Etiquette & Transportation Question

[PLINKER]

I recently had a discussion with a senior member of a local gun club and these two points were raised.

1. I have a Class A Massachusetts license, and carry concealed most of the time. It was suggested to me that it was not proper etiquette to arrive at the range carrying a loaded, holstered weapon. No reason was given other than "it simply isn't acceptable".

Can anyone substantiate the merits and/or the reason for my "infraction."

2. I arrived at the range carrying two zippered range bags, one with pistols unloaded and without magazines, and the other with ammunition etc.

It was pointed out to me that all the weapons and ammunition should have been transported in locked containers, and that the weapons should have been secured with
locks.

I travel to the range in a small pickup truck and have no secured storage within the cab.

Sometimes it's how things are said that make you want to cringe, but I would like the input from more experienced shooters.

If wrong, I will correct my ways! Just want everyone to be safe.

Plinker

 

[tk421991]

Learn and follow your club's rules. If you don't like the rules, go to another club or bring the point up at a meeting or in private to say the President or someone you have a working relationship with who has weight in the club.

 

[fencer]

Guy is an asshat and you should find another club.

So, I am going to be transporting a couple thousand dollars worth of firearms and ammo, but I should be unarmed so someone can take them from me?

No thanks

 

[kalash]

They want you to be defenseless on your way to the range? No way I'd do that and if it's a club rule I'd find a new club. In fact, I'm typing this from my car, while parked at the range and waiting for friends - the gun I'll be shooting is loaded and holstered on my person.

 

[Nick Leduc]

1: They are wrong. Continue carrying.

2: (Chapter 140, section 131L)
TRANSPORTING IN A VEHICLE:
The law specifies how certain types of guns are to be transported.

• Handguns under a Class A License: “No person carrying a loaded firearm (i.e. handgun) under a Class A license to carry firearms... shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person.” (Chapter 140, section 131C)
• Handguns on a Class B License: “No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license to carry firearms shall possess the same unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container.” (Chapter 140, section 131C)
• Large Capacity rifles and shotguns: “No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B License... shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded, and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container.” (Chapter 140, section 131C)
• Rifles and Shotguns: “No person... shall have in his possession or under his control in or on any vehicle or aircraft a loaded shotgun or rifle.. Chapter 131, section 63

The zipper should have a lock on it.

 

[MAJoe]

Regarding your first point, that just sounds like their range rules. Could be to prevent Johnny Quick Draw from practicing his self defense drills and putting holes in the floor.

For the second point, I believe the pistols do need to be locked since you don't have a trunk. Not trigger or cable, but the container/bag locked and secured. Trigger and cable locks don't mean squat for transport. Ammo does not need to be, but would be prudent to keep out of sight. Do you have a locking box in the bed?

 

[92G]

If firearm is holstered then whats the problem? The club member is probably just scared or needs to go up on their meds.

 

[Dadstoys]

Time to find a new place to shoot.
I've gotten to the point where I have no tolerance at all for needle dicked little range Nazi's who feel the need to inflict themselves on everyone that steps onto the club property.
If I'm violating the clubs safety rules then speak up and correct me.
Otherwise get the F*ck out of my face and stop trying to ruin my nice day out and the precious few hours I give myself a week to enjoy myself.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

I'm sorry I was confused.. When I saw you walk in and talked about it with you I wasn't sure if I should blow my rape whistle or pee myself... Just having you disarmed when coming to a gun club makes me feel better. Please don't scare me like that with your pew pew machines..

 

[greencobra]

holy smokes, never heard in my life carrying on gun club, any club, property was frowned upon. ive seen specific range rules for drawing out of a holster but never carrying. is this your club? dig out the range rules.

 

[Asaltweapon]

The guy is an idiot. If the club rule does say that, the club is run by idiots.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

Another reason why I'm not looking to join a club, I have zero patience for people especially ones that police things they don't have any business policing. "Senior" member or not tell the guy to F**K off

 

[whacko]

Another reason why I'm not looking to join a club, I have zero patience for people especially ones that police things they don't have any business policing. "Senior" member or not tell the guy to F**K off

My club is fine with loaded amd holstered weapons. Only rule is handling of fire arms needs to be done on the firing line. In other words.....dont take it out and play with it unless you are on the range. A rule i am fine with.

 

[bill o]

Learn and follow your club's rules. If you don't like the rules, go to another club or bring the point up at a meeting or in private to say the President or someone you have a working relationship with who has weight in the club.

There's no indication in the OP that these are club rules. It sounds like a Fudd making stuff up. There is no merit whatsoever to either point.

 

[tk421991]

There's no indication in the OP that these are club rules. It sounds like a Fudd making stuff up. There is no merit whatsoever to either point.

Why do you think I said "learn the rules"? So if it isn't a rule, the guy can say "uh, I don't see such a rule in our club rulebook. So go blow it out your rectum."

 

[drgrant]

Dump that club and join one that isn't run by douchebags. (Assuming the bloviation in question is actually a rule).

 

[whacko]

There's no indication in the OP that these are club rules. It sounds like a Fudd making stuff up. There is no merit whatsoever to either point.

Sometimes fudds are gonna fudd. A couple weeks ago a fudd at my club said nobody was allowed to touch anything while the range was cold.....i was loading mags at the rear table at the time. I tend not to argue with folks at the range but pointed out that the rule is all rifles must be cleared and racked and all handguns must be out of battery on the rear table when the range is cold.....loading mags is fine (actually written in the range rules specifically that mags can be loaded as long as everythig is racked or on the rear table and no handling of fire arms while cold). He said I was wrong and was being unsafe. Whatever.....ill load em when you return from changing targets and we go hot again. Some shit aint worth ruining a range day over. But in the ops case.....id ask the board for clarrification.

 

[MAJoe]

Sometimes fudds are gonna fudd. A couple weeks ago a fudd at my club said nobody was allowed to touch anything while the range was cold.....i was loading mags at the rear table at the time. I tend not to argue with folks at the range but pointed out that the rule is all rifles must be cleared and racked and all handguns must be out of battery on the rear table when the range is cold.....loading mags is fine (actually written in the range rules specifically that mags can be loaded as long as everythig is racked or on the rear table and no handling of fire arms while cold). He said I was wrong and was being unsafe. Whatever.....ill load em when you return from changing targets and we go hot again. Some shit aint worth ruining a range day over. But in the ops case.....id ask the board for clarrification.

Did he think rounds can magically be fired from a lone magazine??

 

[92G]

Sometimes fudds are gonna fudd. A couple weeks ago a fudd at my club said nobody was allowed to touch anything while the range was cold.....i was loading mags at the rear table at the time. I tend not to argue with folks at the range but pointed out that the rule is all rifles must be cleared and racked and all handguns must be out of battery on the rear table when the range is cold.....loading mags is fine (actually written in the range rules specifically that mags can be loaded as long as everythig is racked or on the rear table and no handling of fire arms while cold). He said I was wrong and was being unsafe. Whatever.....ill load em when you return from changing targets and we go hot again. Some shit aint worth ruining a range day over. But in the ops case.....id ask the board for clarrification.

my outdoor club when range is cold we cannot load mags. Cannot handle any firearms or ammo. At first I thought was silly rule but after seeing how stubborn some club members are, I am actually just fine w it. the issue w mag loading is that muscle memory takes over, next thing you know its being inserted and chambered while people are downrange.

- - - Updated - - -

Another reason why I'm not looking to join a club, I have zero patience for people especially ones that police things they don't have any business policing. "Senior" member or not tell the guy to F**K off

I feel much safer at a private club. The cost is well worth it, assuming club doesnt suck.

 

[whacko]

my outdoor club when range is cold we cannot load mags. Cannot handle any firearms or ammo. At first I thought was silly rule but after seeing how stubborn some club members are, I am actually just fine w it. the issue w mag loading is that muscle memory takes over, next thing you know its being inserted and chambered while people are downrange.

- - - Updated - - -



I feel much safer at a private club. The cost is well worth it, assuming club doesnt suck.

Thanks for your input. However....the rule does not exist at my club. In fact it specifically states mags can be loaded as long as guns are racked and not handled. He was talking out his ass. If the rule existed id follow it.

 

[transamkid86]

I would look up range rules and then i would bring it up to a higher club member. Even in meetings you see they all are carrying....smh

 

[n1bsbri]

I would look up range rules and then i would bring it up to a higher club member. Even in meetings you see they all are carrying....smh

Are you guys open carry? I carry at the range, and at club meetings, but nobody would or should konw. Concealed is concealed.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

Sometimes fudds are gonna fudd. A couple weeks ago a fudd at my club said nobody was allowed to touch anything while the range was cold.....i was loading mags at the rear table at the time. I tend not to argue with folks at the range but pointed out that the rule is all rifles must be cleared and racked and all handguns must be out of battery on the rear table when the range is cold.....loading mags is fine (actually written in the range rules specifically that mags can be loaded as long as everythig is racked or on the rear table and no handling of fire arms while cold). He said I was wrong and was being unsafe. Whatever.....ill load em when you return from changing targets and we go hot again. Some shit aint worth ruining a range day over. But in the ops case.....id ask the board for clarrification.

Fudd or not letting people get away with spewing bullshit compounds the problem, most of the time when you stand up for yourself and don't take nonsense from people the next time around they might actually mind their own business and shut their mouths.

 

[Another_David]

don't just quit the club, as some have suggested. read the club rules and find out the real answer. talk to other members asking if they carry to the club or not. if there's no rule that forbids carrying and other members and officers don't have a problem then just ignore this guy. if it turns out it is a rule and you're in the wrong then bring it up at a meeting and see if everyone agrees. only if the majority of the club wants it that way would I consider quitting. It's YOUR club too--doesn't matter how long you've been a member or how long Fuddly Do Right has been a member.

for transport as you write it, you're both wrong. Ammo doesn't have to be locked and trigger or chamber locks don't meet the transport requirements of Mass (although they can be used for storage). by the letter of the law if not under your "direct control" handguns and high capacity rifles should be unloaded and in a locked case. a case is subjective but a decent range bag with a suitcase zipper lock is fine.

Also, it's debatable but some might say if you're sitting right next to the unlocked bag with the handgun in the vehicle it's still under you control and thus in compliance without the lock--and I would agree with that but you're on shaky ground because if you get out of the vehicle and leave the bag behind then you're not in compliance. A large capacity rifle would always need to be in a locked case. A trunk constitutes a locked case but your truck obviously doesn't have one of those.

 

[headednorth]

for transport as you write it, you're both wrong. Ammo doesn't have to be locked and trigger or chamber locks don't meet the transport requirements of Mass (although they can be used for storage). by the letter of the law if not under your "direct control" handguns and high capacity rifles should be unloaded and in a locked case. a case is subjective but a decent range bag with a suitcase zipper lock is fine.

This.

I have a pickup as well. I got a heavy plastic tool box I keep in back. Its maybe 3'6"w X 2'd X 2'h couple holes molded in for a padlock. Iirc, it cost like $45 at HD. Its not going to stop anyone from getting in, I just use it for extra storage to keep stuff dry. (rain gear, bungees, folding camping chairs, etc) I typically use the range bag with locked zippers method when going to and from the range. Ammo tends to be in the bag just for convenience but sometimes its just on the seat. No need to lock when transporting. There's been a couple of times Ive used the box as a locked container for transporting if I didnt have the bag with me. (Picking up a new purchase at a shop for instance)

Sounds like the guy is suffering from a case of Massprudence. Laws are bad enough here without people making shit up.

Fwiw, I was at an Appleseed at Harvard one time where people who were carrying were asked to stow their carry guns in their vehicles.

 

[Another_David]

Fwiw, I was at an Appleseed at Harvard one time where people who were carrying were asked to stow their carry guns in their vehicles.

I don't have a problem with that considering the Appleseed program is for all ages and skill level including complete beginners. Thus, they run a tight ship and while it may seem overly restrictive as far as safety is concerned, if I were responsible for the safety of 30 random people--some of which may have never fired a gun before--I'd do it the same way.

 

[drgrant]

my outdoor club when range is cold we cannot load mags. Cannot handle any firearms or ammo. At first I thought was silly rule but after seeing how stubborn some club members are, I am actually just fine w it. the issue w mag loading is that muscle memory takes over, next thing you know its being inserted and chambered while people are downrange.

If you ask people to step away from guns while the range is cold this is a non issue. I will never give money to clubs that don't allow mag loading on a cold range.

 

[JackOfAllTrades]

Fwiw, I was at an Appleseed at Harvard one time where people who were carrying were asked to stow their carry guns in their vehicles.

I believe that it is Appleseed policy (not range policy) that you not carry for the event. I can see the logic in that. You, as an event participant, are lying down, standing up, changing positions, wiggling around to change your aim, etc. What might be perfectly good at retaining your firearm under normal conditions might not be so good under these conditions. Rather than risk pistols accidentally falling all over the place, stow them for the duration of the event.

I too have a truck with no lockable storage. I just use lockable rifle cases and range bags. Yeah, it is a $1.49 lock on a cloth bag, but it meets the requirements.

 

[browncoat]

This is silly. I'm a member of a club that doesn't allow firing from holstered, and they make it clear that members are allowed to carry on club property, even on restricted LTC. When a range goes cold, the expectation is that all firearms will be either on the benches or properly holstered, with no handling of holstered or benched guns.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

1. The club's position is bullshit. I'd guess the same guys that say "not acceptable" will be the first complain if their chief restrict their LTCs to "target shooting only" because carrying at a shopping mall is "not acceptable". We corrected this at Hopkinton a decade or so ago - the rule is now no unholstering of a loaded gun except at the firing line.

2. The EOPS has taken the position that a locked trunk is a "locked case" for the purpose of transport.

3. Commonwealth v. Reyes touches on the "direct control" issue but, in typical MA fashion, fails to make a 100% clear cut statement about direct control of a gun not on your person in a car.