Fitchurg -- Police: City man had dozens of guns

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What's "large capacity ammunition"?

http://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/local/ci_7277314

Police: City man had dozens of guns
By Damien Fisher
Sentinel & Enterprise
Article Launched:10/25/2007 10:01:06 AM EDT

FITCHBURG -- A Mt. Carmel Street man who kept close to 40 guns, more than a dozen bayonets and a live grenade in his house is free on personal recognizance bail after his arraignment Tuesday.

Alan Ingel, 44, of 19 Mt. Carmel St., is charged with improperly storing large capacity ammunition with a minor in the house and possession of a bomb.

The discovery of the grenade forced police to evacuate the neighborhood in September, while the state police bomb squad responded, according to court records.

Police originally went to Ingel's home on Sept. 5 for a report of a mental health problem, according to the affidavit filed in Fitchburg District Court by Officer Stanley Young.

Ingel's family gave police permission to search the home, according to Young. During the search, officers found 27 rifles, including several collector's guns, 10 hand guns, 13 bayonets, a machete, a bullet-proof vest and four military canisters full of various ammunition, according to Young.

Ingel does his own re-loading of ammunition and police confiscated gunpowder, primers and casings, according to Young. Police also found some .50-caliber ammunition in the house, Young wrote.

During the search, one officer found two hand grenades in a drawer, one with the pin still intact, Young wrote.

Though the grenades were bored out at the bottom, Young knew they could still be dangerous, he wrote.

"I had knowledge from my military training that sometimes the grenade is bored out but the TNT charge in the top remained," Young wrote.

After evacuating the house and surrounding homes within 100 yards, the state police bomb squad arrived to handle the grenade. An X-ray of the grenade showed it still had the TNT top charge, Young wrote.

The grenade, the .50-caliber ammunition and the gunpowder were all taken to the firing range on Airport Road and detonated, Young wrote.

Police also confiscated Ingel's FID card and are storing his weapons collection. Young wrote it took him a day and a half to catalogue the entire collection.

 

[TOM-P]

wow, scary.... dummie granades.. Is a top charge even a real thing?

 

[massnee]

whoever young is...he is a nut case...

"Though the grenades were bored out at the bottom, Young knew they could still be dangerous, he wrote.

"I had knowledge from my military training that sometimes the grenade is bored out but the TNT charge in the top remained," Young wrote."

 

[drgrant]

I have this very sinking feeling that I might actually know who this
guy is..... course I don't know him well enough to say whether
or not the charge is warranted. From my limited interactions
with him, he seems like kind of an odd duck, but he never struck me
as being malicious.

This charge of "improperly storing high capacity ammunition"
seems pretty vague to me. I don't know what to make of
the "grenades". Of course I'm sure its not going to help his case
if the police have destroyed the evidence.

It bewilders me though why they would destroy other things which
are otherwise legal to possess, such as the powder and ammo.

-Mike

 

[Underwhere]

so....what did he do wrong?

 

[sieveboy]

This is pretty scary. I'd like to know what the real charge is, as the reporter obviously fouled it up...

 

[Twigg]

.I had knowledge from my military training...
<snip>
..Though the grenades were bored out at the bottom, Young knew they could still be dangerous...
<snip>
An X-ray of the grenade showed it still had the TNT top charge, Young wrote.

Dollars to doughnuts it ain't "TNT" and Officer Stanley Young is a genuine doofus who got his "Military training" by reading comic books.

 

[FalArAk]

Why did they originally search his house ? Why destroy the .50 cal ammo ? What's his screename on NES ? Damn,no wonder the rest of the Untied States laughs at us.

 

[Martlet]

wow, scary.... dummie granades.. Is a top charge even a real thing?

Most likely, from the physical description, it was a training grenade. They are just hollow pieces of metal, and you screw in the spoon/pin device. They just make a loud pop. Go to an Army base on the 4th of July. They're tossing them all over, without the "grenade" part.

 

[Jose]

So, is that par for the course in the Kingdom Of Deval?

Every time cops come to a house and find firearms, legal or not, they just help themselves and take it all?

How do you guys tolerate this shit? Sure, cops anywhere can pull that stunt. The difference is what the courts will do to them after you are through.

 

[LoginName]

<District attorney> So officer Young, exactly what kind of military training did you have? </District attorney>

<Officer Young> ARRRRMMEEE TRAINING, SIR!!! </Officer Young>

 

[Kar98 Sniper]

Sounds like the guy probably has an LTC.

I noticed there was no unlawful possession of a firearm charge.

 

[Admin]

Most likely, from the physical description, it was a training grenade. They are just hollow pieces of metal, and you screw in the spoon/pin device. They just make a loud pop. Go to an Army base on the 4th of July. They're tossing them all over, without the "grenade" part.

+1 The explosive device is about as powerful as 4 blackcats..

 

[Lugnut]

No idea what the guy did but it seems real obvious the police went waaaay over board IMO. What's wrong with .50 cal ammo??? And powder and primers?? I have to wonder if something else is going on... other than the buffoon reporter being an idiot.

 

[LoginName]

What I'd like to know is where did the "report of a mental health problem" originate from?

His physician?

A relative or family member?

A neighbor?

Once the cops got the call, he was screwed because of the licensing and registration laws in this state.

 

[Garys]

If they destroyed the 50 caliber ammunition, didn't they destroy the evidence of his "crime". The grenade doesn't seem like the only dummy in this case.

Gary

 

[Chris]

We're not paranoid, they ARE out to get us.

 

[Pilgrim]

You mean I might hurt my teddy bear!?!?!?!

 

[9000S]

Well thats it for me guys... I just give up. Who's down for a revolution anyone? Bueller Bueller buellrer?

 

[bpm990d]

Personal recog. Sounds like a real criminal.

He is going to get his ass handed to him on the storage though. Probably get a big fine and his permit pulled and will have to move out of state to keep his guns.

B

 

[jacobtowne]

'What's "large capacity ammunition"?'
The result of ignorance.

JT

 

[9000S]

'What's "large capacity ammunition"?'
The result of ignorance.

JT

I believe thats poor grammar... and floating clause looking for a home?

 

[matt1956]

did I miss something???

where in the law does it require you LOCK UP ammunition and ammo components?

Why did the PD have ANY right to search the home if all the weapons were legal?

this is just getting out of f***ing control

 

[Garys]

did I miss something???

where in the law does it require you LOCK UP ammunition and ammo components?

Why did the PD have ANY right to search the home if all the weapons were legal?

this is just getting out of f***ing control

There's a thread here, maybe more than one, on ammo storage. As I recall, the locked storage requirement is from the State Fire Marshall, not a matter of law.

Gary

 

[matt1956]

There's a thread here, maybe more than one, on ammo storage. As I recall, the locked storage requirement is from the State Fire Marshall, not a matter of law.

Gary

right, so he deserves a $$ fine from the state fire marshal for improper storage and that is about it from what I see.

 

[Garys]

right, so he deserves a $$ fine from the state fire marshal for improper storage and that is about it from what I see.

I pretty much agree, but you know it won't end there. I wonder what got the interest of the police in the first place?

Gary

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Why did the PD have ANY right to search the home if all the weapons were legal?

The report states that a family member granted consent.

 

[JonJ]

Why did the PD have ANY right to search the home if all the weapons were legal?

Police originally went to Ingel's home on Sept. 5 for a report of a mental health problem, according to the affidavit filed in Fitchburg District Court by Officer Stanley Young.

Ingel's family gave police permission to search the home, according to Young. During the search, officers found 27 rifles, including several collector's guns, 10 hand guns, 13 bayonets, a machete, a bullet-proof vest and four military canisters full of various ammunition, according to Young.

The question then becomes, what standing did the family have to give permission to search? A motions hearing could or would decide this.
It could be that a family member filed for a Section 35 or Doctor filed a Section 12.

 

[jwilson]

I live in Fitchburg and I just heard of this!

 

[crak]