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DoD panel calls for radical retirement overhaul

xtry51 said:
Lol, nice post.

My overall tax position is every person with a job should pay the same percentage of tax on their income and there should be no deductions period. What ever they take (and I'm really only willing to give 5% max to federal gov't) they keep and use. There's no tax returns, no paperwork, no how do I get a lawyer to find loopholes. You employer takes the 1-5% and hands it over to uncle sam, done.

Of course in my wonderful world of sunshine and unicorns, the only gov't programs are defense, border security and the post office. There are no other federal laws/programs period. Oh, and the post office only delivers things that fit in a standard mailbox, they're around to provide a very basic support of physical communication and exchange of ideas, not commercial goods transportation. I wouldn't have a problem with even restricting them to letters/postcards only.

ETA: You're example of the child and family does not work when applied to a gov't structure. People who get money from the gov't in general on average remain dependent on .gov their entire lives and never pay it back. If you need proof of this go look at the IRS website and pull up the total $ donated willingly. You'll see no one ever gives back willingly. The point is gov't should only do those things that protect people's pursuit of happiness. The gov't should never be in the business of granting happiness, because the only way a gov't can do that is by taking from those who have and giving to those that don't. There's already a word for that, it's called communism.
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I invite you to this thread!

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-Bigot-and-I-need-help!?p=1975591#post1975591
 
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xtry51 said:
Apparently. If wanting to be able to keep what you earn is what people like you are calling stupid these days, then yes I am. For some strange reason I enjoy other people not taking what I have worked to have.
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Welcome to my world......you greedy little bastard![rofl][rofl][rofl]

And what the hell are you doing posting in the Military Bubba's forum anyway...you don't belong here!
 
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Skysoldier said:
Welcome to my world......you greedy little bastard![rofl][rofl][rofl]

And what the hell are you doing posting in the Military Bubba's forum anyway...you don't belong here!
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I can move the thread to off-topic or I can leave it here since there is no requirement to post your opinion in this forum.


As long as you get yours right??? As long as you get yours...
 
xtry51 said:
Lol, nice post.

My overall tax position is every person with a job should pay the same percentage of tax on their income and there should be no deductions period. What ever they take (and I'm really only willing to give 5% max to federal gov't) they keep and use. There's no tax returns, no paperwork, no how do I get a lawyer to find loopholes. You employer takes the 1-5% and hands it over to uncle sam, done.

Of course in my wonderful world of sunshine and unicorns, the only gov't programs are defense, border security and the post office. There are no other federal laws/programs period. Oh, and the post office only delivers things that fit in a standard mailbox, they're around to provide a very basic support of physical communication and exchange of ideas, not commercial goods transportation. I wouldn't have a problem with even restricting them to letters/postcards only.

ETA: You're example of the child and family does not work when applied to a gov't structure. People who get money from the gov't in general on average remain dependent on .gov their entire lives and never pay it back. If you need proof of this go look at the IRS website and pull up the total $ donated willingly. You'll see no one ever gives back willingly. The point is gov't should only do those things that protect people's pursuit of happiness. The gov't should never be in the business of granting happiness, because the only way a gov't can do that is by taking from those who have and giving to those that don't. There's already a word for that, it's called communism.
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Okay, so considering I agree completely with this entire post, I'm not sure if I have anything else to debate with you. So, um, I guess we shake hands now?

BTW, with regard to the statement in bold, that reminds me of something I used to often say to the residents of the section 8 housing in Springfield where I worked security. You have the right to pursue happiness. It's not my f***ing problem that you're too lazy to actually catch it.
 
btw: this topic comes up "dot-mil" forums all the time too. [rofl]


its usually a younger soldier bitching about his pay and having to live in the barracks. [smile]
 
xtry51 said:
My overall tax position is every person with a job should pay the same percentage of tax on their income and there should be no deductions period. What ever they take (and I'm really only willing to give 5% max to federal gov't) they keep and use. There's no tax returns, no paperwork, no how do I get a lawyer to find loopholes. You employer takes the 1-5% and hands it over to uncle sam, done.
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Sorry if I derail this thread, but I'd actually be happy with a repeal of the 16th Amendment altogther.

I'm with Rick Perry on this one. The direct taxation of citizens at the beginning of the Progessive era was the root cause of a federal .gov that is out of control, not just as related to spending, but as to power. Direct taxation gives Congress too much money, so much so that it can use money hold a carrot over the heads of states to force them to pass laws that it can't pass on it's own due to Article I's limited scope. The end result has been runaway spending, social programs, and frequent usurptation of enumerated powers.
 
OfficerObie59 said:
Sorry if I derail this thread, but I'd actually be happy with a repeal of the 16th Amendment altogther.

I'm with Rick Perry on this one. The direct taxation of citizens at the beginning of the Progessive era was the root cause of a federal .gov that is out of control, not just as related to spending, but as to power. Direct taxation gives Congress too much money, so much so that it can use money hold a carrot over the heads of states to force them to pass laws that it can't pass on it's own due to Article I's limited scope. The end result has been runaway spending, social programs, and frequent usurptation of enumerated powers.
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Amen, brother.
 
ochmude said:
Okay, so considering I agree completely with this entire post, I'm not sure if I have anything else to debate with you. So, um, I guess we shake hands now?

BTW, with regard to the statement in bold, that reminds me of something I used to often say to the residents of the section 8 housing in Springfield where I worked security. You have the right to pursue happiness. It's not my f***ing problem that you're too lazy to actually catch it.
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Amen
 
OfficerObie59 said:
Sorry if I derail this thread, but I'd actually be happy with a repeal of the 16th Amendment altogther.

I'm with Rick Perry on this one. The direct taxation of citizens at the beginning of the Progessive era was the root cause of a federal .gov that is out of control, not just as related to spending, but as to power. Direct taxation gives Congress too much money, so much so that it can use money hold a carrot over the heads of states to force them to pass laws that it can't pass on it's own due to Article I's limited scope. The end result has been runaway spending, social programs, and frequent usurptation of enumerated powers.
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Yes but don't forget the and...
The fed allows for even more spending than could ever be possible without fiat money.

Sent via Tapatalk. Please excuse typos.
 
OfficerObie59 said:
Sorry if I derail this thread, but I'd actually be happy with a repeal of the 16th Amendment altogther.

I'm with Rick Perry on this one. The direct taxation of citizens at the beginning of the Progessive era was the root cause of a federal .gov that is out of control, not just as related to spending, but as to power. Direct taxation gives Congress too much money, so much so that it can use money hold a carrot over the heads of states to force them to pass laws that it can't pass on it's own due to Article I's limited scope. The end result has been runaway spending, social programs, and frequent usurptation of enumerated powers.
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Well said...

Even if you accept direct income taxation, it must not be pre-tax deducted so that people see it come out of their accounts... A great deal of evil has been done to Americans because of this myth of "government money" that comes from the nature of pre-tax deduction and people not thinking of such taxes as "their money."
 
cekim said:
Well said...

Even if you accept direct income taxation, it must not be pre-tax deducted so that people see it come out of their accounts... A great deal of evil has been done to Americans because of this myth of "government money" that comes from the nature of pre-tax deduction and people not thinking of such taxes as "their money."
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If people had to write that check every year, there would be an armed revolution on April 16th. Very few in this country are responsible enough to save even $10 from their pay every week, let alone 10 grand to give to the .gov. It would be the end of America as we know it.
 
In God We Trust said:
If people had to write that check every year, there would be an armed revolution on April 16th. Very few in this country are responsible enough to save even $10 from their pay every week, let alone 10 grand to give to the .gov. It would be the end of America as we know it.
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Elections should be held on the 16th too.
 
I joined the military to get out of the poverty being born to selfish, liberal, alcoholic self-absorbed ‘parents’ had confined me. I wanted out and college was impossible. So the military was my only option besides jail. I chose wisely. A mere 14 days after high school graduation I reported to boot camp. I proudly served for 22 years and, in my opinion, had a darn successful career. During those years we were stationed at 18 different units and I spent over five years away from my family serving in isolated overseas stations. My oldest learned how to walk and talk while I was stationed on Lampedusa Italy. My family endured a lot of hardship during my career. I worked hard and EARNED every penny that the government sends me monthly. I earned it… period. Now maybe some here fail to comprehend the difference between earning and welfare, but that is not my problem. If you are incapable of grasp the difference then you have bigger problems than this issue.

I feel no guilt about receiving my retirement earnings. ZERO!! I feel no guilty when I need to visit the doctor as I have a co-pay which was NOT in my original enlistment contract. At least I worked for my healthcare and am not some social tick awaiting my Obama money from the Obama Stash.

To those that incessantly drone on about the injustice of military retirement pay, feel free. I adamantly support and defend your freedom of speech. I defend your position even though we do not agree. You have the God-given right of free speech. That stated, no one guarantees your right to be heard… or read. So, on that note, your whines are falling upon deaf ears and blind eyes. I defend your right to speak and my right to ignore you.

Have a wonderful, day at work tomorrow. I know I shall too… even though I have been retired since ’98. God Bless America and her brave military members!
 
Coastie - I appreciate your service and in the scheme of government cuts, pay/retirement promised to those who served is the last on the list as far as I am concerned.

BUT...

The reality of ALL government jobs that has long been ignored is that like private sector employment, ANY deferred compensation is a "risk."

That is, if you don't have the money now, you may or may not get it. All the promises, contracts, labor agreements, etc... in the world cannot change reality.

Now, I grant you that government is a generally a low risk, but all too many government employees have confused "low" for "zero." The risk you took in signing up for a deferred compensation scheme was never ZERO.

At the end of the day, your having worked hard does not permit you to steal from someone else because the government lied to you. I hope it does not come to that for you and others who have served, but it has already come to that for many government employees at all levels and in particular SS/Medicare recipients.

That's the bind in which find ourselves in so many government arenas. The government defrauded a lot of people - it committed a crime and that has brought great economic harm to many people. However, one crime cannot be made right by committing another one (stealing from other people to pay off entitlements).
 
MrsWildweasel said:
All I can say is WOW. Nothing like eating your own here.[shocked] Unbelievable.
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I hope I am not included in that analysis? I was just pointing out the reality that anyone who says "I was promised money from the government" needs to step back and realize that promises are only as good as the entity that makes them. As true in the public sector as it is in the private sector.

Moreover, you must recognize that there is no "government money."
 
I tried reading all the back and forth banter in this thread, so forgive me if this has been covered...

People DO NOT "Volunteer" for the military. They make a personal choice to enter the military for many reasons and one of those reasons is because they think it's a good career choice. Most people, military included, factor in the entire package when they make a career decision. When I joined the USAF the current pension at the time was part of my decision making process. That's not being greedy, that's not expecting a hand out, it's a part of business. Shortly after I joined, the 20 year pension was cut back to 30%, and if you don't think that pretty much everyone in the military questioned whether or not they were going to re-up after that then you're sorely mistaken.

I was a heavy equipment mechanic and wound up having a bad service connected shoulder injury & surgery while I was in. I was given the choice to cross train into a desk job, or to be medically discharged and receive compensation. I took the discharge and the compensation and I don't look at it as welfare...I look at it as me getting a small compensation for my service and as a repayment for the injury I received while on the job (like people do in the civilian world). If my payments stop then I'm fine with that, but I don't feel like any less of a person for accepting something that I've been offered. Those of you that think these payments are big are sorely mistaken. My monthly compensation pretty much covers my coffee for the month, and that's about it. Most military people that stay in as a career retire at 20 years and a huge number of them are pretty low ranking for that amount of time in service (E-5 thru E-7). Those three pay grades span from $35,586/year to $54,820 so their retirement pension is $8,896/year and $13,705/year respectively. Do you guys actually think that paying someone that for giving our country 20 years of service is a waste of money? I sure as hell don't. I'd rather see it go to those people than to fund so many of the useless things our govt spends money on.

If those of you that have served don't want to take the money you agreed to receive as pension when you signed up then donate it. But it takes a lot of balls to say that those that do take it are any less honorable than you for accepting payment that was part of an agreement that they agreed to when they signed the dotted line.
 
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Most 18-21 year olds are thinking only of their later economic stability, and that is truly the driving force behind nearly all of their actions. Just ask one. They'll tell you.

That being said, the government's outta money. Has been for a while. It doesn't matter if you've earned the retirement or fulfilled your side of the bargain, because the money ain't there.
 
Gonzo said:
Most 18-21 year olds are thinking only of their later economic stability, and that is truly the driving force behind nearly all of their actions. Just ask one. They'll tell you.

That being said, the government's outta money. Has been for a while. It doesn't matter if you've earned the retirement or fulfilled your side of the bargain, because the money ain't there.
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That's bullshit. The money is there if they cut the funding on all the shit that isn't needed. Do you honestly believe that there isn't any other areas that can be cut?

How about we start defunding stuff like this before taking away pensions that were earned NIH-Backed Study Examined Effects of Penis Size in Gay Community
 
smcnally said:
That's bullshit. The money is there if they cut the funding on all the shit that isn't needed. Do you honestly believe that there isn't any other areas that can be cut?

How about we start defunding stuff like this before taking away pensions that were earned NIH-Backed Study Examined Effects of Penis Size in Gay Community
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_Some_ money is there, but particularly when you include state employees as well, promises have been made that simply cannot be fulfilled.

Even cutting every non-sense program and all defense spending we cannot afford to cover pensions, SS and Medicare as promised - not even close.
 
cekim said:
_Some_ money is there, but particularly when you include state employees as well, promises have been made that simply cannot be fulfilled.

Even cutting every non-sense program and all defense spending we cannot afford to cover pensions, SS and Medicare as promised - not even close.
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State employee pensions have nothing to do with Federal money.
 
smcnally said:
State employee pensions have nothing to do with Federal money.
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[rofl2]

Right up until CA, MA, NY, NJ need a bailout to pay for them... You have to look past the immediate problem to fully understand the gravity of this situation. We've created a generational/civilizational breakdown point with the size of the promises made when you add up all the liabilities and compare to the potential tax base - it just doesn't work.

State pensions are a MASSIVE problem that has so far been largely overlooked by the press for the reason you cite - there is no current linkage to the Federal system. I assure you there will be a need and attempt to bailout a major state(s). It may have already happened under the table with CA and pressure on the Banks to look the other way as they kited checks. That was only round 1.
 
cekim said:
[rofl2]

Right up until CA, MA, NY, NJ need a bailout to pay for them... You have to look past the immediate problem to fully understand the gravity of this situation. We've created a generational/civilizational breakdown point with the size of the promises made when you add up all the liabilities and compare to the potential tax base - it just doesn't work.

State pensions are a MASSIVE problem that has so far been largely overlooked by the press for the reason you cite - there is no current linkage to the Federal system. I assure you there will be a need and attempt to bailout a major state(s). It may have already happened under the table with CA and pressure on the Banks to look the other way as they kited checks. That was only round 1.
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California's recent "bailout" was a loan from private banks, wasn't it? Or am I missing something?
 

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