e-FA10. It's officially a mess!

[milktree]

My belief is that we have to use their form.

...and provided, further, that such resident reports within seven days, in writing to the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services on forms furnished by said executive director, the names and ...

Note the part in bold. Quote taken from here.

Does "form" have a specific legal meaning, or could they argue that a web form qualifies as a "form furnished by said executive director"?

 

[namedpipes]

They have taken a database that, though flawed, had very limited access by the public, and shoved it into our laps.

I'm positive that a sufficiently motivated person could hack into it and read what they like.

At the very LEAST the only thing preventing bogus data injection is a PIN.

The actions of this state lately remind me of the old redneck saying:

Hold my beer and watch this!

 

[Kevlar]

Does "form" have a specific legal meaning, or could they argue that a web form qualifies as a "form furnished by said executive director"?

IMO, the stronger legal argument is the "in writing" statutory requirement...

...This seems to suggest that any valid form "the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services on forms furnished by said executive director" provides must be able to accept "writing". So any system that REQUIRES us to use a PC is not going to fly for this and the simple reason that indigent and destitute gun owners may not have online access...

This is my concern.

It will disproportionally affect lower income people, effectively prohibiting them from exercising their 2A rights.

 

[center442]

Does "form" have a specific legal meaning, or could they argue that a web form qualifies as a "form furnished by said executive director"?

milktree, I don't know what the legal definition for "form" is. The language says that we must use a form furnished by the Executive Director. It doesn't say how the form shall be furnished. Up until now, the form was the three part hard copy. My guess would be that the electronic form is the way the state has now chosen to furnish the form.

A while back, when the state stopped printing the hard copy form, quite a few people wondered why the state didn't just move to an online form. As people have pointed out, there are many problems with just having an online only version. If the state will continue to accept paper forms as well as the online form, I could live with that. (BTW, I'm not supporting the idea of having to fill out any form at all.) That would give us three ways to register a transfer:

1) Online
2) The old 3 part NCR paper form
3) A paper form printed out from the pdf file (available right here on NES)

 

[one-eyed Jack]

This can't possibly work anyway. To do MIRCS, they had to come and program me. And I need to change the password from time to time. To do the 4473 background check online, I need a password and digital certificate. Will we ever see and detailed instructions on how to do it? Jack.

 

[namedpipes]

coakley on 96 9 in a few minutes if anyone is feeling brave enough to ask herwhat the bleep is going on and how this is going to make anyone safer

 

[Larry Legend]

FA-10 Form Alert

June 1, 2011 Update

GOAL Executive Director Jim Wallace just spoke to Jason Guida, Director of the FRB stating that paper FA10 forms will still be available and accepted.

We are still waiting for further information as to what the availability of the forms will be.

We have also requested the details of this in writing, when GOAL receives this information we will share it here first.

Does this mean we can still use the online printable FA-10's?

 

[BE4TNUT]

So back to my question... It was listed as going live yesterday on 06/01/11, but I cannot find it anywhere on the mas.gov site or anything. Has anyone seen this yet? I am curious and would like to poke around on it and the information they may have with it.

 

[BE4TNUT]

Does this mean we can still use the online printable FA-10's?

Yes, they will still be accepted. If they were to say they were not accepting them they would have a severe backlash from the pro2a community.

 

[umd0808]

And it looks like it's up....

Massachusetts Firearms Registration and Transfer System

Use this link to record all firearms transactions.

Massachusetts law requires all residents to report any sale or transfer (including gifts) of a weapon within 7 days of the transaction. Massachusetts law also requires all residents to report the acquisition of a weapon within 7 days in certain instances.

The E-FA-10 replaces Form FA-10, the three-part form previously used to file a weapon transaction record and is the current “form” furnished by the Commissioner of the DCJIS in accordance with G.L. c. 140, §§ 128A and 128B.

 

[Keystone]

And it looks like it's up....

Massachusetts Firearms Registration and Transfer System

Use this link to record all firearms transactions.

Massachusetts law requires all residents to report any sale or transfer (including gifts) of a weapon within 7 days of the transaction. Massachusetts law also requires all residents to report the acquisition of a weapon within 7 days in certain instances.

The E-FA-10 replaces Form FA-10, the three-part form previously used to file a weapon transaction record and is the current “form” furnished by the Commissioner of the DCJIS in accordance with G.L. c. 140, §§ 128A and 128B.

And they have a bad SSL cert, so it yells about an untrusted connection when you try and go to it. Hurray!

 

[LT1MCSS]

It actually looks like its going to be easy to use as long as it works right. I think the only part that is a pain is for the seller needing thier PIN as well as their license number. There is a lot less info on the buyer side which is nice as well. I have said all they should need is the buyer and seller name and license number any. The rest of the stuff like employment, place of birth, etc etc is already in the MIRC system.

 

[Kevlar]

This Connection is Untrusted

You have asked Firefox to connect
securely to mircs.chs.state.ma.us, but
we can't confirm that your connection is secure.

Normally, when you try to connect securely,
sites will present trusted identification to prove that you are
going to the right place. However, this site's identity can't be verified.​

.

 

[umd0808]

It actually looks like its going to be easy to use as long as it works right. I think the only part that is a pain is for the seller needing thier PIN as well as their license number. There is a lot less info on the buyer side which is nice as well. I have said all they should need is the buyer and seller name and license number any. The rest of the stuff like employment, place of birth, etc etc is already in the MIRC system.

Apparently the buyer needs their PIN number as well. Copied from the FAQs:

Please have the following information on hand before beginning an E‐FA‐10 transaction:
1)Seller’s firearms license or license number
2)Seller’s firearms license PIN number
3)Buyer’s firearms license or license number
4)Buyer’s firearms license PIN number
5)Weapon information

 

[LT1MCSS]

Apparently the buyer needs their PIN number as well. Copied from the FAQs:

Please have the following information on hand before beginning an E‐FA‐10 transaction:
1)Seller’s firearms license or license number
2)Seller’s firearms license PIN number
3)Buyer’s firearms license or license number
4)Buyer’s firearms license PIN number
5)Weapon information

When i followed the link it does not have a section for the buyers PIN. They only have a section for their license number. Below is what it has. I don't have a transfer to process so I can't/won't continue.

Seller Information:
FID/LTC License No.:*
PIN:*

Buyer Information
FID/LTC License No.:*
Last Name:*
Date of Birth:*
(MMDDYYYY)

(OR)

State Firearms Dealer License No.:*

 

[IrradiatedBacon]

And they have a bad SSL cert, so it yells about an untrusted connection when you try and go to it. Hurray!

It doesn't appear to be a bad cert (although FF presents it that way), I just manually verified the trust and it looks okay. IIRC firefox requires you to have an installation of the intermediate cert between the end cert and the root. Other browsers (IE, Chrome, Safari) verify this without having it explicitly installed. It looks like they can fix this by having the full chain installed on their server (which I can't imagine they care too much about).

 

[umd0808]

When i followed the link it does not have a section for the buyers PIN. They only have a section for their license number. Below is what it has. I don't have a transfer to process so I can't/won't continue.

Seller Information:
FID/LTC License No.:*
PIN:*

Buyer Information
FID/LTC License No.:*
Last Name:*
Date of Birth:*
(MMDDYYYY)

(OR)

State Firearms Dealer License No.:*

I saw that too, but the FAQs say you need both. I don't know my PIN so I can't get past that page. Maybe you need the Buyer's PIN at the end to complete the transaction?

 

[drgrant]

coakley on 96 9 in a few minutes if anyone is feeling brave enough to ask herwhat the bleep is going on and how this is going to make anyone safer

She's going to give you a non answer. CHSB or whatever they call themselves now is not part of the AGs office.

-Mike

 

[Kevlar]

Buyer Information

>snip<

State Firearms Dealer License No.:*

That's odd, since transfers to FFLs don't require submission of a FA-10.

 

[glide]

It is strongly recommended that you require the buyer/transferee to produce a valid FID/LTC License Validation Certificate (obtained by the buyer/transferee using this system) prior to conducting a personal sale or transfer.

Huh?

 

[Len-2A Training]

I saw that too, but the FAQs say you need both. I don't know my PIN so I can't get past that page. Maybe you need the Buyer's PIN at the end to complete the transaction?

I've been assured by Jason Guida that for a "transfer", only the seller's PIN is needed.

Now if you are "registering" a firearm, it seems sensible that they would require the buyer's PIN since there is no seller info put on the e-FA-10 form.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

That's odd, since transfers to FFLs don't require submission of a FA-10.

But transfer FROM annFFL does.

 

[terraformer]

It is strongly recommended that you require the buyer/transferee to produce a valid FID/LTC License Validation Certificate (obtained by the buyer/transferee using this system) prior to conducting a personal sale or transfer.

Huh?

It's one of the options on the right hand side. Apparently someone wised up to the fact that PDs don't actually take the physical license from people when they revoke them. It was one of the stupidities of the licensing system here.

That said, this option to validate your license is broken. It spits out a password protected PDF and the password is not anything known to the license holder.

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

But transfer FROM annFFL does.

The FFL does this at the time of transfer, correct? This makes no
sense?



Also I was checking out the link and what's up with option #3 under the Registration section??

Use this option if 1) you are a Massachusetts resident and you obtained a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from out of state 2) you recently moved to Massachusetts and you wish to record ownership of a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun or 3) you possess a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun and there is no record of the weapon on file with the Firearms Records Bureau.

 

[rlee]

I just used the e-FA10 to register my out-of-state purchased AR-15.

It did require the PIN, and pulled all of my information correctly.
It asked for the seller's information, which I left blank.
The manufacturer (RRA) wasn't in the list but there was a place to enter it.

The submission was accepted and a single page FA10-like PDF file was generated from the 'Print' button.

A lot easier and less error-prone than the FA10 forms.

 

[drgrant]

But transfer FROM annFFL does.

Only to an MA licensed consumer. Outbounds or transfers to other MA FFLs never get FA-10ed.

-Mike

 

[Kevlar]

The FFL does this at the time of transfer, correct? This makes no sense?

Yes, and they've been submitting them electronically (via MIRCS) for years. It makes no sense to me either.

 

[cemorse]

The FFL does this at the time of transfer, correct? This makes no
sense?



Also I was checking out the link and what's up with option #3 under the Registration section??

Use this option if 1) you are a Massachusetts resident and you obtained a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from out of state 2) you recently moved to Massachusetts and you wish to record ownership of a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun or 3) you possess a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun and there is no record of the weapon on file with the Firearms Records Bureau.

It appears that FRB is overreaching a bit. Innocent mistake? Or?
Charlie

 

[drgrant]

It appears that FRB is overreaching a bit. Innocent mistake? Or?
Charlie

Yeah, they are.... they are full of s**t and move ins are fully exempt, for starters.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

The FFL does this at the time of transfer, correct? This makes no sense?

Also I was checking out the link and what's up with option #3 under the Registration section??

Use this option if 1) you are a Massachusetts resident and you obtained a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from out of state 2) you recently moved to Massachusetts and you wish to record ownership of a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun or 3) you possess a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun and there is no record of the weapon on file with the Firearms Records Bureau.

CJIS is a database entity . . . their job is to create and maintain databases. People with that "mission" WANT, NEED data. The more data, the better . . . and it also serves to justify their existence.

Understanding this, they would LIKE EVERYONE to REGISTER EVERYTHING . . . even if you just moved in and are exempt, have guns from before registration was required, etc.

There is NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT TO DO THIS, but they would "like you to do it". So they added it to their instructions.

Only to an MA licensed consumer. Outbounds or transfers to other MA FFLs never get FA-10ed.

-Mike

But Outbounds to an FFL (in MA or any other state) will ALWAYS show on your LTC. So, CJIS has setup a mechanism for you to sort-of "unregister" the gun by filing an e-FA-10 to show that you no longer own it.

Again, THERE IS NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT TO DO THIS, but for the paranoid or those that transfered to an FFL and never got a receipt, this will perhaps keep the police at bay if/when they come to confiscate everything they think you own.

It appears that FRB is overreaching a bit. Innocent mistake? Or?
Charlie

Yeah, they are.... they are full of s**t and move ins are fully exempt, for starters.

-Mike

Not a mistake. Over-reaching, yes. Helping satisfy the tin-foil crowd, yes.