Drivers License to shoot?

[daceman63]

Bud Bottle......anyone can know that. It's no secret. As long as I am not breaking any laws I have no issue with the ATF or any other law enforcement agency knowing anything about me. In these threads people reveal what they own, what they carry, when they carry, where they carry.....everyone gives the info away for free. Now that someone is asking it's a big deal. Doesn't seem so to me. The info. is out there. If they wanted to spend a little effor they could get it anyway. Hell, they may already have it. You get a loan for a house and the lending agent takes a photocopy of your DL for their records. You can't drive a house.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Although you are largely correct . . . NOT all of us post a list, pictures, locations, security measures, what we carry and when, etc. on the Internet for the whole world to know.

So, you'd have no problem with BATFE getting copies of your tax returns, credit reports, all your medical records, etc.? [I will admit that any Fed/State agency can get all of the above with little difficulty if they really want them. That's still different than asking me to supply them.]

Fine if that suits you, but not all of us would go along.

I've always lived my life such that if the police come to my door, I know that they are there as my friends.

I know that the rules have changed but when I bought my house in 1974 and when I took out a home equity loan for some of the massive renovations in 2001, I purposely chose the local credit union. They hold their own paper, no tax returns, DL required. Not the best rates out there, but no BS/privacy invasions comes with a small price that I'm willing to pay. I don't even give out my SSN except for tax purposes.

Each person has to determine how much privacy they are willing to give up for their false sense of "security".

At Mansfield F&G you must log your name/time/badge number in the book every time you step foot on the property and when you leave. Purpose is in case of damage, time and potential sources can be narrowed down.

At Braintree R&P your electronic card-key logs you in. No log on way out and only guests need to sign in the book (but only if shooting). Reasoning is similar to Mansfield F&G.

At another club, which shall remain nameless, they had problems with their electronic key system and replaced it with a security system consisting of cameras and videotape at door and firing positions of indoor range (might also be on other locations that I'm unaware of). Rumor has it that tapes are reviewed by officers on a regular basis.

 

[daceman63]

They can get all that info you mentioned any time they want. I don't have my social on my DL so if someone wants to see my DL or have that number good luck to them. Like you I am at the mercy of these agencies to protect my privacy, as I was with the VA thing.

I don't feel any safer for them having that information. And I don't feel any safer with them not having it either. If it helps them catch a bad guy it's a small price for me to pay by providing it to them.

We all want to avoid that 9/11 thing from happening again. If someone has a better solution put it out there. I like to think the people involved are doing the best that they can. If the process gets abused then it needs to be addressed.

I still don't think it's asking for a lot.

 

[Len-2A Training]

We'll have to agree to disagree!

As long as ANYONE can walk across our borders, nothing else that they do will prevent another 9/11!

First you have to lock the barn door while there are still animals inside, then address the rest. We aren't about to do this as a nation.

All the sound-bytes about security at airports is a joke. Determined people can still bypass much of these security measures.

We're running on luck, and BATFE having DLs/SSNs/tax returns/etc. for those that shoot at a public range won't do anything to PREVENT an incident. It might give info on person AFTER the tragedy occurs.

AFS always required you to leave your AFS membership card (or I'll assume DL for non-members) while you were shooting there.

At an AR15 (eList) shoot out in Bellevue, WA we all had to sign a waiver form and provide name, address, etc. to use their public range. No problem with that, although I would not have been happy if copies went to BATFE.

 

[daceman63]

All of your points are valid and I do agree with your views on them. Maybe by them having the info won't help at all.....maybe it does. I dont know. I do know this...unless someone can tell me how providing my DL number will negatively affect me I can't see how it's a problem for them to have my DL number.

 

[Scrivener]

As long as I am not breaking any laws I have no issue with the ATF or any other law enforcement agency knowing anything about me.

Well aren't you the suitably subservient little minion. No doubt you'll happily allow warrantless, random searches; warrantless stops, seizures and interrogations, and national ID cards or even chips.

After all, you "have no issue with the ATF or any other law enforcement agency knowing anything about [you].

Besides, it will save the children, make our streets safe and prevent another 9/11. Got your number tattooed on your arm yet? It could help identify your body if you're in the next tunnel collapse......

 

[Len-2A Training]

Mod Hat On!

Scrivener,

Although I agree with the points you made, could you PLEASE make your points WITHOUT denigrating the individual?

Attack the issues, not the members!

Thank you.
The Management

 

[securityboy]

...unless someone can tell me how providing my DL number will negatively affect me I can't see how it's a problem for them to have my DL number.

I am with you 100%...I'd really have very little problem letting "them" take down my DL #...Come on "they" already have my info some where, be it hidden in some dealers bound book, on the white (formerly yellow) 4473 fed forms, plus all "our" FA10 forms...

Then throw in the MG's I own...w/ photos, finger print cards, CLEO sign off's...So giving out my DL# is nothing...

Perhaps some of you here will consider taking off the tin foil hat once and a while, once you realize "they" already have your info...

 

[daceman63]

if you think they don't have that info already or a way to get it short of you poviding it for them you may want to reconsider your thought process. You give up some of your privacy every time you walk out your front door.

Tax returns
credit card applications
credit card purchases
phone company
electric company
gas company
cell phone company
driver's license
LTC/FID
fishing license
hunting license
lease agreement
car purchase
any loan app.
health insurance
HR dept. at work


Anyone want to add to the list? Choose your battles wisely. So they want your DL.....big deal. The info is out there. You're not hiding from anyone.

 

[FPrice]

Perhaps some of you here will consider taking off the tin foil hat once and a while, once you realize "they" already have your info...

If "they" already have it, why are "they" asking for it again? Isn't your embedded micro-chip working?

I am not sure who is (edited to change from worse to) funnier. Those who insist it's no problem giving up every bit of personal information about one's self at the slightest whim of those in charge, or those who resist giving up any information for any reason.

But it sure makes for good reading for the rest of us.

 

[daceman63]

If "they" already have it, why are "they" asking for it again?

They can use the info for any one of a hundred or more reasons....

Could be they have all that info already but maybe they want to see where people are coming from to access this range. I thought I read earlier that it's public and you can rent stuff there. Maybe they are coming from New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, Canada....have diplomatic immunity...maybe they're seeing how many people who shoot there are organ donors....either way I'm sure if they don't have your DL they can get it pretty easily. This could just be a more cost effective way for them to do it. Could all be a matter of economics.

 

[securityboy]

If "they" already have it, why are "they" asking for it again?

Because perhaps they aren't looking for "us" this time...

Actually I'm not one who likes to give out too much info, but if it is to an "someone" who already has it I don't put up much fight, and I know ATF has plenty of my info...

Isn't your embedded micro-chip working?

Course its not working, god damned microwave oven and cell phone keep shorting it out...when they aren't too busy giving me cancer...but I tell ya I wish they'd stop listing in on my conversations through my tooth fillings...

 

[Scrivener]

Could be they have all that info already but maybe they want to see where people are coming from to access this range. I thought I read earlier that it's public and you can rent stuff there. Maybe they are coming from New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, Canada....have diplomatic immunity...maybe they're seeing how many people who shoot there are organ donors....

And how is ANY of that within the lawful province of BATFE? In what way, shape, manner or form are diplomats, organ donors or the rest of the rationalizations set forth above remotely related to BATFE's jurisdiction?

Unless and until you can prove that, you merely excuse yet another abuse of power by an agency notorious for them.

 

[daceman63]

Well...I agree...the organ donaors might be a bit of a stretch but Securityboy said it best...."Because perhaps they aren't looking for "us" this time..."as for seeing who is coming from where as a means of tracking the bad guys.

 

[Patriot]

While I realize it might be futile to try to deny requested "information", it
feels great doing it. I am recovering from a hip operation and the
visiting nurse requested my SSN. I promptly told her that it was none of
her business and she had no business requesting it. Now she got pissed
at me for calling her on it and said never mind, returned to her laptop, and
proclaimed that she had it anyway (which I believe that she did) presumably
to let me know that resistance is futile, but it felt really good to tell her to
stuff it at the time. Obviously, I take my pleasure out of the little things in
life.

TBP

 

[daceman63]

I deny my social as much as possible as well. But for loan apps and such they need it to do credit checks. "A little off"....But my mother is coming home Saturday. She broke her hip and just had the surgery. She will have a visiting nurse...I will tell her to deny her social if they ask. Thanks for the tip. I hope you feel better.

 

[FPrice]

Is there anyone who doubts that your SSAN has become your national ID?

 

[dwarven1]

Have any of you ever noticed that it says on your SS card that it's NOT to be used for ID?

 

[FPrice]

Have any of you ever noticed that it says on your SS card that it's NOT to be used for ID?

I believe that statement refers to the card itself. However you are unalterably linked to the number.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I deny my social as much as possible as well. But for loan apps and such they need it to do credit checks. "A little off"....But my mother is coming home Saturday. She broke her hip and just had the surgery. She will have a visiting nurse...I will tell her to deny her social if they ask. Thanks for the tip. I hope you feel better.

I have refused to provide SSN for loan applications and I've yet to be turned down. I can also count on one hand the total number of loans that I've had over my 59 years on this earth. I just carefully pick who I do business with and tell them "that is my terms". I also only borrow money from banks (that's there business, not some pimply assed kid working in Best Buy trying to get me to take out credit from them), so if they really, truly need it they can get it from my savings/checking account info.

You can easily do a credit, criminal, medical records, etc. check WITHOUT the SSN! Name, address (assuming you don't move every 3 months), DOB is more than adequate to get all the info on you that they want.

We NEVER give it to any medical provider! It is NOT our medical insurance number . . . and hopefully the gov't will smarten up before we're old enough that we have to get Medicare (I believe that they still use SSN and you don't have any recourse).

 

[Scrivener]

Well...I agree...the organ donaors might be a bit of a stretch but Securityboy said it best...."Because perhaps they aren't looking for "us" this time..."as for seeing who is coming from where as a means of tracking the bad guys.

Whistling in the dark.

Anyone who thinks gun owners AREN'T suspect in the government's eyes is clearly unaware of its activities, particularly those of BATFE abusing its authority at gun shows in VA and PA.

The "not looking for us" drivel is the same litany a certain German pastor noted in his peice on the utter failure of Germans to resist tyranny:

"When they came for the Jews, I did nothing because I wasn't a Jew..."

 

[Scrivener]

While I realize it might be futile to try to deny requested "information", it feels great doing it. I am recovering from a hip operation and the visiting nurse requested my SSN. I promptly told her that it was none of her business and she had no business requesting it.

Damn smart move! A number of people have suffered greatly from identity theft facilitated by their mindless provision of the wholly-irrelevant SSN to hospitals.

In one major case, a nurse's aide took the SSNs off charts (where such use is wholly inappropriate) and sent them to a co-conspirator several states away. In exchange, she received SSNs from patients in THAT state. Each criminal then used the SSNs to create new credit cards in each patient's name, running up thousands of dollars on each.

"Them motorcycles sure was fast!"

"Yep - and they was FREE ! "

But hey; it's all part of the War On Terror and it's our patriotic duty to slavishly obey............

 

[dd]

DL to Shoot?

And another thing --- every time you give in to those who want to collect more data on you it is contributing to additional costs for that service, whether it be medical, financial, or whatever. And government is obsessed with accumulating data!

dd (retired w/37 yrs federal govt service)

p.s. When a LEO looks up your non-SSN drivers license number, they find your SSN also listed in the system.

 

[highlander]

There was a case recently of an indvidual that the IRS said owed an outrageous tax bill after much fallderaall it turned out 25 illegals were using their SS number As far as I am concerned the government knows too much about me just by knowing my name