FA-10 transfer - non lic individual

[efowke]

What are the potential liabilities for someone selling a gun if they do not have a current FID / LTC in Massachusetts. They live in MA, but lived out of state and legally purchased it in that state some time ago.
Now they want to get rid of it in order to be in compliance with the law.

Can they sell if on a FTF without being properly liscensed?
Are there any problems for the purchaser in this transaction?


Thanks

 

[95blklsc]

I think the only way to be legal is to go throuth a dealer. Although I'm 100% sure you can't legally do it FTF. Make sure you don't depend on my adivice, I'm not positive this is legit.

 

[securityboy]

Easy, just check off "registration" on the FA 10, and fill out the guns info and yours, and leave the seller stuff blank...

If you really think you or anyone else involved will get in trouble if you do it that way you need to loosen your tin foil hat...

 

[KMaurer]

It's illegal for an unlicensed individual to either purchase a firearm from or sell one to another individual, licensed or not. While the suggestion for the purchaser to simply report the transfer as a registration might manage to cover up the illegal transfer, it makes the purchaser both an accomplice to the sellers illegal action and guilty of perjury for falsifying the FA-10. YMMV, but I wouldn't do it.

Ken

 

[vellnueve]

Remember that the AG's office reads these boards.

Don't do anything illegal. Best way is to talk to your local FFL about taking the thing off his hands.

 

[efowke]

I appreciate everyone's posts.
Just to be clear. My intention is to avoid any illegal activity. I don't plan on doing anything remotely illegal. If I was, I wouldn't have advertised my actions with a post such as this.

I'm just looking for clarification to a question that was asked of me.
Thanks again.

 

[drgrant]

You and the individual should go to an FFL with the guns in question
and have them transferred. (if possible, many old handguns cannot
be transferred by most dealers unless the original owner has paperwork
showing provenance for MA compliance BS ). Unless this
transfer involves a dead guy and a will, there would appear to be
no "legal" way to do it with an FA-10, if the seller's license has
expired.


-Mike

 

[Chuck]

Is this all true (i.e. need to pay FLL transfer fee) for the case where a prior licensed individual has let his license lapse?

thanks,
Chuck

 

[M1911]

Is this all true (i.e. need to pay FLL transfer fee) for the case where a prior licensed individual has let his license lapse?

If the license has lapsed past the 90 day grace period, then I don't see any difference between the person who never had a license versus the person who no longer has a license. IANAL, but if I was in that situation, I'd do the transfer through an FFL. The transfer fee is relatively low anyways. How much of a lawyer's time would you get for $30? Consider the transfer fee to be cheap insurance.

 

[drgrant]

Not to mention, you could probably also get a discount from an FFL if you tell him he's doing multiple transfers at once. It wouldn't be unreasonable to ask for little bit of pencil sharpening on the dealers end on a "batch transfer".

-Mike

 

[Chuck]

OK, so it makes sense to use an FFL in a case like this. But doing so brings up a different problem: proving the gun has been "in state" since before 98 -- because it's not on the list. Wouldn't an FFL have to be able to prove that, unlike with a FTF transfer? If the FA-10, or its predecessor, was filed, shouldn't whoever gives a sh*t know it's been here?!

thanks for your input,
Chuck

 

[M1911]

If the FA-10, or its predecessor, was filed, shouldn't whoever gives a sh*t know it's been here?!

From what I understand, for many years the blue cards basically sat in shoe boxes and have never been entered into the system.

 

[vellnueve]

OK, so it makes sense to use an FFL in a case like this. But doing so brings up a different problem: proving the gun has been "in state" since before 98 -- because it's not on the list. Wouldn't an FFL have to be able to prove that, unlike with a FTF transfer? If the FA-10, or its predecessor, was filed, shouldn't whoever gives a sh*t know it's been here?!

thanks for your input,
Chuck

If you're referring to a non-EOPS list or non AG compliant handgun, the burden is on the FFL. That's why most require positive proof before they'll transfer.

 

[pdm]

From what I understand, for many years the blue cards basically sat in shoe boxes and have never been entered into the system.

Didn't they all get eaten by mice or something?

 

[M1911]

Didn't they all get eaten by mice or something?

I never heard anything like that. But if you look at a blue card, you realize that you to put them into the system you'd have to have each one keypunched, with the poor operator trying to decipher the gun owners/gun shop employee's scrawl. That takes a lot of time and thus a lot of money.

 

[KMaurer]

From what I understand, for many years the blue cards basically sat in shoe boxes and have never been entered into the system.

Didn't they all get eaten by mice or something?

I don't know about mice (though I wouldn't doubt it), but I do know that those boxes were stored in the attic when they were down at 1010 Comm Ave, and when they moved to the McCormack Building in the around 1990, they attempted to clean them up. They finally gave up and tossed them all when the new FA-10 came into use. The state has essentially no transfer/registration information prior to 1998.

Ken

 

[pdm]

I don't know about mice (though I wouldn't doubt it), but I do know that those boxes were stored in the attic when they were down at 1010 Comm Ave, and when they moved to the McCormack Building in the around 1990, they attempted to clean them up. They finally gave up and tossed them all when the new FA-10 came into use. The state has essentially no transfer/registration information prior to 1998.

Ken

I wish I had been licensed back then.

 

[Chuck]

The state has essentially no transfer/registration information prior to 1998.

Let me guess, the burden of proof is on the citizen, not the government that lost/tossed the legal documents?!

duh!

-= chuck

 

[M1911]

Let me guess, the burden of proof is on the citizen, not the government that lost/tossed the legal documents?!

In this case, the burden of proof is on the FFL. So the FFL will want to see a copy of the FA-10 or blue card. That's why I've got a notebook where I keep the paperwork for every gun I have every owned.

 

[Half Cocked]

I don't know about mice (though I wouldn't doubt it), but I do know that those boxes were stored in the attic when they were down at 1010 Comm Ave, and when they moved to the McCormack Building in the around 1990, they attempted to clean them up. They finally gave up and tossed them all when the new FA-10 came into use. The state has essentially no transfer/registration information prior to 1998.

Ken

You are correct!! They trashed everything!! I remembered visiting about 15 years ago and all FA-10's from dealers and blue cards were loose in various boxes.