dcmdon
NES Member
Is that the one with the two coil springs that cams overcenter so their force isn't applied to the sear?
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
First AR-15 Dilemma
- Thread starter SigSlinger508
- Start date
Is that the one with the two coil springs that cams overcenter so their force isn't applied to the sear?
dcmdon
NES Member
I like not having a forward assist. As a lefty, it lets me actually use an ambi charging handle. With a FA, and ambi charging handle is basically useless since the FA blocks easy access to the right side release. It also shaves a few ounces.
I'm not a soldier. I don't need to force a round into the chamber. If it fails to chamber, I just shuck it and put a new round in.
The reality is there are use cases where a FA is a benefit and there are use cases where using a FA can make things worse.
My reality is that I've never actually needed to use a FA and had it do anything but shove a stuck round harder into the chamber, requiring me to slam the butt of the rifle on the ground while pulling the charging handle back.
In one case it was a defective round.
In the other case (no pun intended) it was half a day into a carbine class. The gun was hot and dirty and I was using Wolf ammo. The chamber was gooey and all wolf ammo stuck in the chamber. When I switched to M193 Lake City after a quick swab of the chamber, it ran fine for the next 1 1/2 days.
In the other case, it was a handload that I had somehow screwed up, I don't think the case was resized. Racking the bolt carrier ejected the bad round and loaded a good round in in about a second.
Don
Last edited:
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
I don't get the point of the fa. Hey I have a jammed round lets get this round jammed some more.
My buddy used the fa and the round got stuck .
He grenades the rifle and broke his bcm charging handle in half .
ToddDubya
NES Member
Like Don says, I've only ever used a FA to jam defective ammo harder into the chamber, twice with range trip ending consequences. My main rifle now has no FA, dust cover or shell deflector and it works great (unless you're left handed). The only time I wished I had a FA was when I was checking my handload case length for fit and wanted to see how easy/hard it was to chamber a round.
If I was looking to buy an off-the-shelf AR the M&P Sport would probably be it.
Disclaimer: I'm not an operator
If I was looking to buy an off-the-shelf AR the M&P Sport would probably be it.
Disclaimer: I'm not an operator
dcmdon
NES Member
Dear All,
I'm looking for well made upper receivers without a FA.
If any of you have a Sport or similar AR and would like a receiver that will support a FA, just send me your used stripped upper and I will promptly send you a brand new Aeroprecision stripped upper.
This is no joke. All the decent uppers without a FA are $100.
Don
p.s. I'm not an Operator either. Not even on the Internet.
p.p.s. The one legitimate use I've seen for the FA is after a press check to confirm a round is in the chamber. I took a class at Academi once with a guy who insisted we check our chamber every time we dropped the bolt on a loaded mag. The easiest way to do with was to pull back the bolt a smidge until you saw the brass, then ease it forward and give the FA a wack.
Of course, he also told us that a perfectly acceptable way of also checking is to pull the mag and see if its feeding off the opposite side.
I'm looking for well made upper receivers without a FA.
If any of you have a Sport or similar AR and would like a receiver that will support a FA, just send me your used stripped upper and I will promptly send you a brand new Aeroprecision stripped upper.
This is no joke. All the decent uppers without a FA are $100.
Don
p.s. I'm not an Operator either. Not even on the Internet.
p.p.s. The one legitimate use I've seen for the FA is after a press check to confirm a round is in the chamber. I took a class at Academi once with a guy who insisted we check our chamber every time we dropped the bolt on a loaded mag. The easiest way to do with was to pull back the bolt a smidge until you saw the brass, then ease it forward and give the FA a wack.
Of course, he also told us that a perfectly acceptable way of also checking is to pull the mag and see if its feeding off the opposite side.
Last edited:
ToddDubya
NES Member
Aero has them for $65 (blems) or $85 (non-blems).
1. Buy the S&W bc it is great for a first AR and you get CS & a warranty for a very well priced rifle. It will take you years to outgrow that rifle and when you do the knowledge to build your own will have been acquired with experience not reading internet advice and how-to's.
2. Those BUIS will easily shoot out to 200 yards minute-of-man for any range purpose you may have. The red dot is useful if you are under 100 yards and engaging targets at speed. I would suggest one of the 1-4x scopes that may be had in the $1-200 range that would allow you to shoot at speed and then cluster some groups at 100 yards.
IMHO Red Dots are great for shooting under 100 yards while moving. I don't see the attraction to using a red dot from a bench rest. The irons are perfectly fine and probably more accurate for that purpose.
Oh, and OP: You can leave the Nut n Fancy acronyms at home. They may sound great in a video but...
2. Those BUIS will easily shoot out to 200 yards minute-of-man for any range purpose you may have. The red dot is useful if you are under 100 yards and engaging targets at speed. I would suggest one of the 1-4x scopes that may be had in the $1-200 range that would allow you to shoot at speed and then cluster some groups at 100 yards.
IMHO Red Dots are great for shooting under 100 yards while moving. I don't see the attraction to using a red dot from a bench rest. The irons are perfectly fine and probably more accurate for that purpose.
Oh, and OP: You can leave the Nut n Fancy acronyms at home. They may sound great in a video but...
I can't believe this thread is more than 24 hrs old and nobody has chimed in "learn to shoot with iron sights first- back in 1903 when the Springfield rifle came out, me and my buddies would shoot 3000 yards open sights on a man sized prison inmate...damn kids and their fancy red dot whoozie whatsies"
Come on NES, letting me down!![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
ahhhhmmm post 13
Varmint
NES Member
Sig Academy instructor told us the same thing, use the FA after a press check.
Dumb question, doesn't the 2nd method require you put an even number of rounds in the magazine?
Eugene Stoner did not include the FA in the original design and the original M16 had no FA. It was an extra doohingus the Army wanted after they F'd up when they gave bad maintenance instructions and they used the wrong propellant in the first 5.56 ammo.
To me the FA is unnecessary and I never used it except when I had to simulate firing in training or somebody was watching. If Stoner didn't think it was needed, it wasn't. It was a bureaucratic add on cuz somebody or very likely a bunch of some bodies F'd up at DA.
I just bought a Spikes "Slickside" stripped Upper from Primary Arms.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Upper_Receiver_M4_SlickSide_NO_Forward_Assist_M_p/sft55m4.htm
Lowbird
NES Member
Anybody have an opinion this as a potential option for the OP? You'd be out the door for about $500 w/transfer. Still have to Assify it though.
I have used Del Ton parts kits, but lack the experience with the quality of their complete rifles.
http://www.webyshops.com/Product-Ty...d-Magazine-Light-weight-Barrel-DTSPORTLT.html
I have used Del Ton parts kits, but lack the experience with the quality of their complete rifles.
http://www.webyshops.com/Product-Ty...d-Magazine-Light-weight-Barrel-DTSPORTLT.html
S&W has a lifetime warranty, a proven well made product that they stand behind, and a very solid price point for what you get. A gunsmith will cost more than the price difference and you will end up with an inferior product. Why?
Lowbird
NES Member
Just passing info along to the OP.
Out in the non NES interwebs. Stag, Del Ton, Windham. (Along with Smith) All seem to be comparable.
I know we have our favorites here. And hear the most about S&W and Ruger's warranty work.
I was personally curious on the consensus of the Del Ton from the "us". Along with maybe giving the OP an option.
The Del Ton popped up in an email at what seems like an decent price.
Out in the non NES interwebs. Stag, Del Ton, Windham. (Along with Smith) All seem to be comparable.
I know we have our favorites here. And hear the most about S&W and Ruger's warranty work.
I was personally curious on the consensus of the Del Ton from the "us". Along with maybe giving the OP an option.
The Del Ton popped up in an email at what seems like an decent price.
Windham is very solid but a higher price point ($1,000).
Stag's stuff is made by their parent company, which also makes uppers & lowers for half the "mfg's" out there. Stag has a package that brings their rifles up to mil spec for $100 so the price point gets over the $1k mark.
Smith is a budget product in price but their rifles meet most of the mil spec requirements. You end up getting a solid product or a good price well below $1k.
You get lifetime warranty with all three of those.
Stag's stuff is made by their parent company, which also makes uppers & lowers for half the "mfg's" out there. Stag has a package that brings their rifles up to mil spec for $100 so the price point gets over the $1k mark.
Smith is a budget product in price but their rifles meet most of the mil spec requirements. You end up getting a solid product or a good price well below $1k.
You get lifetime warranty with all three of those.
Last edited:
dcmdon
NES Member
Sure it does. It needs to be as accurate as possible for the price point. And it needs to be reliable.
Even shooting paper, there is nothing more frustrating than an unreliable rifle. And ifits not accurate, you don't know if that thrown shot is the gun or you.
Thanks to everyone who suggested options for non-FA uppers. I didn't realize these reasonably priced, quality uppers were available now.
I'd still prefer to trade though. Since I've got some unused uppers with FA.
- - - Updated - - -
The shipping could cost you almost as much as the difference. Many companies have warranties. But S&W covers return shipping costs also. Which is not always the case. They'll even ship you a box if you don't have one.
Thanks man
I think it's a good term to use so I use it...also I dont think I used it in acronym form but either way I dont see why it should bother you...
Yeah havent heard about the DelTon but ill gove it a look. Someone suggested an AR that Remington's making now but after all my bad experiences with their 1911 and all ive heard about what theyve done with Marlin lever actions, im thinking the only thing Remibgton shoukd stick with is their Bolt actions and Shot guns. On principle I'll not consider a Ruger AR because of Bill Ruger's BS back in the day (call me stupid or whatever but that's my opinion and im sticking to it). Will check out Whindams but the few I've seen were more expensive
It's kinda of funny the slab side stripped uppers are as much as they are..... I could not pay 100$plus for one.
I can only reply to accuracy of the SW sport by witness. Young kid at the range has one with a RRA National Match rear detach handle. He was all over the 10ring @ 100 yards with some black hills match shooting prone slung up....not to bad he's only been shooting for about 6 months. I'm sure shooting from a nice rest or even supported prone groups would tighten up.
Just like to add I was more impressed with this kid actually getting his groups in the 10ring vs the actual group size. My best groups tend to be anywhere but the 10ring!
I will also add that from a straight up accuracy stand point. I would put a doughnut or two in favor of a MP sport vs a true mil spec M4.
I can only reply to accuracy of the SW sport by witness. Young kid at the range has one with a RRA National Match rear detach handle. He was all over the 10ring @ 100 yards with some black hills match shooting prone slung up....not to bad he's only been shooting for about 6 months. I'm sure shooting from a nice rest or even supported prone groups would tighten up.
Just like to add I was more impressed with this kid actually getting his groups in the 10ring vs the actual group size. My best groups tend to be anywhere but the 10ring!
I will also add that from a straight up accuracy stand point. I would put a doughnut or two in favor of a MP sport vs a true mil spec M4.
Last edited:
Try a Windham Weaponry AR, I have one, it's a great rifle that's MA Compliant. Shop around for a great deal. I added a WW full auto BCG and H buffer to my MA Compliant model-with them you're GTG. Can't say enough about mine.
http://www.massfirearmsshop.com/windham-weaponry-556x45mm-p-1988.html
http://www.massfirearmsshop.com/windham-weaponry-556x45mm-p-1988.html
Varmint
NES Member
I think I'd avoid a rifle that's Mass compliant from the factory - why get one with a barrel that you'll need to get threaded if you want a muzzle device, and fixed stock that might be in the wrong position? Better to get a non-Mass version and have it made compliant by a gunsmith, imo.
better still get one with out a muzzle device and you can easily change out gas blocks, free floats, barrel nuts or what have you. You can with out much effort "un pin" readjust and repin the stock.... personally I would just get a A2 or A1 basic stock if its a option. for a base rifle like the M&P Sport you really should not be "up grading" it
to something that already is on the shelf. At that point you should be building up your own upper?
Last edited:
Varmint
NES Member
i'm a little fuzzy on the legality of a threaded barrel without a device on it. seems like it should be legal but I've seen people say it's not.
On a post ban pistol grip detachable mag rifle, a threaded barrel needs a thread protector or a muzzle brake/comp perm attached if you wanna be ban compliant.
If your going to get the MP sport compliant the barrel is not threaded has a recessed crown.
After shooting my National Match model with no muzzle device I have grown to like ARs with out muzzle devices.
As for legality AR you can have the detachable mag and 1 of the "evil" features
Pistol grip
Collapsible stock
Flash surpressor/threaded muzzle
Bayonet lug.
Unless of course you buy a pre Sept 1994 manufactured rifle.
Just be sure if you go the threaded muzzle route you know what you want for a muzzle device before paying to get it pinned and welded.
