws while I fought to change them but eventually had to say FUMA and moved. BTW I have no intent of stopping my fight against MA stupid gun laws, I'm just doing it in exile.
