I currently have a MA LTC class A license and need to fly to a state that honors my license, but I need to fly out of Hartford, CT. So I will be driving from central MA to Hartford, CT which does not honor my MA permit. If I follow all the laws as far as secure cases for pistol and ammo from the time I leave my house, would I have trouble upon checking in my case at the airport?
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Flying and guns question
- Thread starter mattboston
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dcmdon
NES Member
The short answer is NO.
Although the Second Circuit Appeals Court has gutted FOPA and their opinions affect CT, they generally don't hassle people at Bradley. Just make sure you are in compliance with FOPA.
Don
p.s. Now I'm going to read that thread in the members section.
Although the Second Circuit Appeals Court has gutted FOPA and their opinions affect CT, they generally don't hassle people at Bradley. Just make sure you are in compliance with FOPA.
Don
p.s. Now I'm going to read that thread in the members section.
That thread in the members forum seems to be about getting caught in a layover. And the airline handing you your locked case in a non-friendly state. Mine is about traveling to a non-friendly state as my departure airport, then flying to a friendly one. If my firearm is secure when I cross into CT, and I check it immediately at the airport, will FOPA cover me?
My concern would be flying back into Hartford at the end of your trip. You would be flying into a non-friendly state and taking possession.
Garys
NES Member
Other than PA NY/NJ airports, I don't think that anyone has ever had a problem. I've flown out of and into TF Green with no problem, as well as Logan. As far as I can tell, no one from any airline has ever contacted anyone about declared firearms.
I don't even know if you need a permit for mere possession in CT, or just for concealed carry. Even in MD, you don't need a permit to purchase, just to conceal carry. At least my friend who lives there never mentioned that she needed a permit to purchase and keep in her house. MA is way outside the mainstream in that regard when it comes to firearms.
The main concern of the airlines seems to be that the case be declared and locked before they will accept it. Again today, flying out of Logan, they didn't even ask to open the case. Fill out the card, sign it, and they tape it to the outside of the box (if the box is inside a suitcase).
I don't even know if you need a permit for mere possession in CT, or just for concealed carry. Even in MD, you don't need a permit to purchase, just to conceal carry. At least my friend who lives there never mentioned that she needed a permit to purchase and keep in her house. MA is way outside the mainstream in that regard when it comes to firearms.
The main concern of the airlines seems to be that the case be declared and locked before they will accept it. Again today, flying out of Logan, they didn't even ask to open the case. Fill out the card, sign it, and they tape it to the outside of the box (if the box is inside a suitcase).
You could always ship it to your local ffl on yoyr way back if you're worried about ct airport
x2
Title 49 → Subtitle B → Chapter XII → Subchapter C → Part 1540
<http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=2d3c52f94cfd7861050fbe840e839858;rgn=div5;view=text;node=49%3A9.1.3.5.9;idno=49;cc=ecfr>
49 CFR 1540.111 - Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.
<https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/1540.111>
Traveling with Ammunition
<http://phmsa.dot.gov/safetravel/ammunition>
Hazardous Materials Table - PHMSA
<http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/pv_obj_cache/pv_obj_id_7482D0DD9A1114E18A77788F3DAC7522F4F11500/filename/Alpha_Hazmat_Table.pdf>
Passenger Dangerous Goods Corner
<https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Pages/dgr-guidance.aspx>
Frequently Asked Questions
<https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Pages/faq.aspx>
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I live here in CT and have flown many times with both pistols and long guns out of BDL. Never have I been asked to show a permit or any documentation that would prove I have the "right" to have a handgun in CT, even though I do. Frankly, the first time I flew with a handgun in my luggage, I was sure they would ask me to show them my permit but never did. Gun was locked and packed in a hard case, locked, left in my luggage and off it went to the destination. This is NOT to say for 100% sure that someday that might change. Don't know why it would. I know that in NY they DO ask and have caught many travelers. In effect, when you carry your luggage out of the trunk you are considered to have "constructive receipt" of your handgun (even though it's locked up) so, since you don't have a local state permit, the law could easily be against you. As stated above, coming home is the same thing. You're in possession of a handgun without the proper permit.
Oh, also study up on diverted flights. I did not read the post mentioned but the essence of it will probably be......DON'T collect your bag in NY or NJ if you are diverted. Have a supervisor go with you and have them hold your bag until the next flight so you are never in receipt of your gun in a non-permitted state.e
The bottom line? I tend to be very conservative when it comes to flying with guns because it's not just an inconvenience that happens but a life-altering event, getting arrested and losing my rights. I would not fly out of Hartford with a handgun without a CT permit because of the unknown factor of being challenged while checking in even though it hasn't happened to my knowlege. As a CT resident, non-permitted in MA, I won't fly out of Boston with a handgun for the very reason. Too many chances that I'd get singled out somehow and ruin things. Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.
Rome
Oh, also study up on diverted flights. I did not read the post mentioned but the essence of it will probably be......DON'T collect your bag in NY or NJ if you are diverted. Have a supervisor go with you and have them hold your bag until the next flight so you are never in receipt of your gun in a non-permitted state.e
The bottom line? I tend to be very conservative when it comes to flying with guns because it's not just an inconvenience that happens but a life-altering event, getting arrested and losing my rights. I would not fly out of Hartford with a handgun without a CT permit because of the unknown factor of being challenged while checking in even though it hasn't happened to my knowlege. As a CT resident, non-permitted in MA, I won't fly out of Boston with a handgun for the very reason. Too many chances that I'd get singled out somehow and ruin things. Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.
Rome
I recently had this discussion with a local gun shop about the same airport, and he's well versed in transporting firearms out of state. His advice, which seems to be the most fail safe, is to get a non resident LTC in CT. Granted other people have stated they haven't had a problem, my luck I would be that .01% that gets carded. So the cost of getting the CT LTC is much cheaper than getting in trouble with the law. My opinion it's not worth the risk taking a chance. Shipping the firearm is also an option.
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+1 on getting a non-resident license/permit for CT. I ended up applying for my MA non-resident LTC before we planned a trip that required air travel. Just in case we had to go through Logan.
We have a trip planned and I'll be sure to do the following:
1. Pack everything according to the TSA's and the airline's' policies.
2. Print two copies of the TSA and airline polices.
3. Print an extra copy of the LTC/permit/P&R license.
4. Take a picture and email a copy of the luggage, firearm (including serial number).
5. Arrive 30 minutes earlier than what the airline suggests.
We have a trip planned and I'll be sure to do the following:
1. Pack everything according to the TSA's and the airline's' policies.
2. Print two copies of the TSA and airline polices.
3. Print an extra copy of the LTC/permit/P&R license.
4. Take a picture and email a copy of the luggage, firearm (including serial number).
5. Arrive 30 minutes earlier than what the airline suggests.
dcmdon
NES Member
Why? You're in FOPA compliance and to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever been hassled picking up firearms at BDL.
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Getting caught in a layover is how most people get caught in NY/NJ at the Port Authority airports.
Don
dcmdon
NES Member
This is a MA resident's solution to everything. Seriously no insult is inetnded. But you don't need permission TWICE from government to do this.
I feel another offer coming on. Because I"m not as sure as my offer re death or serious injury by bullets absent a gun. (That $100 bill is still in my pocket. )
I'll offer $50 to anyone who can come up with any example of an otherwise law abiding person arrested and prosecuted for a firearms offense trying to check a gun through Bradley.
Step right up and take my money.
Don
p.s. I fully intend to pay. But if I do lose, I'm hoping you will instead have me donate it to Comm2A in your name. I will of course provide proof of donation made.
Mark from MA
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Fly out of manchester or ship the gun. Just because it hasnt happened wont mean you wont be the first. I dont trust CT anymore
On my business trips i try to fly out of manchester so i have no worries about hicaps and such.
I try not to give money to unfriendly states when i can.
Otherwise send to an ffl to where your flying
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On my business trips i try to fly out of manchester so i have no worries about hicaps and such.
I try not to give money to unfriendly states when i can.
Otherwise send to an ffl to where your flying
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No offense sir, but I'll trust my dealers advice that has been in the industry for a very long time over someone on the Internet. All it takes is one time to be up to your ear lobes in trouble. The cost of the LTC is peanuts compared to hiring a lawyer, court, spending the night in jail in Hartford.... Never been to jail, but I'm guessing one in Hartford isn't a pleasant stay! Yeah it sucks, but unfortunately that's the way it is. It's a free country, well at least in some ways, do what ya feel like doing and I wish ya the best of luck.
I'm sorry I had no idea, I just play it by the book when it comes to firearms. If you have a LTC there, no way to get into trouble....
From what hat I just looked up online in CT law dcmdon is absolutely right, anyone permitted to carry a firearm can do so. I'll put my foot in my mouth now, and am now second guessing if my dealer even knows what he's talking about.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
From what hat I just looked up online in CT law dcmdon is absolutely right, anyone permitted to carry a firearm can do so. I'll put my foot in my mouth now, and am now second guessing if my dealer even knows what he's talking about.
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I travel for work all the time and fly out of Bradley, I live in MA. I carry when going to states that honor my LTC A. I've never had an issue at Bradley. It's a super easy process and no-one asks questions. As long as the gun is unloaded and packed correctly, you're fine. I usually have a box of Hornady Critical defense in my check-in luggage too, you can carry up to 11lbs of ammo (but do check with the airline on that one) on most airlines as long as it is in the original packaging.
I also carry while flying a helicopter at work but thats' different
I also carry while flying a helicopter at work but thats' different
Garys
NES Member
The 11 pound thing is apparently an FAA rule. I have no idea how they came up with that. I did once have someone from SWA insist it was 11 oz, until she realized how silly that was. Jet Blue has a goofy rule that the ammunition can't be in the same locked box as the firearms. Air Tran had the same rule, but now that SWA owns them and the brand is dead, it's moot.
Ammuntion has to be in the "original package" or packaging designed for ammunition. No one seems to care, I've packed it in Tupperware in the past. I have a couple of small MTM cases that I haven't used yet, but those should be fine.
The carry while flying a helicopter story is probably more interesting than this thread!
Jet Blue has a goofy rule that the ammunition can't be in the same locked box as the firearms. Air Tran had the same rule, but now that SWA owns them and the brand is dead, it's moot. Ammuntion has to be in the "original package" or packaging designed for ammunition. No one seems to care, I've packed it in Tupperware in the past. I have a couple of small MTM cases that I haven't used yet, but those should be fine.
The carry while flying a helicopter story is probably more interesting than this thread!
I travel for work all the time and fly out of Bradley, I live in MA. I carry when going to states that honor my LTC A. I've never had an issue at Bradley. It's a super easy process and no-one asks questions. As long as the gun is unloaded and packed correctly, you're fine. I usually have a box of Hornady Critical defense in my check-in luggage too, you can carry up to 11lbs of ammo (but do check with the airline on that one) on most airlines as long as it is in the original packaging.
I also carry while flying a helicopter at work but thats' different
2 years ago I flew from Bradley to Dallas while changing duty stations. I announced to the TSA women in baggage check in that I had a firearm and she politely asked me to open the locked hard case it was in where she then placed a card in it and had me lock the case back up and had me on my way. When I came back home I had 2 extra non-MA compliant locked cases and and TSA never even had me open the cases and simply threw the same card into luggage the boxes were in and had me on my way. I was picked up at Bradley and went straight home without making a stop. So the process was simple and I never worried about it though I don't know how much laws in CT have changed in the last year. I also won't add that in certain countries (won't say which) I wasn't of legal drinking age. Overall it's a simple process, try not to over think it, carry a print out of the laws of where your coming and going from and airline and TSA rules as I did and as soon as your off the plane run to baggage and get your stuff.
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and and TSA never even had me open the cases and simply threw the same card into luggage the boxes were in and had me on my way. I was picked up at Bradley and went straight home without making a stop. So the process was simple and I never worried about it though I don't know how much laws in CT have changed in the last year. I also won't add that in certain countries (won't say which) I wasn't of legal drinking age. Overall it's a simple process, try not to over think it, carry a print out of the laws of where your coming and going from and airline and TSA rules as I did and as soon as your off the plane run to baggage and get your stuff.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Calling the airport police to check your handgun license seems to be unique to NY (I've heard of it happening upstate, as well as in NYC) and NJ.
dcmdon
NES Member
Thats why I offered $50 to anyone who could find a single instance of an otherwise law abiding person having problems at BDL.
I'm confident nobody will find anything.
I love it how people come on this forum and participate in giving/getting advice. But then when someone backs them into a corner with logic, they drag out the old "Dont' trust what you hear on the Internet.
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Its all about your risk tolerance. If you want to refuse to exercise your rights within the law, that's your prerogative.
I think we can all agree on a few things. I'm going to run down these FACTS. And the OP can draw his own conclusions.
1) FOPA safe passage paragraph would protect you when traveling provided you abide by its restrictions.
2) The 2nd Circuit court of appeals has gutted FOPA in its circuit. (which includes CT, MA, NY, etc)
3) There is NO history of people being hassled at either Bradley or Logan.
We can argue about risk and what you would do and what I would do. But I dont' think any knowledgeable person would disagree with my 3 highlighted points above.
Don
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dcmdon
NES Member
2 years ago I flew from Bradley to Dallas while changing duty stations. I announced to the TSA women in baggage check in that I had a firearm and she politely asked me to open the locked hard case it was in where she then placed a card in it and had me lock the case back up and had me on my way. When I came back home I had 2 extra non-MA compliant locked cases
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There is no such thing as a "non-ma compliant locked case". If its locked and would be considered to be a "secure container", its MA compliant. Unless there is some case law I don't know about. Rob Boudrie?? Len???
Also, don't forget that unless a rifle or shotgun is considered to be "large capacity" there is NO legal requirement to case it. Also, there is no legal requirement to case unloaded handguns. Per the law, you could drive down the road with revolvers and tube fed shotguns strewn about the car and be in full compliance with 131c. (see link)
Its not wise. But its legal.
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131c
Don
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When I flew back from Alaska, if you DIDN'T check in a firearm, you were searched over again. LOL
Rome
Rome
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MA approval is required for cases/locks that are required to be sold with handguns and large capacity long guns.
There is no MA approval requires for cases/locks uses to meet the safe storage requirements.
Yes, but you would risk being charged with not having the unsecured firearms in your direct control.
