Even small localities got big guns

[GSG]

More drama about cops and guns from the Globe.

Even small localities got big guns

Some regulations for police unenforced

By Donovan Slack
Globe Staff / June 15, 2009

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma..._on_distribution_of_military_weapons_in_mass/

Police in Wellfleet, a community known for stunning beaches and succulent oysters, scored three military assault rifles. At Salem State College, where recent police calls have included false fire alarms and a goat roaming the campus, school police got two M-16s. In West Springfield, police acquired even more powerful weaponry: two military-issue M-79 grenade launchers.

Some 82 local police departments in Massachusetts have obtained more than 1,000 weapons over the last 15 years under a federal program that distributes surplus guns from the US military, the Globe reported earlier this month. Now, new information identifies which communities received the weapons: They range from small towns like Hamilton, Marblehead, and Wayland to more populous communities like Worcester, Framingham, and Revere.

And a Globe review of a dozen departments found that most did not notify their community of the acquisitions. It also found inconsistencies in how the program is monitored, including cases in which communities received more guns than allowed.

In one suburban town, Belmont, people who live and work there were surprised to learn of the presence of six M-14s.

"Is this a war zone?" said Kevin M. Mullins, 25, who works at a Belmont bookshop. "For what logical purpose do they need semiautomatic rifles in Belmont?"

But many of the departments said they were taking advantage of free weaponry in the event they might need it to ward off terrorists or stop a shooting rampage.

"You never know what's going to happen. Anything can happen, anywhere," said Mark Laverdure, the police chief in Clinton, a town on the Wachusett Reservoir in Central Massachusetts that ordered 18 assault rifles from the government earlier this year.

"You're in a small town, you're working with one or two officers, all it would take is one emotionally disturbed person with a deer rifle" to create a violent crisis, said Wellfleet Police Chief Richard P. Rosenthal, whose department received three surplus M-14s but then shelved them and bought lighter-weight M-4s for its officers. "The only thing we would have had is a shotgun."

Federal officials say none of the weapons have been reported stolen or used in a crime. But Ken MacNevin, spokesman for the US Defense Reutilization & Marketing Service, said the agency still expects the state to strictly adhere to federal regulations.

A spokesman for the State Police, which is charged with overseeing the program in Massachusetts, said the department generally follows program rules, conducting regular audits to make sure the weapons haven't gone missing and ensuring the guns are properly registered. But the spokesman, David Procopio, said the department also trusts local law enforcement agencies to follow the rules on their own.

"Our expectation is that local departments who tell us they know what the regulations are are indeed following them," he said. "If we receive information that a local agency is not in compliance, we will look into that."

According to the Globe review, some departments got more arms than federal regulations allow. In some cases, the state has not enforced requirements that the arms be put to use within a year or returned to the military. And the state also failed to renew its contract with the federal government to oversee distribution of the weapons, after its lead coordinator retired three years ago.

Governor Deval Patrick's administration said it launched a review of the program after the Globe inquiries.

"The Executive Office of Public Safety and Security is reviewing the state's role in this program to ensure effective and appropriate oversight is being applied," said Terrel Harris, a spokesman for the agency.

Procopio said a civilian employee has been overseeing the program since the lead coordinator, a State Police lieutenant colonel, retired. He said the department expects to have a new oversight contract with the federal government signed in the near future.

The US military surplus program has provided 1,068 weapons to police departments in Massachusetts since 1994, including 486 fully automatic M-16 machine guns and 564 M-14 semiautomatic rifles, according to records withheld by State Police but later provided by the Defense Reutilization & Marketing Service. Most of the M-16s have been modified to perform like semiautomatic rifles, firing only one bullet at a time, instead of rapidly spraying rounds.

Many local police officials said they ordered the weapons to prepare for a catastrophic event like the shooting rampage at Columbine High School in 1999, when two teens used automatic weapons to gun down students, and a bank robbery in Los Angeles in 1997 when two robbers with automatic rifles injured 10 police officers in a shootout. More recently, terrorists armed with automatic weapons and grenades killed 166 people in Mumbai last November.

"We really see this as an essential tool that we have that allows us to respond to that kind of incident," Bridgewater State College Police Chief David Tillinghast said.

Some police chiefs said the price tag - or lack thereof - also influenced their decisions. "With budgets the way they are, any time we can get something with no dollar signs attached to it, we have to take a long, hard look at it," said Wayland Police Chief Robert Irving, whose department ordered three M-16s in February.

Departments are deploying the weapons in various ways. Some equipped only specialized SWAT officers with the rifles. Some issued them to patrol officers who keep them locked in cruisers. Others keep the weapons locked in stations, ready for distribution in emergencies.

Under the program, the local police departments sent applications for the weapons to the State Police, which then approved them and sent them to federal officials for processing and shipment. Among the rules for approval: No department was supposed to receive more than two rifles for every 10 full-time, sworn officers.

But records show some departments exceeded that limit. School police at Bridgewater State College have 21 full-time officers but received six M-16s. Marblehead received eight M-16s, even though it has 30 full-time officers. Wellfleet's 13-member department got three M-14s.

After the weapons were shipped, State Police were supposed to conduct regular checks to ensure they were used.

But some communities said they haven't used the weapons since they got them. In West Springfield, the grenade launchers that police initially ordered to shoot tear gas canisters in crowd-control or hostage situations have been mothballed in an armory for more than a decade, and officers there are no longer trained to use them. Wellfleet's M-14s have also been shelved since the town received them. Wellfleet Chief Rosenthal called them "fine pieces of machinery" but said the rifles, which he got in 1999, couldn't be fitted for the type of sights he wanted, so he just stored them.

"Now I've got three albatrosses," said Rosenthal, who decided instead to buy new semiautomatic rifles that his officers keep in hard cases, in cruiser trunks.

One department said it never planned to use the weapons for law enforcement in the first place. At Salem State College, Police Chief William G. Anglin said the two M-16s he ordered earlier this year were for his color guard to carry during ceremonies. He said they aren't loaded - no bullets in the chamber or high-capacity clips. "I couldn't use those rifles out on the street," Anglin said. "They're just ceremonial weapons."

A random survey of 12 departments found none had notified the public, even though some have armed regular patrol officers with the rifles. One chief, in Belchertown, said he did tell the town's Board of Selectmen when he got four M-16s from the military in 2003 and when he equipped patrol cars with semiautomatic rifles he purchased from a manufacturer.

In Framingham, Lieutenant Paul Shastany likened community involvement in arms decisions to public involvement in hospitals' decisions on what type and how many heart stents to buy.

"That decision belongs with police officials, not the public," said Shastany, whose department received16 M-16s in 1997.

Chelsea Police Chief Brian A. Kyes said that after a public outcry in recent weeks about similar plans in Boston and at the MBTA, he decided to inform the public before he deploys the 18 M-16s the department ordered in March.

"Now that this has occurred, I think it would be an important step for us," Kyes said. "If the community is strongly against this, we're going to have to reevaluate."

Globe correspondent Nandini Jayakrishna contributed to this report. Donovan Slack can be reached at [email protected].

 

[Kenny474]

I feel that the Police should be well armed and trained to use the weapons if needed. I don't think that they should be "shelved" and not put into use though. Just send them back if not needed. The amount of weapons per officer should be increased a bit, but only if used.

 

[wolf223]

Omfg. why did i turn on the TV this morning? seems this program has been shit-canned by the governor.

lets give 'em wheel guns and single shot "deer rifles"

 

[Blitz1]

Omfg. why did i turn on the TV this morning? seems this program has been shit-canned by the governor.

lets give 'em wheel guns and single shot "deer rifles"

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/19765043/detail.html

State Suspends Police Assault Weapon Program
Review Will Look At Weapons, Communities

BOSTON -- Massachusetts has suspended a program that distributes high-powered, military weapons to local police departments following criticism into the way the program is operated.

A spokesman for the state Public Safety Department said Monday the program has been suspended pending the completion of a review to look at the way it is run, the weapons involved, and the communities that get them.

The move was ordered by Gov. Deval Patrick following a review by The Boston Globe that found 82 police departments in Massachusetts have obtained more than 1,000 military-grade assault weapons.

The weapons in some cases have been distributed to small towns with little crime, without any type of community or legislative input, and in excess of federal guidelines.

 

[Bob J]

Wonder if they are willing to part with their "Albatrosses".... Would love to help them free up some storage space....

 

[Smiles1014]

You know departments are arming up to combat US because of our gun buying frenzy with America on the verge of economic collapse with unemployment raising. All hell might break loose!

 

[P-14]

Doesn't surprise me at all. The Govenor and legislature doesn't trust lawful citizens with firearms. Why should they trust the police?

This drives the need home:

You're in a small town, you're working with one or two officers, all it would take is one emotionally disturbed person with a deer rifle" to create a violent crisis, said Wellfleet Police Chief Richard P. Rosenthal, whose department received three surplus M-14s but then shelved them and bought lighter-weight M-4s for its officers. "The only thing we would have had is a shotgun."

Now, why some departments need 40mm grenade launchers is a another issue. Seems a little over-the-top to me.

 

[hminsky]

I don't think the police need or should have semi automatic rifles.

I think the citizens should have them.

If the police really have a pressing need, maybe they could ask to borrow a semi automatic rifle from someone in their town. As the Globe article points out, most police departments have never needed these guns in a decade. They already know who in their towns have them, so what
exactly was the point of all those FA-10 forms for gun registration anyway?

 

[Bob P]

I said this once before in another thread, once the police get them and the public gets used to the idea of Officer Friendly carrying an AR in the crusier, suddenly the EBR isn't as scary as it once was - and that's BAD news for the antis. Of course they don't want the police to have them. God forbid the public get exposed to them and realize that they're just another tool.

 

[mark056]

There are a lot of ways to go with this topic: increased militarization of the police, the need to have military weapons to use against the populace etc. I think there is some validity to these points...however...

It's far better to have a weapon and not use it, than to need a weapon and not have it. Stuff can happen anywhere, and having the appropriate threat management tools to do the job if the SHTF is paramount if the police are to prevail.

A more serious concern that I have is training. The lethality factor of any of the rifles mentioned is greater than that of a handgun (a 9mm can make one just as dead as a 5.56 no argument there) in the sense that these shoulder fired weapons have greater penetration and a higher cyclic rate of fire. They also, esp in the case of the M16's require a fairly high degree of maintenance. I don't think most police officers will get the proper training in these types of weapons, and if they do, they don't get the opportunity to practice regularly. The handgun proficiency of many LEOs is marginal at best, and adding additonal qualification and training time as well as a new weapon that requires maintenance support to already strapped departmental budgets is asking a lot.

I think those few on every department who have the interest and talent should be allowed to have access to military rifles, and these individuals should form the nucleas of the department's SWAT unit.

As a general purpose shoulder fired weapon for general police service, I still think a 12ga pump shotgun can do the job.

Mark056

 

[Mark from MA]

First of all the smallest localities should have the big guns....it could take a long time for backup/state police to arrive....but why look at it with common sense. Does surpise me a little bit that the cops aren't gonna get what they want, that usually is not the case here in the Commiewealth. That said, I'm all for them having them....they should be able to be well in case of any threat.
If China invaded, or some major event happened -all these liberal aholes that unarmed the Police would be the first to be looking for help, and condemning them for not having enough hardware to take care of the situation.

As usual, the moonbattery in this state never ceases to amaze me.....

As long as we can have M4's, I'm good.......

 

[fbirdquik6]

Now, why some departments need 40mm grenade launchers is a another issue. Seems a little over-the-top to me.

Theyre used for deploying CS canisters, Baton rounds, and door breeching rounds. HE rounds are NOT being used with these.

 

[Pilgrim]

"Is this a war zone?" said Kevin M. Mullins, 25, who works at a Belmont bookshop. "For what logical purpose do they need semiautomatic rifles in Belmont?"

Nope, a bolt action will do just fine.

 

[fbirdquik6]

Why do they ask the opinion of some one who works in a damn bookshop!

 

[P-14]

Theyre used for deploying CS canisters, Baton rounds, and door breeching rounds. HE rounds are NOT being used with these.

OK, if this is true, then I have no issue.

 

[Lynne]

Why do they ask the opinion of some one who works in a damn bookshop!

They made the mistake of thinking he was educated.

 

[atilla]

if they don't need those M14s in welfleet... yeah... i'll give them a good home.

 

[Half Cocked]

I don't think the police need or should have semi automatic rifles.

Please explain... I am curious...

I think the citizens should have them.

Shouldn't everyone be allowed to have one? You said that the police should not have them because they don't need them. Do you need one.

No... you want one in case the need arises. So do the police.

If the police really have a pressing need, maybe they could ask to borrow a semi automatic rifle from someone in their town.

You are being sarcastic here.....right?

As the Globe article points out, most police departments have never needed these guns in a decade.

Have you ever needed yours? Most officers have never used their handguns... should they be disarmed completely?

They already know who in their towns have them,

They do? Guess again!

so what exactly was the point of all those FA-10 forms for gun registration anyway?

FA-10's are to record transactions and transfers so the State knows who is buying and selling firearms. They are not intended for "registration".

 

[Half Cocked]

Why do they ask the opinion of some one who works in a damn bookshop!

Because he was the only one who gave them the quote they wanted!

 

[wolf223]

"Is this a war zone?" said Kevin M. Mullins, 25, who works at a Belmont bookshop. "For what logical purpose do they need semiautomatic rifles in Belmont?"

+1 Pilgrim!



dip shit... look at what happened in Cambridge this morning. it's IN your back yard!!!

 

[EddieCoyle]

I should go down to my local PD and let them know they can borrow some of mine whenever they need them, but they'll have to bring their own ammo - and none of that commie steel stuff either. And I'll want them to save me their brass.

That's great, our sackless governor caved in to a paper on the verge of extinction because some punk in a bookstore got scared.

I have no problem with the police being as well armed as I am (but not more so).

 

[RI_John]

I should go down to my local PD and let them know they can borrow some of mine whenever they need them, but they'll have to bring their own ammo - and none of that commie steel stuff either. And I'll want them to save me their brass.

That's great, our sackless governor caved in to a paper on the verge of extinction because some punk in a bookstore got scared.

I have no problem with the police being as well armed as I am (but not more so).

damn that's funny! telling them to police their brass to give back to you!

 

[Lynne]

I should go down to my local PD and let them know they can borrow some of mine whenever they need them, but they'll have to bring their own ammo - and none of that commie steel stuff either. And I'll want them to save me their brass.

Don't forget - if they need to use any of them, they have to clean them too.

 

[Underwhere]

Media sucks.

Give the police the tools they need...and make sure to allow citizens the same.

 

[hminsky]

Please explain... I am curious...




Shouldn't everyone be allowed to have one? You said that the police should not have them because they don't need them. Do you need one.

No... you want one in case the need arises. So do the police.




You are being sarcastic here.....right?



Have you ever needed yours? Most officers have never used their handguns... should they be disarmed completely?




They do? Guess again!



FA-10's are to record transactions and transfers so the State knows who is buying and selling firearms. They are not intended for "registration".

Yes I was being kind of sarcastic. In our town, the police issue restricted LTC to most applicants, and therefore are telling me that I do not need the ability to protect myself. So I was just proposing it the other way around, that the police should have to come ask the public for help, because they aren't supplied the tools they need. I agree with Eddie Coyle, that whatever is available to the police should be available to the rest of the public.

 

[jcr]

and 564 M-14 semiautomatic rifles

Since when is an M-14 considered a semiautomatic?

If they were, we could be an owner of a surples M-14.

 

[vellnueve]

They're converted.

 

[vellnueve]

Now, why some departments need 40mm grenade launchers is a another issue. Seems a little over-the-top to me.

I would generally agree... but West Springfield?

 

[mark056]

Since when is an M-14 considered a semiautomatic?

If they were, we could be an owner of a surples M-14.

You obviously didn't read my earlier post. M14's in their standard form were semi-automatic, however they could be converted to selective fire. There are times when I really miss Scrivner . The M14 is still in active service with the US Navy and sees limited applicability in the other branches of the US Armed Forces.

Mark056

 

[calsdad]

Since when is an M-14 considered a semiautomatic?

If they were, we could be an owner of a surples M-14.

The Army converted most M14's to semi auto function way back when they were issued because they found that full auto fire was just not controllable enough to make it combat effective on that rifle.

The BATF classifies anything with a full auto receiver - as being full auto now and forever more - even if the actual function of the rifle has been converted over to semi auto.

There has been numerous discussions on this over on the CMP forums and here and there around the internets. It's why you will never see M16's or M14's ever released to the public thru CMP - even if they are converted to semi auto functionality.

When Clintoon destroyed all the M14's back in the 90's a good portion of the parts were sold off (which is why Fred has so much stuff to sell) - the receivers however - were destroyed (because the receiver is the gun according to the ATF.)