Dry firing in apartment with no safe direction

[adweisbe]

The apartment I moved into does not have any usable safe directions. The outside wall is all glass, the inside walls all lead into halls or other apartments. There is no basement so the floor is a safe direction, but it isn't exactly comfortable or natural to place a target on the ground. I am looking to practice drawing, shooting on the move, and plain old dry firing. The only club I belong to does not allow drawing from a holster and there are no pits for moving and shooting.

Massad Ayoob has pics of body armor and phone books, but those only provide limited coverage and are both inconvenient and expensive. Ideally I would like to be able to set up courses of fire like I did in my old apartment.

Am I SOL? Maybe it's time to join Harvard. One other option I am entertaining is buying an airsoft pistol and using that. Are there any good ones that mimic the balance and feel of the 1911 or Sig 226/220? How are the triggers on those?

 

[M1911]

Airsoft is a good idea.

For dryfire practice, you can get a bullet resistant target to hang on the wall -- that would give you a safe direction. But they're expensive and give limited coverage that wouldn't provide enough protection for drawing, shooting on the move, etc.

 

[jhrosier]

Make doubly sure that there is NO LIVE AMMO in the room that you choose to practice. Load the gun with snap caps. After making sure to close the curtains, have at it. If you are as careful prepping the gun for dry fire as you are when prepping it for CCW, you'll never have a problem.

 

[Coyote33]

Don't do it. You are just setting yourself up for an accident. Treat every gun as if it were loaded. Never aim at anything you don't intend to shoot (or shoot through). You better just stick to doing this at the range.

 

[Jose]

Make doubly sure that there is NO LIVE AMMO in the room that you choose to practice. Load the gun with snap caps. After making sure to close the curtains, have at it. If you are as careful prepping the gun for dry fire as you are when prepping it for CCW, you'll never have a problem.

+1

 

[Admin]

+1

+2

The other Marines here will remember the snapping-in circles at Weapons & Field Training BTN. Large circles with recruits all aiming at the center dryfiring.

If you can make your firearm safe for storage, cleaning, and showing, you can make it safe to dry fire in your home.

 

[Jose]

Don't do it. You are just setting yourself up for an accident. Treat every gun as if it were loaded. Never aim at anything you don't intend to shoot (or shoot through). You better just stick to doing this at the range.

Nonsense. I dry fire at home in my basement and upstairs all the time. I even dry fire at objects outside my home down the street.

The key is going through a rigorous pre-dry firing routine to make absolutely sure that there is no live ammunition in the gun, on you, or anywhere near you.

Hell, I was at a tactical carbine shoot yesterday and we ran a hot range .

 

[Coyote33]

Sorry, but this just flies in the face of everything I've been taught regarding safe firearms handling.

 

[adweisbe]

I am thinking of the Western Arms S&W 1911 airsoft replica.
http://www.precisionairsoft.com/item987.htm
It weighs about 34 ounces which is darn close to the real deal. I get the impression that Western Arms is well respected in the airsoft community but I don't know much about them. However, the frame and slide are plastic, I am not sure if they will hold up in a holster...

It's true that a rigorous pre-dry firing routine could be enough to get me through one life ND free, but I ask myself "If I asked my neighbors for permission to do this would they say yes?" I would be violating 2 of the 3 rules and would be one mistake away from an ND.

 

[Hamar]

I've been dry firing since 1989, Never even came close to an accident. I even include making reloads in my dry firing regime. The catch is, after each draw and dry fire, I double check the chamber. I KNOW there is nothing there but I check it anyway. Rule #1 when dry firing in NO ammo allowed in the room you happen to be dry firing in. Use your common sence and you'll be fine.....

 

[sdavid]

I wouldn't ask for permission, just unload the sidearm, make sure there isn't any live rounds in the area and use snap caps or the orange training aids.

If you get to the point where this is unsettling for you then join a range where you can practice your draw.

Do you want your neighbors to know you have guns in the house? I don't want mine knowing. YMMV

 

[drgrant]

If I asked my neighbors for permission to do this would they say yes?" I would be violating 2 of the 3 rules and would be one mistake away from an ND.

Do you ask permission from your neighbors to own guns, too?
In this state 9 out of 10 of them would probably say "no".

I agree with the others.... check, double check, triple
check. Develop a sound procedure and stick with it. If it makes you feel
better, use one of the snap cap rubber chamber flag things that sits in your
chamber... it acts as both a snap cap and a chamber flag, as it protrudes
from the muzzle. You can see from BOTH ends of the gun that it is inserted
and there is nothing in the chamber.


-Mike

 

[adweisbe]

Do you want your neighbors to know you have guns in the house? I don't want mine knowing. YMMV

It was a figure of speech, I am trying to put myself in their shoes. If I wouldn't dry fire at my wife or dog, should I dry fire at them?

 

[Jose]

Sorry, but this just flies in the face of everything I've been taught regarding safe firearms handling.

Maybe you should exercise some critical thinking over what you're taught.

 

[Jose]

I
"If I asked my neighbors for permission to do this would they say yes?" I would be violating 2 of the 3 rules and would be one mistake away from an ND.

A) I don't care what my neighbors think about what I do with my guns.

B) The famous four rules were meant for the lowest common denominator.

Exercise some common sense and all will be well.

 

[jhrosier]

Come on guys, play nice.
The OP said he would rather not practice with a firearm for personal reasons.
The options are replica, airsoft, or pellet pistol.
I recommend a pellet pistol as a safe and cost effective and dual purpose substitute.

 

[adweisbe]

I would want this anyways just so I could shoot indoors. Awesome looking replica. It's a shame the trigger is DA, hopefully it is light.
Only 200 dollars! It should also fit my holster.

 

[jhrosier]

I would want this anyways just so I could shoot indoors. Awesome looking replica. It's a shame the trigger is DA, hopefully it is light.
Only 200 dollars! It should also fit my holster.

Looks good. The trigger is SA/DA, you have to manually cock the hammer for SA mode. Umarex makes the pellet pistols for most of the major firearms makers, such as Walther. I'm not sure about the Colts, but you should check with customer service at the place that I PMed you about. I've had the Umarex CP88 on my wish list for some time now...Maybe for this Christmas

 

[M1911]

Maybe you should exercise some critical thinking over what you're taught.

Rule No. 1 of handling firearms is always keep it pointed in a safe direction. A wood-and-plaster partition wall is not a safe direction.

Yes lots of people have gotten away with breaking that rule for years.

And some people haven't.

When I took LFI-1, Ayoob told a story about an unnamed gun writer colleague of his. This fellow always kept a 1911 in his desk drawer at home, in condition 3 (chamber empty). As Ayoob tells the story, this fellow was out hunting one day with his shotgun and the 1911 on his hip. He didn't see any deer, but did see a squirrel that he decided to take a shot at with his 1911. He didn't clear the chamber when reholstering and was very tired when he got back home that afternoon. He just put the now condition 1 1911 in his desk when he got home.

You can see where this is heading.

Several weeks later, this fellow was on the phone listening to something of a boor on the other end. He was very bored listening to the guy and decided to dry fire to pass the time while he listened. This fellow had a princess phone that was hard to keep between his shoulder and ear without using a hand. As he took the gun out of the drawer and dropped the magazine, he was going to check the chamber as he always did. But he knew the gun chamber was empty because it was always empty and his other hand was busy holding the phone. So he dry fired at the wall of his home office.

Unfortunately, the chamber was full. The noise inside his small home office was incredibly loud. He quickly hung up the phone and wondered what he was going to say when his wife ran in to check on him. But then she didn't run in.

He ran out of the office to their bedroom on the other side of the wall. His wife lay on the floor with a gunshot wound to the chest. He got there just in time for her to die in his arms.

Safe direction is important.

If someone points a gun at me, even if they say it is ok because the gun is unloaded, we're going to have a rather unfriendly discussion.

M1911
NRA Certified Firearms Instructor

 

[Jose]

Whatever.............

I'll continue my ways. I see no reason to change, despite the sob story.

 

[Coyote33]

Maybe you should exercise some critical thinking over what you're taught.

Done. This is why one should treat every gun as if it were loaded, never aim at anything you don't intend to shoot (or shoot through).

 

[Mass-diver]

No live ammo in the room, make sure the gun is unloaded. If you don't feel confident that you dry fire without shooting the wall you need to take a class and not even considering carrying

I've heard all sorts of sad, "I didn't know the gun was loaded stories" but most are told with the puchlines - "this is why no one should own guns." It's reckeless and stupid to pull the trigger without checking the chamber, but it's not reckless or stupid to dry fire in your home as long as you are careful: NO LIVE AMMO in the room, make sure the weapon is empty, and treat it as a formal session.

I would agree with Jose that this is a case for common sense.

 

[JellyFish]

I personally wouldn't do it in your situation. However, I also have found dry firing mostly pointless and I don't spend any time doing it. I see no real benefit to it.

Just my two cents, take it as you will. And be safe.

Whatever.............

I'll continue my ways. I see no reason to change, despite the sob story.

 

[Jose]

I also have found dry firing mostly pointless. I see no real benefit to it.

To each his own, to be sure. But dry firing is one big reason why I have gone from knowing absolutely nothing about rifle marksmanship three years ago to being an NRA Highpower Rifle Master and being almost 1/2 way to the CMP Distinguished Rifleman badge.

I snap in like crazy, particularly when trying to fix a problem with my shooting. It is far from a worthless exercise if one treats it as if it were the real thing.

 

[JellyFish]

As you wish, whatever works for you. More power to you.

But I wouldn't want to live in your apartment building on the day you are forgetful...

To each his own, to be sure. But dry firing is one big reason why I have gone from knowing absolutely nothing about rifle marksmanship three years ago to being an NRA Highpower Rifle Master and being almost 1/2 way to the CMP Distinguished Rifleman badge.

I snap in like crazy, particularly when trying to fix a problem with my shooting. It is far from a worthless exercise if one treats it as if it were the real thing.

 

[jhrosier]

... However, I also have found dry firing mostly pointless and I don't spend any time doing it. I see no real benefit to it.

My experiences with dry firing were markedly positive when I was firing the Steel Challenge matches. When and where it can be used, it allows the shooter to practice trigger control, sighting and transitions from target to target.
Visualization and dry firing are frequently used as training techniques by top shooters (and those aspiring to join them).

 

[M1911]

However, I also have found dry firing mostly pointless and I don't spend any time doing it. I see no real benefit to it.

I've found dry practice to be a great help in IDPA. I've seen a very large improvement in my shooting this year as a result, and just did really well in an IDPA match -- that's a far better performance than I would have been able to do at the beginning of this year.

 

[Admin]

I personally wouldn't do it in your situation. However, I also have found dry firing mostly pointless and I don't spend any time doing it. I see no real benefit to it.

JIM!!!!!! Dry firing is critical!!!!!!!! Every single national rifle and pistol champion has spent hours upon hours dry firing.

 

[JellyFish]

Maybe that's why I'm not one of them then?

JIM!!!!!! Dry firing is critical!!!!!!!! Every single national rifle and pistol champion has spent hours upon hours dry firing.

 

[The Goose]

Just had to toss my .02 in on this one. Luckily I have a safe place to dry fire, but I have always wondered about this topic.

Why is it that most, if not all, of us subscribe to the idea that "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" and yet somehow an almost mystical sense takes over such that we can never truly know if a gun is unloaded. Certainly I know about human error, but is it really true that an otherwise cautious and intelligent individual can never, ever know that a gun is unloaded.

Don't get me wrong I am not in any way suggesting that the rules not be followed. I am raising the question. I will continue to follow the rules of safe gun handling NO MATTER WHAT! Still is there really no way to safely dry fire when a safe direction cannot be had? Maybe there truly is no way, I don't know.

It would seem as an example. Unload gun and lock up ammo. Check, check and check again. Field strip gun and then go into another room and close the door. All ammo is locked up in the other room. Reassemble the gun. Check and check again. The gun is empty. It will not magically reload. It is empty. Now point it in the safest possible direction to dry fire. If all of these precautions were performed every time this would at least seem safe. Shortcutting any of the steps would be a big mistake. No shortcuts.

I won't do it because I do not need to. I just raise the question.