DoD panel calls for radical retirement overhaul

[Admin]

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2...calls-for-radical-retirement-overhaul-072511/

Interesting.

 

[In God We Trust]

So no more being retired for life at age 38? That always seemed to me to be the only reason to re-enlist beyond the initial contract. It is a bit gererous and due to the state of the country, should probably be overhauled. My beef is that while the TSP is a nice 401k type plan, it is still vulnerable to all the market manipulation and inflation just like any other self directed plan.

Under current military retirement, troops get an annual cost of living increase, but the TSP does not once they start collecting. They will have to watch the value of thier TSP saving dwindle to zero just like the rest of us. I still say do it. The military is supposed to be a service to your country, not a life long welfare system.

I anxiously await all the SS and public union bashers to out themselves as hypocrites by flaming me for "speaking out against the troops".

 

[dustoff22]

The military is supposed to be a service to your country, not a life long welfare system.

Explain that please.

My presumption of your statement is that because I served for 24 years and collect military retirement I am a welfare recipient?

 

[In God We Trust]

No. But you are the beneficiary of an overly generous retirement system that is a severe burden on the taxpayers. You know what I am saying I'm sure. I would prefer that they change over to the system the reserve guys get. I should not have to pay for a physically able guy younger than me to be retired at 38 years old.

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[Reyn]

i would rather pay our service members for their service, than the low life career welfare pos that breed other low life career welfare pos.

 

[coachjpg]

No. But you are the beneficiary of an overly generous retirement system that is a severe burden on the taxpayers. You know what I am saying I'm sure. I would prefer that they change over to the system the reserve guys get. I should not have to pay for a physically able guy younger than me to be retired at 38 years old.

Military retirement benefits are part of the meager compensation package we provide to our veterans. No one can live off their military retirement, unless they move to a third world country.

Retired from the military does not mean retired from working. It means you go out and find a civilian job so you can pay your bills & put your kids through college.

If you want to look for wasteful government spending, look at the profits outfits like Haliburton pull in from government contracts. We've had generations of inbreeding where rich companies buy politicians who write laws that benefit rich companies. The money we spend on our veterans pales compared to the profits these big contractors rake in. It's obscene.

I'm not retired military, but I worked on DARPA contracts for 25 years, so I've had some exposure to all this. Our vets earn every penny of their compensation, including the retirement benefits. Remember, a substantial portion of our active duty armed forces personnel qualify for food stamps, their income is so low.

We pay far too much to our government contractors, and far too little to our people in uniform. It's easy to see who owns the politicians.

 

[dustoff22]

No. But you are the beneficiary of an overly generous retirement system

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Overly generous? I wouldn't go that far. A retired USPS mail carrier makes more in retirement than do I with more perks. I retired as Major/04.

Your line of thinking would indicate that you begrudge cops and firefighters for retiring before you as well. Life is about choices, maybe if you had the agates you would have chosen another career field. Were that the case you wouldn't be jealously whining about it.

 

[In God We Trust]

Overly generous? I wouldn't go that far. A retired USPS mail carrier makes more in retirement than do I with more perks. I retired as Major/04.

Your line of thinking would indicate that you begrudge cops and firefighters for retiring before you as well. Life is about choices, maybe if you had the agates you would have chosen another career field. Were that the case you wouldn't be jealously whining about it.

Sounds like guilt speaking to me. BTW you have no idea what I do or have done for a living. The fact that you call common sense criticism "jealous whining" makes you sound like an idiot. Enjoy your retirement.

 

[dustoff22]

Sounds like guilt speaking to me. BTW you have no idea what I do or have done for a living. The fact that you call common sense criticism "jealous whining" makes you sound like an idiot. Enjoy your retirement.

Not even a speck of guilt. Scratch the "jealous whining" as it seems to have hit a nerve. Oh, thanks for my retirement as meager as it is.

 

[Skysoldier]

Sounds like guilt speaking to me. BTW you have no idea what I do or have done for a living. The fact that you call common sense criticism "jealous whining" makes you sound like an idiot. Enjoy your retirement.

You Sir...are a f'ing idiot!

Have you ever served in a job that paid you 123 bucks a month? I did, back in the 1960's!

I volunteered to jump out of planes for another measly 55 bucks a month.

Then I went to Vietnam for another measly 55 bucks a month of Combat Pay!

I got wounded my first time in Vietnam, and spent a f'ing year in the hospital!

F You IDIOT!

Sure, I got my clothing provided, and my room and board.....the shittiest food I ever ate BTW!

And I didn't retire.....I only did 7 years........I don't get a damn thing from the government...I don't get VA Money.....nothing!

You suck! Have you ever even served in the Military?

 

[In God We Trust]

You Sir...are a f'ing idiot!

Have you ever served in a job that paid you 123 bucks a month? I did, back in the 1960's!

I volunteered to jump out of planes for another measly 55 bucks a month.

Then I went to Vietnam for another measly 55 bucks a month of Combat Pay!

I got wounded my first time in Vietnam, and spent a f'ing year in the hospital!

F You IDIOT!

Sure, I got my clothing provided, and my room and board.....the shittiest food I ever ate BTW!

What does any of that have to do with the sustainability of military retirements, public union retirements and social security benefits? It's easy to sit back and say "FU" but that doesn't keep our country on the tracks. Yeah, what do you care as long as you get your beer money every month, right?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

No. But you are the beneficiary of an overly generous retirement system that is a severe burden on the taxpayers. You know what I am saying I'm sure. I would prefer that they change over to the system the reserve guys get. I should not have to pay for a physically able guy younger than me to be retired at 38 years old.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Unless, of course, that 38 year old make the decision to re-enlist because the retirement offer was made as part of the deal.

It's fair game to change the offer for new employees; less so changing it for persons who have given years of their live working towards a promised pension.

If employees accept a deal without the current level of benefits, the market will have spoken. If they don't, the market will also have spoken. There is far too much attempting to figure out what jobs are "worth" and far to little attention given to the free market.

 

[dustoff22]

BTW you have no idea what I do or have done for a living.

You probably can't say because it's classified. Might you be yet another Seal Team 6 member?

I really don't give a flying f*&k what you do or did. It's totally irrelevant. Your accusation of me and virtually anyone who served and collects retirement being "lifelong welfare recipients" is an affront which I take personally. Take your size 7 1/2 Bass Weejans and put 'em where the sun don't shine mr. ball-less.

You're the idiot.

 

[n1oty]

You Sir...are a f'ing idiot!

Have you ever served in a job that paid you 123 bucks a month? I did, back in the 1960's!

I volunteered to jump out of planes for another measly 55 bucks a month.

Then I went to Vietnam for another measly 55 bucks a month of Combat Pay!

I got wounded my first time in Vietnam, and spent a f'ing year in the hospital!

F You IDIOT!

Sure, I got my clothing provided, and my room and board.....the shittiest food I ever ate BTW!

And I didn't retire.....I only did 7 years........I don't get a damn thing from the government...I don't get VA Money.....nothing!

You suck! Have you ever even served in the Military?

Sky, don't you miss the SOS??

 

[Skysoldier]

What does any of that have to do with the sustainability of military retirements, public union retirements and social security benefits? It's easy to sit back and say "FU" but that doesn't keep our country on the tracks. Yeah, what do you care as long as you get your beer money every month, right?

Let me tell you something a**h***!...I am 63 years old, and I work for a living!

I don't collect Social Security.......and I buy my own ****ing beer......I still say **** you!

 

[wolf223]

i've been in 16 years. i've seen this issue brought up at least every 2-3 years, just like a new M4 and M9 platforms.

it always gets shot down. the military has a hard enough time keep mid-career NCOs and Officers as it is... um yeah, take away that retirement and you'll see what happens. the majority of service members are NOT the specialty peeps who get special pays (i.e. Doctors, Aviators ect), they are trigger pullers and support who's only incentive to stay past 8 years is that retirement / quality of life....

take away that retirement and you'll have a retention problem overnight. remember folks, it's just a numbers game. no one cares. no one pays an arabic linguist extra because they like them. it's about keeping capabilities in uniform.

just IMO, IF were to actually go through, the first ones to bail will be mid-career Officers and NCOs... followed by your specialty folks... or vice versa

 

[ochmude]

What does any of that have to do with the sustainability of military retirements, public union retirements and social security benefits? It's easy to sit back and say "FU" but that doesn't keep our country on the tracks. Yeah, what do you care as long as you get your beer money every month, right?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I definitely hear you about overly generous public union retirements, but you really can't put them in the same category as military retirements. First off, military retirements are FAR less generous. Secondly, service members genuinely earn the benefit. I'm not saying that police officers don't earn their retirement, but there's a difference. In law enforcement academies you're taught that the number 1 rule is to go home at the end of your shift. In military basic training, you are taught, over and over, the following:

"I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

That means that you join and serve with the full knowledge that you might be ordered to do something from which you are not even expected to survive. If you spend 20 years with that weight hanging over you, I personally feel you have earned a meager stipend. Again, though, you are free to feel differently.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Have you ever served in a job that paid you 123 bucks a month?

With out getting into a spitting match with everyone here, I am going to offer my experience.

I can tell you that when I got out of the Navy 2 and a half years ago, as an E5 with 5 years, BAH, and sea pay, I was clearing somewhere around 48k a year. That's not bad for 25 year old kid to make some plans and investments with.

I am impartial either way, a paycheck every month for the rest of my life wasn't enough to keep me in, it is for some, and it isn't less honorable to collect it. However, look at it from this perspective. A lot of guys I know, retire at 20-25 years and then move into a gov job (the mil seems to really push that sort of thing), so now you have a guy collecting a pension (that he earned, more so then any other public worker), working on the tax payers dime, and logging hours until he hits his second pension.

Unless, of course, that 38 year old make the decision to re-enlist because the retirement offer was made as part of the deal.

It's fair game to change the offer for new employees; less so changing it for persons who have given years of their live working towards a promised pension.

If employees accept a deal without the current level of benefits, the market will have spoken. If they don't, the market will also have spoken. There is far too much attempting to figure out what jobs are "worth" and far to little attention given to the free market.

This.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I definitely hear you about overly generous public union retirements, but you really can't put them in the same category as military retirements. First off, military retirements are FAR less generous. Secondly, service members genuinely earn the benefit. I'm not saying that police officers don't earn their retirement, but there's a difference. In law enforcement academies you're taught that the number 1 rule is to go home at the end of your shift. In military basic training, you are taught, over and over, the following:

"I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

That means that you join and serve with the full knowledge that you might be ordered to do something from which you are not even expected to survive. If you spend 20 years with that weight hanging over you, I personally feel you have earned a meager stipend. Again, though, you are free to feel differently.

And this.

 

[Martlet]

Infantry gets to retire? Sweet!

 

[In God We Trust]

Unless, of course, that 38 year old make the decision to re-enlist because the retirement offer was made as part of the deal.

It's fair game to change the offer for new employees; less so changing it for persons who have given years of their live working towards a promised pension.

If employees accept a deal without the current level of benefits, the market will have spoken. If they don't, the market will also have spoken. There is far too much attempting to figure out what jobs are "worth" and far to little attention given to the free market.

Thats what I meant about changing to the reserve and guard model retirement ssytem. Change for new guys, not those currently enlisted or collecting.

You probably can't say because it's classified. Might you be yet another Seal Team 6 member?

I really don't give a flying f*&k what you do or did. It's totally irrelevant. Your accusation of me and virtually anyone who served and collects retirement being "lifelong welfare recipients" is an affront which I take personally. Take your size 7 1/2 Bass Weejans and put 'em where the sun don't shine mr. ball-less.

You're the idiot.

You are the one that so ignorantly brought up my experience in your previous post. I am a veteran honorably discharged and even that has nothing to do with anything. Unlike you and skysoldier, I don't bring up my past service in every post I make looking for atta boys and admiration. The fact that you feel like your service entitles you to something besides gratitude is an insult to all who have honorable served. You are attacking me instead of my argument probably because you know I am right. I'm sure an 0-4 can manage to reason out why the current system is going to bankrupt our country

Let me tell you something a**h***!...I am 63 years old, and I work for a living!

I don't collect Social Security.......and I buy my own ****ing beer......I still say **** you!

Isn't that cute? It's trying to communicate with us.

 

[mass]

Start with congress and career beaurocrats then talk to me about service men and women.

 

[P-14]

Again, though, you are free to feel differently.

And those who served gave him his freedom of speech by their sacrifice. Military personnel earn their retirement benefits because they put it on the line for the rest of us. We owe our freedom to all of them, past and present.

 

[In God We Trust]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I definitely hear you about overly generous public union retirements, but you really can't put them in the same category as military retirements. First off, military retirements are FAR less generous. Secondly, service members genuinely earn the benefit. I'm not saying that police officers don't earn their retirement, but there's a difference. In law enforcement academies you're taught that the number 1 rule is to go home at the end of your shift. In military basic training, you are taught, over and over, the following:

"I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."

That means that you join and serve with the full knowledge that you might be ordered to do something from which you are not even expected to survive. If you spend 20 years with that weight hanging over you, I personally feel you have earned a meager stipend. Again, though, you are free to feel differently.

In a perfect world, yes I agree with you. The problem is that we can't afford to keep doing it. There have to be massive cuts in spending and DoD is one of the biggest money pits. There has to be serious cuts or there is going to be no country to serve in another 20 years.

 

[mark056]

The Berlin Airlift, The Korean War, Lebanon 1958, the Viet Nam War, the Dominican Republic,Panama, Desert Storm, 2nd Gulf War... this is what the US Military has engaged in since 1948 (the year I was born). A little different from writing traffic tickets (please don't compare us to the Cops) or sitting in a cubicle in corporate America esp in the early and middle 80's when people in the private sector were making money hand over fist.

Let's see, in 1968 when I first enlisted, I think I made a whopping 65 dollars per month.

IGWT I understand where you are coming from. but in this case you used some less than optimal choices of words. Please don't ever compare military service with the private sector or with civilian public sector employees.

First, would you live in a barracks with three other roomates, or in an open bay? (free housing), would you like to eat all your meals 7 days per week in the Mess Hall? (free meals) Military Medicine can range from world class to third world, depending on the luck of the draw, and no you do not get a personal physician. (free medical care).

It wasn't until after WWII that the 20 year retirement was instituted. Prior to that you had to serve 30 years. When it became apparent that the US would need a large standing military to counter the USSR, the Pentagon recognized that the 20 year retirement would be an incentive, and also too since war is a young persons game, get people out before they literally became "dead wood." Remember several things: military salaries were low and even officer's salaries were not on par with civilians counterparts. Remember too, that military pensions are based on base pay, not the total compensation (housing allowance, separate rations etc) Approximately one third of a military monthly compensation is in allowances. Base pay is lower.

The average E7 (which is an average enlisted retirement grade) retires on less than $30K per year, hardly a generous package.

I don't think you have done your homework and really researched just how generous military retirements are.

You private sector people gave up your defined pension plans when the private sector decided to go the 401K route. One of the arguments was that you can build a portfolio that would pay you more than your defined pension plan. Well it scares the living crap out of me that the government might get into the 401K business.

I will be the first to agree that there has to be some kind of pension reform, and various schemes have been proposed. I wouldn't be totally adverse to a defined pension benefit starting at age 50 or 55 (like the Reserves), I wouldn't be happy with it, though.

Let's start with congressional pensions first.

Let me ask you this: what do you think is a fair pension for twenty or more years of service?

 

[ochmude]

In a perfect world, yes I agree with you. The problem is that we can't afford to keep doing it. There have to be massive cuts in spending and DoD is one of the biggest money pits. There has to be serious cuts or there is going to be no country to serve in another 20 years.

There need to be painfully serious cuts. Trust me, I really get where you're coming from. However, I feel that those cuts should be made in other areas before putting military retirement on the chopping block. I'm not saying that it's a sacred benefit and even considering to cut it is high treason, but would you at least agree that there are better places to start trimming the fat?

 

[Skysoldier]

I am not dealing with this punk a**h*** anymore!

 

[pdm]

There need to be painfully serious cuts. Trust me, I really get where you're coming from. However, I feel that those cuts should be made in other areas before putting military retirement on the chopping block. I'm not saying that it's a sacred benefit and even considering to cut it is high treason, but would you at least agree that there are better places to start trimming the fat?

Yeah, I'd start with canning all retirement benefits (pensions, health care, cash, whatever) for elected office holders and political appointees. It's supposed to be public service, not a lifetime feeding trough for jet-setting back and forth to DC. But I have to admit, I don't like the idea of someone getting a "retirement" check while they're working full-time. Seems wrong to me, but YMMV.

 

[In God We Trust]

There need to be painfully serious cuts. Trust me, I really get where you're coming from. However, I feel that those cuts should be made in other areas before putting military retirement on the chopping block. I'm not saying that it's a sacred benefit and even considering to cut it is high treason, but would you at least agree that there are better places to start trimming the fat?

Absolutely. I think congress should start by forfeiting all pay and bennies until the budget is balanced and the defecit is under control.

Maybe you guys are misunderstanding me. I feel that for what the combat troops do, there is not enough money in the world. Of course they don't get "enough" for getting shot and maimed or killed. The problem is that there will never be enough money to actually pay them what they deserve and thats why it is "service to your country".

I also think that the poor shmuck who worked 40 years in a factory should get the SS money back that he paid into the system, that doesn't mean that there is going to be any there when he retires.

 

[In God We Trust]

I am not dealing with this punk a**h*** anymore!

Promise? Why are you so angry dude?

 

[In God We Trust]

IGWT I understand where you are coming from. but in this case you used some less than optimal choices of words. Please don't ever compare military service with the private sector or with civilian public sector employees.
First, would you live in a barracks with three other roomates, or in an open bay? (free housing), would you like to eat all your meals 7 days per week in the Mess Hall? (free meals) Military Medicine can range from world class to third world, depending on the luck of the draw, and no you do not get a personal physician. (free medical care).

Let me ask you this: what do you think is a fair pension for twenty or more years of service?

I did live in the barracks man. 3 guys in my room and a group latrine down the hall. I also got a nasty infection from walter reed medical center's free care.

As I posted above, it's not about what the troops should get for a retirement, it's how much the country can afford. Everyone collecting a check from the .gov is going to have to take a cut or we are screwed as a nation.

If I were in charge, I would propose a 100% tax exempt TSP and a retirement at age 60 like the reservists get.