Duble-Charge .38 in a .357

[Weerd Beard]

I'll be loading .38s and .357s soon. While reading about load data for .38 sp I'm a little intimidated by the small powder charges, and how large the case volume is.

Of course I'll take every precaution to keep all my cartridges uniform and safe, but I'm curious, if a double charge manages to find its way into one of my .38 loads and I shoot it in a .357, what are the possible outcomes?

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

KaBOOM! with possible destruction of the gun, and bodily injury or death from a mortal wound.

That has always haunted me also when loading .38spl. Take extra care with your powder charges and load slow. With the few .38s that I reload, I choose to hand measure and weigh each charge for better control and not use the progressive press.

 

[Lugnut]

Powder cop die... absolutely. Or even a lock out die.

 

[jhrosier]

... if a double charge manages to find its way into one of my .38 loads and I shoot it in a .357, what are the possible outcomes?

Any double charge that would damage a .38Spl revolver would probably do about the same damage to a .357.
Good handloading techniques will make a double charge extremely unlikely. An auto-indexing progressive press is the least likely to cause a problem.
I believe that Dillon has a powder sensor doo-dad that will warn you of an over or under charge.
If you are loading on a single station press, put your cases in the loading block mouth down, then charge them with powder one at a time.
In the old days, before plastic guns, handloaders would mark a pencil or wooden dowel to show the correct height for a single full charge and then carefully check every case in the loading block.

If the possibility of a double charge worries you a lot, select a slower burning powder that fills at least half the case. A double charge will be quite obvious.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Thanks. Honestly I'm not very concerned. I use a progressive press for handgun loads (and I invert all empty cases I load in my single stage) and I weigh out every 8th to 15th round just to make sure.

Just somthing that got me thinking.

 

[Cross-X]

What's the possible outcome of an accidental double charge?

Another great story to post on NES!

 

[TY43215]

It all depends on what your initial load is. I shoot 357Magnum loads from a 357 mag revolver but use 38spl cases in order to make major PF for USPSA and I have no problems.

Also, be careful with 38spl. Some light loads are worse than heavy loads pressure wise.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

What's the possible outcome of an accidental double charge?

Another great story to post on NES!

 

[depicts]

I'm not recommending this, but according to my Speer manual, a good load for .38 special, 158 grain hullets is 5.5 grains of Unique (I like the old powders) I've used this load a lot.

I also use a manual stated 11 grains of Unigue for my 158 grain .357 loads.

even with 11 grains there is a lot of room in the case, but it has never been dangerous in my Ruger GP 100s.

As jhrosier said, maybe try a slower burning powder that "CAN'T" double load without obviously seeing it.

Maybe compare some starting loads for .38 to some moderate loads for .357, and see if they don't run almost twice the same powder.

(BTW, 11 grains of Unique in a .357 is NOT a moderate load, it's a banger)

 

[Executive]

I've never loaded .38 but was wondering, if there is such a small amount of powder in the case, does it even contact the primer when sitting horizontally in the firearm? Is this even necessary?

(Still learning even after thousands of rounds reloaded mostly .45 and 9mm)

 

[Dirtypacman]

As I will be setting up my press for .38 within the next week or two I appreciate this thread and will check back.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I've never loaded .38 but was wondering, if there is such a small amount of powder in the case, does it even contact the primer when sitting horizontally in the firearm? Is this even necessary?

Good question. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. If you hold the gun pointed down before the first shot, you might notice a difference in report/recoil, after that, the recoil from the 1st shot will back the powder up against the primer. This "problem" is not limited to the .38 Special - any case that was originally designed for black powder will have extra capacity.

The effect on accuracy, recoil, etc depends on the powder. Some powders (like Titegroup) are not position-sensitive and very consistent when loading small charges in large cases.

There are rumors of detonations in rifle cartridges when small charges of slow burning powder were used. The theory is that the charge was laid out along the bottom of the case, and rather than undergoing a controlled burn, the primer was able to ignite the whole thing at once - resulting in a blown up gun.

The .38 Special is usually loaded with small amounts of fast burning propellant, so this type of detonation is unlikely.

 

[Chris]

My understanding is that the primer is designed to flash the entire case so that in theory, all the powder is ignited fully no matter where it resides. If you ever want to see this, load up a case with just a primer and set it off in a dark room and see just how far out of the muzzle the flash goes. This is why a primer only (i.e. squib) can push a bullet out of the case.

However, in practice, I'm sure the location of the powder can create slight variations. This is why when the IDPA does velocity checks on ammo, it states that the firearm should be turned muzzle up just prior to the Chrony shot to allow all the powder to reside at the rear of the case.

 

[TY43215]

My understanding is that the primer is designed to flash the entire case so that in theory, all the powder is ignited fully no matter where it resides. If you ever want to see this, load up a case with just a primer and set it off in a dark room and see just how far out of the muzzle the flash goes. This is why a primer only (i.e. squib) can push a bullet out of the case.

However, in practice, I'm sure the location of the powder can create slight variations. This is why when the IDPA does velocity checks on ammo, it states that the firearm should be turned muzzle up just prior to the Chrony shot to allow all the powder to reside at the rear of the case.

Some light wadcutter loads were known to squib occasionally due to the low volume of powder using Bulls Eye Powder. They also were known to give a big bang at times from over pressure proving there was a fine line where reduced power stopped and danger began

 

[vellnueve]

I load .38s and I am pretty anal about checking over each case to make sure there are no obvious double charges. I also check about once every 10.

 

[Jose]

I load .38s and I am pretty anal about checking over each case to make sure there are no obvious double charges. I also check about once every 10.

+1

I load in a single stage in batches of 50 cases and I look every single one of them over after dropping powder.

I also do not allow any interruptions during the powder dropping stage and if I am in the slightest doubt about a loading I drop it back into the hopper and do it over from there.

 

[MFP4073]

I have loaded thousands of 38 Spec to feed my four revolvers for practice, steel and ICORE shooting. I load on a Dillon 650. Never had a double charge with it. I just set my powder measure and go (checking every 20 or so).

I like 158 GR plated round nose over 4.6 gr 231. COL I use is 1.5025. Its a nice light to moderate steel load. Been using this one for 4 or 5 years now.

Have fun finding the recipee you like to shoot!

 

[vellnueve]

I use 3.4 grains of 231 with a 158 gr SWC. Light target loads, but they seem to do well for practice loads.

 

[Jose]

6.2 grains of HS-6 under a hard cast lead round nose flat point.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I use a bunch of different loads for .38 Special, mainly because I used to buy huge quantities of bullets on eBay whenever I saw a good deal.

Here are a few of my favorites:

• 125gr Montana Gold FMJ over 4.4 grains of Bullseye
• 148gr Hornady LHBWC over 3.0 grains of Titegroup (scary accurate)
• 148gr Rainier plated DEWC over 3.7 grains of W231
• 158gr LSWC over 3.0 grains of Clays (very clean for lead)
• 158gr LRN over 6.0 grains of Blue Dot (good long barrel load)

That 148 grain Hornady lead hollow-base wadcutter load might be the most accurate handgun load I've tried in any caliber.

 

[K.W.]

.38 special powder

Hello. There is the new powder from VihtaVuori / Finland. It is N-32C "Tin Star" speciel powder developed for Cowboy Acction Shooters for revolvers and single-action rifles. It has low bulk density(less free space in the case) and it burns very clean. The burningrate between N-320 and N-330. It is very fine for .38spl and .44mag. I use it silenser loads for .308 Win and .357 Rem maximum. Kauko.