First gun / CCW recommendations?

[jbos6]

Alright, after years of wrangling with my wife, I've finally freed up some coin to take the plunge and make that first gun purchase. I've been doing a *lot* of research lately, and have looked through these forums to try to ensure I'm not asking a regularly-asked question (and I apologize if I am). I've been trying to narrow down the field, and here's some quick background. I shoot occasionally (at least monthly or every other month, if possible) with a friend at MRA. For handguns, he has a couple of Glock 23's in .40, a PPKS in .380, a Performance Center 1911 and a regular S&W (I believe) 1911. For whatever reason, I've never shot very well with the Glock, and the PPKS is far too small for my big hands. I thought that perhaps I just wasn't a very good shot, but I recently tried a CZ75 (big fat handle on that one!) and did well, and did very well with both 1911's. Fine, one of the 1911's was a PC, so that was more the gun than me, I get it. I'm leaning towards a single-stack for better concealment, though I'm a bigger guy so I've got some room to hide a pistol. *grin* I like the .40 round (NOT trying to start an argument about that round!!) and like that I can swap out with my friend's Glocks if need be. However, I did real well with the 1911, so I'll trade my taste for .40 for my accuracy with a 1911. I do intend to get to a store (probably Four Seasons) to get my hands on these, but in the research I've done, these are the pistols I'm leaning towards. I'm trying to stay at or below $700 or $750, but there might be some wiggle room. I would greatly appreciate your input! Para Ordnance - Warthog? LTC? Carry? CCW? Sig P239 (in .40) Walther PPS (in .40) S&W - M&P (in .40)? Sigma (in .40)?

 

[Aube]

It really sounds like you already made up your mind.

The S&W 1911 is a great gun. King of big, but if you feel comfortable carrying it, all the power to you.

 

[jbos6]

That's my concern, that a full-size 1911 would really be too tough to conceal. I spend most of my workday seated, so it needs to be comfortable. I *really really* like the look of the Warthog and it meets some of my criteria (good personal defense round and 1911 style), though I'm of course not about to buy a gun based on looks! (Additionally, I've heard some concerns about Para's QA recently.)

 

[Jose]

I'll be honest with you. A full size semi auto's grip is the hardest to conceal when seated. A compact semi auto is better in that sense, and a round butt revolver is king when it comes to concealment.

 

[qmmo]

Consider a Sig P220 - its .45 ACP, single stack, has a decocker (DA on first rd., SA after that), internal safeties and is available with tritium night sights. With an alloy frame it is lighter than a 1911. Plus it has the same form factor as a Sig P226 (you can use the same holsters).

 

[dwarven1]

I've been trying to narrow down the field

Here we go again...

Jbos6, first off, welcome to NES, and congrats on your decision to take responsibility for your own safety. It's not a small decision, either.

Now... as to WHAT you should carry... this is ENTIRELY up to you. You should factor in what you're comfortable shooting, what you can conceal well, what you shoot WELL, and what you can afford. (at $700-750, Performance Center guns are right out... even as nice as they are).

My advice would be for you to try as many different guns as you can. Visit public ranges like Bob's Tactical (Salisbury, MA), S&W's range (Springfield, MA) and Manchester Firing Line (Manchester, NH) and renting some different guns to try them out.

Everyone is different, and some like Glocks, some like 1911s, some like wheelguns. You just need to find what your preference is.

Good hunting!

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Here we go again...

Jbos6, first off, welcome to NES, and congrats on your decision to take responsibility for your own safety. It's not a small decision, either.

Now... as to WHAT you should carry... this is ENTIRELY up to you. You should factor in what you're comfortable shooting, what you can conceal well, what you shoot WELL, and what you can afford. (at $700-750, Performance Center guns are right out... even as nice as they are).

My advice would be for you to try as many different guns as you can. Visit public ranges like Bob's Tactical (Salisbury, MA), S&W's range (Springfield, MA) and Manchester Firing Line (Manchester, NH) and renting some different guns to try them out.

Everyone is different, and some like Glocks, some like 1911s, some like wheelguns. You just need to find what your preference is.

Good hunting!

Dont forget American Firearms School in North Attleboro for gun renting as well.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

To the OP: See my avatar for the perfect carry gun (I am waiting for people to come out of the woodwork, heheheh)

 

[oneswithfunes]

I say ditch the Sigma. The quality will leave you wanting more. You may not be happy with the Para after the smith 1911's and I have a soft spot for the 239 but you may find it a bit small for you hands if you have trouble with the ppk/s. The Sig 220 or 226 are good ideas but might be a little large to carry depending on your clothing and how large you are.

 

[MontyTJ02]

M&P40c?

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Consider a Sig P220 - its .45 ACP, single stack, has a decocker (DA on first rd., SA after that), internal safeties and is available with tritium night sights. With an alloy frame it is lighter than a 1911. Plus it has the same form factor as a Sig P226 (you can use the same holsters).

I will second that, the P220 is my currect CCW. It is a big heavy, but a Cross Breed holster makes it very comfortable. After going through about 15-20 different holsters this really did the trick. If you go for it, I would suggest the combat cut. The regular one doesn't let you get a good high grip on the grip.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Here we go again...

Jbos6, first off, welcome to NES, and congrats on your decision to take responsibility for your own safety. It's not a small decision, either.

Now... as to WHAT you should carry... this is ENTIRELY up to you. You should factor in what you're comfortable shooting, what you can conceal well, what you shoot WELL, and what you can afford. (at $700-750, Performance Center guns are right out... even as nice as they are).

My advice would be for you to try as many different guns as you can. Visit public ranges like Bob's Tactical (Salisbury, MA), S&W's range (Springfield, MA) and Manchester Firing Line (Manchester, NH) and renting some different guns to try them out.

Everyone is different, and some like Glocks, some like 1911s, some like wheelguns. You just need to find what your preference is.

Good hunting!

Good point.....I'll temper my previous post with his advice. Not everyone is comfortable shooting a .45 ACP. However, if you are comfortable with the caliber....P220 is a good choice. So much easier to clean than a 1911 (still love my Colt though)

 

[jbos6]

@dwarven1: Time (and money to spend on rentals) is limited ... I'm the father of two, have a day job and am a musician, so free time is at a real premium! Thus, I'm trying to narrow my choices down and then rent my couple remaining choices. The 1911 frame was eye-opening for me to shoot, so I keep coming back to those in my travels, and have even looked at that frame chambered in .40. (Yes, I've heard the arguments about the frame not being right for that round. Of course, the 1911 frame I've read was designed from the ground up around the 9mm and .40 is the Springfield Armory EMP. not MA-compliant. I wanna move to NH.)

@bostonasphalt2: I like the Glocks on paper (and of course their reputation), I just can't shoot 'em worth a darn. Well, not the 23, anyway, and my take is that the different Glocks will shoot somewhat similarly.

@oneswithfunes: I was considering the Sigma when I thought my budget was much lower, so I just kept it in the mix this time around, though my now-more-than-doubled budget brings much better guns into play. Gotta find out tomorrow if my friend's non-PC 1911 was a S&W (I'm guessing it is).

I do like the fact that noone has rejected any of the options completely (as in "Hey, idiot, you're considering *that* one?") Means I'm on the right track, at least! I think that, ultimately, that's the kind of input I'm looking for ... reasons to knock one gun or another off the list. (Alternatively, if someone has a very good reason, I'm open to adding guns to the list, as well!)

 

[joehaus]

When I sold my full size 220 I replaced it with the S&W 1911PD with the scandium frame. The 1911 conceals much easier then the 220. The weight is about the same. The 1911 is thinner but a tad longer. Obviously the 1911 is harder to clean.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

When I sold my full size 220 I replaced it with the S&W 1911PD with the scandium frame. The 1911 conceals much easier then the 220. The weight is about the same. The 1911 is thinner but a tad longer. Obviously the 1911 is harder to clean.

Wow....you ponied up some coin for that thing I'm guessing? I saw the scandium one a few months ago and it was like $1400

 

[joehaus]

New it was 950.00. The 220 Stainless and night sights was 825 or around that.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

New it was 950.00. The 220 Stainless and night sights was 825 or around that.

Nice....from what I've seen, that was a steal!

 

[soloman02]

I LOVE my S&W 1911PD Commander. It is my carry gun and my HD gun. I'm thinking of either selling or trading my XD for a 9mm 1911 so I can practice more with recoil. If S&W came out with a 9mm 1911PD I'd be all over it.

Find the gun that fits your hand best with the most recoil that you can accurately fire. If that is a 9mm gun, fine, if it is a .380 so be it.

As the saying goes: "A .22lr in your pocket is better than a .45ACP at home."

It sounds like you like the 1911, even a full size 1911 can be concealed with the right holster. My 1911 has a 4 inch barrel and a full size grip. It conceals fine with the holster made for my XD if I position the holster at 3 o'clock. When I finally get a proper holster, it should disappear at 4 o'clock. Sitting will always be an issue with a 1911, just make sure you sit in a way that people cannot see that side and you won't have to worry about it.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

I LOVE my S&W 1911PD Commander. It is my carry gun and my HD gun. I'm thinking of either selling or trading my XD for a 9mm 1911 so I can practice more with recoil. If S&W came out with a 9mm 1911PD I'd be all over it.

Find the gun that fits your hand best with the most recoil that you can accurately fire. If that is a 9mm gun, fine, if it is a .380 so be it.

It sounds like you like the 1911, even a full size 1911 can be concealed with the right holster. My 1911 has a 4 inch barrel and a full size grip. It conceals fine with the holster made for my XD if I position the holster at 3 o'clock. When I finally get a proper holster, it should disappear. Sitting will always be an issue with a 1911, just make sure you sit in a way that people cannot see that side and you won't have to worry about it.

Oh, what XD do you have and are you in MA? I might be interested in buying it.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

I LOVE my S&W 1911PD Commander. It is my carry gun and my HD gun. I'm thinking of either selling or trading my XD for a 9mm 1911 so I can practice more with recoil. If S&W came out with a 9mm 1911PD I'd be all over it.

Find the gun that fits your hand best with the most recoil that you can accurately fire. If that is a 9mm gun, fine, if it is a .380 so be it.

As the saying goes: "A .22lr in your pocket is better than a .45ACP at home."

It sounds like you like the 1911, even a full size 1911 can be concealed with the right holster. My 1911 has a 4 inch barrel and a full size grip. It conceals fine with the holster made for my XD if I position the holster at 3 o'clock. When I finally get a proper holster, it should disappear at 4 o'clock. Sitting will always be an issue with a 1911, just make sure you sit in a way that people cannot see that side and you won't have to worry about it.

Two points....first, check out the Sig P220 if you are okay with the recoil. It's just slightly larger than the 1911, but much easier to clean if you will be firing it alot. Second, on the holster, go to crossbreedholsters.com. I've been through many and that thing is VERY comfortable. Depending on your body type, you can even tuck in your shirt and nobody can tell. Now it's ugly as hell, but it's a IWB, so that doesn't really matter. After going through so many, I always sing their praises because I wish someone had told me about them sooner. Could have saved a lot of coin.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

I LOVE my S&W 1911PD Commander. It is my carry gun and my HD gun. I'm thinking of either selling or trading my XD for a 9mm 1911 so I can practice more with recoil. If S&W came out with a 9mm 1911PD I'd be all over it.

Find the gun that fits your hand best with the most recoil that you can accurately fire. If that is a 9mm gun, fine, if it is a .380 so be it.

As the saying goes: "A .22lr in your pocket is better than a .45ACP at home."

It sounds like you like the 1911, even a full size 1911 can be concealed with the right holster. My 1911 has a 4 inch barrel and a full size grip. It conceals fine with the holster made for my XD if I position the holster at 3 o'clock. When I finally get a proper holster, it should disappear at 4 o'clock. Sitting will always be an issue with a 1911, just make sure you sit in a way that people cannot see that side and you won't have to worry about it.

Oops...my bad...just notice you are in NH...should have looked first.

 

[CRSIII]

Skinny men carry a 1911 gov. mod!

(and curvy girls do too!)

 

[soloman02]

Two points....first, check out the Sig P220 if you are okay with the recoil. It's just slightly larger than the 1911, but much easier to clean if you will be firing it alot. Second, on the holster, go to crossbreedholsters.com. I've been through many and that thing is VERY comfortable. Depending on your body type, you can even tuck in your shirt and nobody can tell. Now it's ugly as hell, but it's a IWB, so that doesn't really matter. After going through so many, I always sing their praises because I wish someone had told me about them sooner. Could have saved a lot of coin.

The reason I went to a 1911 for both HD and CCW is because I only have to practice with one trigger type. I think a SIG 220 is SA, but the trigger will still be different from a 1911. I went to the 1911 platform to standardize. That and I get all nostalgic and warm inside knowing I'm using a design that was used by hundreds of thousands of US soldiers for over 60 years. I don't mind cleaning a 1911, though my XD is super easy to clean.

I live in NH so no go there. I'd sell my Ruger as well but it was a gift from my dad (and was my first gun) so it has sentimental value.

To the OP: Since you don't have much money to build a collection right now, I would select a gun that you can use for both HD and CCW. 1911's, Glocks, SIG's and the S&W M&P's all allow this as the trigger and operation of the guns will be the same regardless of caliber. So you can get a 45 for HD and CCW and a 9mm for cheaper practice. For the 1911 and the SIG's (not sure for the M&P and the Glocks), you can get a 22lr conversion to allow you to practice for real cheap.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Skinny men carry a 1911 gov. mod!

(and curvy girls do too!)

I love my Colt 1911. The problem is two fold.....one, it is a pain in the ass to clean....two...it is a collector's piece, so I really can't fire it. It's a 1981 Series 70 American Combat Companion (only 150 of these type were made). Goverment model, with the cherry grips and U.S. insignia....beautiful engraving. One side of the slide has all of the military service emblems. The other side of the side is a mural depicting all of the wars in which it was used. It is a commemerative that signifies 70 years at the side of U.S. service men. I want to shoot it, but can't bring myself to it (other than the one time I shot it to make sure it worked).

 

[Radio]

Glock G30 in .45

 

[joehaus]

I think a SIG 220 is SA, but the trigger will still be different from a 1911.

The 220 is DA/SA. A good 10lb pull for the first shot then it's much lighter with a shortened trigger pull. Where as the 1911 is the same weight and travel each time. You need to carry it hammer back, safety on. As it's NOT OK to have the hammer down on a loaded chamber with the 1911(added for the OP in the event he wasn't aware).

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

The 220 is DA/SA. A good 10lb pull for the first shot then it's much lighter with a shortened trigger pull. Where as the 1911 is the same weight and travel each time. You need to carry it hammer back, safety on. As it's NOT OK to have the hammer down on a loaded chamber with the 1911(added for the OP in the event he wasn't aware).

Yes, but then you have to deal with the thumb safety. You can have work done to a P220 to reduce the first pull. They aren't sold that way, but you can have it modified to your heart's content after you buy it.

 

[joehaus]

Yes, but then you have to deal with the thumb safety. You can have work done to a P220 to reduce the first pull. They aren't sold that way, but you can have it modified to your heart's content after you buy it.

The safety is definitely a turn-off if you like non-external safety guns like Sigs, Glocks, etc. But I find one smooth motion of drawing and thumbing it off easy. Before I have my sight picture the safety is off. Not so much with the 92FS that is a bit awkward.

 

[dwarven1]

@dwarven1: Time (and money to spend on rentals) is limited ... I'm the father of two, have a day job and am a musician, so free time is at a real premium! Thus, I'm trying to narrow my choices down and then rent my couple remaining choices.

Oh, well... in that case!

My normal carry gun is a Kahr K9 - single stack 9mm with rubber grips. It conceals REAL well and I shoot it well. Some of that is practice, some of that is that it's just a well-built gun! At other times, I carry a SW1911 or a SW Model 19 w/a 2" bbl. Again, both of them I shoot very well. One other choice, which I've used for IDPA, is a ParaOrdnance P12 - Officer's Model-sized high-capacity 1911. All of which I'd recommend as they are all good, solid, reliable guns.

The SW1911 can be found used in shops in MA in the $6-800 range. New, they can be a tad pricey. Para can be had new (albeit with neutered mags) in MA. As for a 2" Mod 19... you're gonna have to hunt for that one. I just happened to luck into mine a few days after my birthday. (Hmm... maybe I oughta name it "My Precious"! ) The K9 - also lucked into it; found a NESer who let me try it out at an IDPA shoot and let me know when he was selling it.

I do like the fact that noone has rejected any of the options completely (as in "Hey, idiot, you're considering *that* one?") Means I'm on the right track, at least! I think that, ultimately, that's the kind of input I'm looking for ... reasons to knock one gun or another off the list.

OK... Hey, idiot, don't even think of a HiPoint, Lorcin, Raven, Jennings or Davis for serious self-defense. They all suck. Likewise, a Beretta 21A (it's a .22LR) is lots of fun to shoot, but again... wouldn't consider it for serious self-defense purposes.

Well, you did ask.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

For something small, I like my Walther P99c. Very small and light! The small handle makes it much easier to conceal and it still carries 10 in the mag. Although, given the choice, I still like to have a .45 on me.