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First Over Under Shotgun?

over looked O/U

The older Charles Daly shotguns are a good buy. Also the Miroku line.
SKB is another one, these seem to have a lesser resale value but are good guns. Get friendly with the Skeet crowd and TRY some guns. I shot Trap for 3 years with a 870 express. Tried every gun that someone would lend me. I found the Citori's to just come to me. I saved for a year. Found a great Browning Ultra XT with a very nice Americase at Kittery trading post for 1500.00. Dont rule out 20g also. Gun fit is your main concern. I dont know who makes Charles Daly shotguns for them, I would guess greek manufacture??? Also charles Daly has a life time repair claim? I prefer brownings. If you like utilitarian Russian guns Baikals are pretty stought. Repair and parts a a major consideration. Valmet are another good gun found at a good price. Ejector breakage is common and sometimes tough to find parts

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=9935_13769_13775
 
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Ruger Red Label or Browning Citori are unbeatable. Used ones can be found for under a grand and will still give you decades of service.
I have an older Red Label with thousands of round thru it and it still locks up tighter than Fort Knox. The wood and blue on the early guns are excellent.
 
Here is info on three used shotguns I bought before. All within past 10 years as I mentioned.

First, Beretta 682SX, this is single selectable trigger, 30" barrel we use for trap, is a trap gun, about $1,500. Was made in 90's.

Browning Citori, 32" barrel, is a trap gun, $850. Was made in 80's.

Ruger Red Label, 26" barrel, field gun that could be used for skeet, around $900. Was made in the 90's.

Dana
 
I'm not sure what your budget is, but on the lower end of the spectrum, ($300-800.00), I have been looking at these at Dicks Sporting Goods, (where I work part time):

Remington Spartan: Nice gun, fit and finish is average, but it's made in Russia and I don't really like pumping money into their economy if I can help it. Price is right at about $350.00

Stoeger STF 3000: Fit and finish is above average. Sometimes a bear to disassemble/reassemble, comes with a complete set of external choke tubes, looks nicer than the price, needs a couple of boxes through it to properly use the single trigger. Price is right at about $450. Customer feedback has been completely positive. For the money, it's hard to beat this package - it's complete and ready to go.

Savage: Beautifully finished. Has the look more of a field gun than a skeet gun, (but who cares). Action/trigger seems smooth. Some of the nicest wood I've seen on a shotgun at that price. Customer feedback has been superb. Price is about $500.00

Benelli Diamond. First, it's not a Benelli - it's a Franchi. That being said - it's a beautiful, beautiful gun. I don't know what magic elves Franchi employes to make their barrel steel, finish the barrels/receiver and find the wood for the stocks, but it's really a nice looking gun. People who have purchased them, love them....One customer who purchased one, bought it for his son and liked it as much as his Beretta. Price $799.00
 
lanber makes a good O/U. Also, I have shot skeet for 5+ years and I use a pump. I also have a o/u but a good pump is fun to shoot.
 
I recently bought a used (but literally like-new) Beretta 686 White Onyx O/U. Its a nice gun, and I got it for $1500 w/ cash discount. I'm not O/U expert, but by my standards, its as nice an O/U as I'll ever want for anything.
 
mac1911 said:
The older Charles Daly shotguns are a good buy. Also the Miroku line.
Click to expand...

+1, the Daly O/Us from back when Miroku was making them are among the best values out there in used shotguns. (Miroku is the current manufacturer of Browning Citoris). You don't want to consider the Italian or Spanish Dalys, just the Miroku ones - the B.C. Miroku name is clearly stamped. You may also run into shotguns produced only under the Miroku name, sometimes stamped "My Luck," whatever that's supposed to mean. I have one each of the Miroku Dalys in the four skeet gauges, and they are really a delight - very well balanced, light, and fast-handling dependable guns, with nice hand-cut engraving. They often have a few up at KTP for well less than $1K (though not at the moment - just one Italian model and one that's maybe a Miroku, they don't say).
 
MassMark said:
Stoeger STF 3000: Fit and finish is above average. Sometimes a bear to disassemble/reassemble, comes with a complete set of external choke tubes, looks nicer than the price, needs a couple of boxes through it to properly use the single trigger. Price is right at about $450. Customer feedback has been completely positive. For the money, it's hard to beat this package - it's complete and ready to go.
Click to expand...

Nooooo. i had a Stoeger O/U a few years back and all I can say is DON'T! Most of what you say is true, wow did that thing handle beautifully for me, and Benelli was great with service issues. Unfortunately, I know Benelli was good because in the months I had the gun it went back to the factory 3 times and was replaced with a brand new gun before I gave up and demanded a refund. Neither of the Stoegers would go bang - some sort of firing pin issue. They were never forthcoming about the issue, but I couldn't shoot a round of trap without the gun failing.
 
If you are going to buy ANY shotgun under $1000 for clay sports, do yourself a HUGE favor and buy a Remington 1100.
 
All great guns have been offered, but I would like to suggest a Lanber. Lanber are like tanks, I own two, one in 20 and another in 12. I think you can pick them up for around $700 or less. I bought my 12ga. for just over $500 a few years back.
 
I see some guns sold as hunting guns and some guns sold as competition guns. The specs look nearly identical, though. What's to choose one vs. another?

In particular, since there are a bunch of Lanber fans here: the 2087 "Hunter", the 2097 "Sporting", and the 2097 "Sporting Lux" all have the same set of barrel length choices and the same stock profile. Actually, except for the engravings, they look identical. What gives? If I buy a 2087 but mostly just shoot clays will I be forever kicking myself for not dropping the extra $100 for the 2097?

Thanks for everyone who's posted above, too. This has been a really informative thread.
 
vellnueve said:
Should be able to find a Beretta/Browning/Ruger for under 1K if you look hard enough.
Click to expand...

vellnueve said:
Buy once, cry once. Ruger Red Label, Browning Citori, or a entry-level Beretta.
Click to expand...

I think for skeet or trap you want one of these brands.

I watched GunBroker for maybe 9 months and picked up a field grade Citori for $850. This gun has the newer invector plus choke tubes. Everything local at this price point was older with fixed chokes. 90% of the auctions are from dealers and overpriced. Don't even bid if it has a reserve.

It is a bit riskier with a new seller but I think most people are honest. Shipping and FFL fees on both ends make it hard to get a GREAT deal but what you want will show up eventually.

Bill
 
This might be off topic, and stupid, but why wouldn't one shoot trap with a 300$ pump Mossberg or Remington? Does it really make that much of a difference? It goes boom, and the pellets fly out... no? Does a 1000$ over/under have better pattern? Better balance? Better fit? Enough to spend the extra money?
 
Good question.

First question was on selectiing an O/U, lower price, for a skeet gun.

For trap, can use many guns. Lower priced are field guns, need to hold birds tight.

Better guns can be tailored for trap where more of shot pattern goes up with the rising birds.

Also get better triggers, second bead, customizable setup, longer barrels, smoother opening and closing, and more. Lower priced O/Us may not auto eject the empties.

Some people stay with field pumps, autoloaders, O/Us. Some rarely still use side by sides. Can get trap pumps too. Guns for trap are more tailored, and not as likely to be used for something else. Can even get trap guns where you don't have to touch the safety each time you open and close an O/U.

Trap experts can be more specific.

Dana
 
Skeeter said:
I recently started shooting skeet and I LOVE it! I'm using a Remington 870 but I want to buy an over under. I don't have thousands to spend...any suggestions on a good shotgun at a reasonable price?
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Buy what fits you best. Clays is all about the gun pointing where you are looking. You should be concentrating on the clay and not on the sights etc. If you want send me a PM if you are in the Woburn area, come by and shoot some clays at the MRA on a Sunday AM. The club has a few Stoegers (low end) and you can try my Cynergy if you like. There are tons of good folks there and I have never seen someone turn down a request to try a gun.

I agree with the folks who suggest buy a B-gun (Browning, Beretta, I also include Ruger essentially something in the 1-2K$ area). They are about as entry level as you can get for a lifetime gun. Also look for screw in chokes. Early guns have fixed chokes and it is nice to be able to change them. CDNN has good prices regularly on Browning shotguns (new sub-1500). I also know that if you find something that you like and fits you Carl @ Four Seasons can order it for you.

I would stay away form the cheaper offerings. I know some people have had good luck with their Mossbergs etc. Mossberg also said they fixed the problems but who knows. I wish the $ I spent on mine went to a good used B-gun rather than the SR as I would still be shooting that. After 6 months and failures every 400 shots or so I finally gave up on it and took a +300$ loss and was happy about it (less than 1500 shots through the gun). I think for the $ there are better offerings out there. If you are going to go cheap, go cheap, and buy a Stoeger. Of the 5-6 Mossbergs (rarely seen or fired) I personally know about not one has not had problems. Of the 6-10 Stoegers, (seen all the time and probably see about 1-200 rounds a week, club gun never being cleaned) all have worked flawlessly. Not as nice to look at but the important thing is it goes bang.

Talk to the folks you shoot with and ask to borrow guns most will offer, or say yes, if they know you are in the market.

Good luck in your search.
 
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At my club this week I've been able to shoot the Ruger Red Label, a custom build Ruger, Stoeger, and a Beretta Onyx. I know the Onyx is a base model, entry gun but I loved it. I think Beretta is the gun for me. I like a 20 gauge with a 28" barrel. Jaymc, thanks for the advice about the older models that don't let you screw in chokes...I wouldn't want that. Looks like I'll be shopping for a Beretta...
 
The roland, There is no reason you can not shoot trap/skeet with a 300 mossy/Rem pump. What comes into play is.

Pump guns are not ideal for the "pairs" in trap,skeet,clays. Yes it can be done just not a easy as a O/U or semi.

field guns vs sport specific. Really not a field vs comp issue but a "gun fit" issue
If you have a gun that doesnt fit you well. After a good day of competitive shooting you will know it. Bruised cheek, sore shoulder pocket, on and on. Each guns "specs" will have a impact on gun fit.

Does all this matter. For the every now and again, get ready for hunting season shooter. not so much. Going to be shooting several hundred shots during competitve shoots, maybe even several thousand at a large event like the Grand trap shoot. Yes, especially when the winner is decided by 1 shot.

I started with my favorite shotgun 870 exspress modified choke. I shot this gun for 3 years, winning club leagues and progressing through the different classes. Then I started learning about gun fit. Consistancy and later comfort.

I borrowed every gun I could get my hand on. I ended up with a Browning citori ultra xt.
Which I later added a precision fit stock. Which seems to have endless adjustments

For what it is worth, I have seen every mossburg go through some low shot count failures.
older 870s seem to be better made than newer ones
older 1100 wingmaster or trap models are by my eyes the best bang for the buck, easily modified for any shooting for relative short money.
1k-2.5k brownings,beretta,skb, O/U

to each his own.
 
Nicole said:
Nooooo. i had a Stoeger O/U a few years back and all I can say is DON'T! Most of what you say is true, wow did that thing handle beautifully for me, and Benelli was great with service issues. Unfortunately, I know Benelli was good because in the months I had the gun it went back to the factory 3 times and was replaced with a brand new gun before I gave up and demanded a refund. Neither of the Stoegers would go bang - some sort of firing pin issue. They were never forthcoming about the issue, but I couldn't shoot a round of trap without the gun failing.
Click to expand...

Well gee, you must be unlucky. I managed TWO rounds of trap before my Benelli STF 3000 (Dick's Stoeger Condor version) broke - extractor failed. It's heading back next week.
 
I've got red label's in 12,20, and 28......excellent guns and probably can be found gently used under 1000. You get what you pay for here....the turkish/italian guns won't have the wood to metal fit and quality of Ruger/Browning/Beretta.

I bought mine to hand down from generation to generation, noting that a good american made over and under will only go up in price over the years, and there's a good chance they may get phased out because production costs get too high.....making them worth more in the long run. It may be a little to pay now, but it's more of an investment than buying a turkish gun that will only go down in value.
 
Holy old thread resurrection, Batman!

I'm looking to buy my 1st O/U, and love anything made by Ruger, so obviously am looking at the Red Label. This is the "new" Red Label of course and not the old Red Labels. Seems about 1/2 the internet (or more) says they're anything from "OK" to "terrible", and 1/2 the internet (or less) says they're anything from "OK" to "awesome".

Also, I have been invited to try some trap shooting. It looks like a hell of a lot of fun. I am confused (or rather, would like to be educated) on why some folks (online) say the Ruger Red Labels aren't necessarily appropriate for this. Can I ask the NES Braintrust to comment on the "new" Red Labels, and to give its insight on the Red Label being used for trap shooting? Thank you kindly.
 
I have an older though not that old 26" Red Label. Need to read more on the new and look at one. I can tell you I have used less expensive and more expensive ones in trap.

Some in trap use trap models that have 30" barrels or longer, they shoot slightly more pellets above than below the line of sight. Some are heavier. Field models shoot flatter. Trap guns may not have a safety too. But does not mean a field gun cannot be used.

One of the best shooters at my last club shot only a Red Label.
 
Wow, I posted that a long time ago... glad my old thread might help you out. I've shot a few old Red Labels and they were all nice shotguns. I have not held or fired the new model. All I can say is try to handle and fire both. What someone will undoubtedly chime in though (so it might as well be me) is that with a sporting shotgun for skeet, trap or general clays you want a gun that really fits you. Although you might love Ruger, you might find another gun just fits and aims better for you. Some of the best advice I got when deciding on an O/U was shoot as many different guns as possible before sinking a bunch of money into a gun that isn't quite right for you. I shot everybody's shotgun at my club that offered and I'm glad I did.

As for your trap question, see DCunniff's response. It's a flatter shooting shotgun so it's not as "ideal" for trap but you can certainly shoot trap with a Red Label.
 
In my opinion, Ruger never dedicated themselves to making a legitimate clay target gun.

My preference is for a raised ramped rib (makes the gun shoot high for rising targets), a parallel comb (maintains decent POI even if you shift forward or back a bit), and a bit more weight in the gun (softens perceived recoil and smooths out your swing)

The Red Labels really don't have that.

They are a pretty decent O/U for the money but they are a solid step down from most "B" guns (Brownings, Beretta's, Blasers)

Try, try, try, before you buy .................. then buy once, and cry once.
 
The new ruger uses the old red labels original stock dimensions which had a very low comb. I used an old model red label for a target gun back in the day and it kicked the crap out of my face. It's a field grade gun first and foremost. Sure it fits some people but American skeet and trap rules allow you call with a mounted gun, hence why a true target gun for trap and skeet has a high comb, American trap and skeet that is. A sporting clay gun is more of a field gun, you start with a low gun. I agree with you an o/u is the way to go but searching for a new gun is harder than you'd think. A lot of people go for the good looking gun that catches their eye but it doesn't fit them properly. Fit is the key here if you want to get serious. If you shoot the odd, casual round every once in a while, I guess it really doesn't matter, shoot the gun you hunt with. When selecting a gun, head to the local club that has a regular contingent and ask questions and shoot some different guns. I've yet met a trap or skeet shooter who won't let anyone interested shoot their gun for a few rounds. An o/u is a big investment, the choice needs to be close to right as possible he first time. And spend a few extra dollars on your gun to buy right, you'll have it a lifetime.
 

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