Did I Just Get Scammed?

+1

drgrant said:
If he had no crap in his ad about MA tell him you want a full refund, and if you don't get one, complain to gunbroker about it. He has no right to charge you shipping for a product that never shipped.

-Mike
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Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
JoeT said:
tell him you still want them and ship them to my home... I'll ship them to your home

let me know and I'll pm you my address
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Thanks for the offer but I'd rather not deal with this guy. I sent him an email telling him he was wrong and should refund the s/h fees. His only response was "thanks for understanding"
 
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Franchise said:
Thanks for the offer but I'd rather not deal with this guy. I sent him an email telling him he was wrong and should refund the s/h fees. His only response was "thanks for understanding"
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lol, what? Hey, you can all send me $10 as well and I'll thank every one of you for understanding.
 
Ebay feedback really works. Nobody wants bad feedback. I would send him/her an email demanding a full refund and threaten bad feedback.

Tom
 
" Hello Dave,

I heard you scammed someone I know out of shipping and handling fees, when the items were never shipped. I would like you to reconsider this move before I leave harsh Ebay feedback, along with filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.


Thanks for understanding. :) "

BBB really takes the feedback serious, as well as Ebay.

He also owns dkmags.com and a few other sites.
 
Ok, looks like a good place to talk about MA law?

Reading through the MA law, and with multiple calls to the MA attorney General:
Here is what I have seen and was told by the MA attorney general:

For a MA resident to purchase ANY magazine, they must have the Correct Class A or B permit.
the law reads the permit must be presented "in person" to the FFL dealer so they can make sure the permit is valid in the MA data base before releasing the mags to the buyer.

How the MA Attorney General explained it to me:
first the buyer is not presenting it "in person"
Second only MA FFL dealers have access to the database to check the permit
(also all mags over 10rds have to be "pre1994 ban" production)- but not the topic here

I asked the MA Attorney General: would a copy of the required permit be allowed for mail order?
I was told NO, because it is not being presented "in person" and only MA FFL dealers have access to the database to do the required check.

I also asked: does this also include low cap, 2 round hunting mags?
I was told YES, permit being presented "in person" is required for all mags

*** because of this, the only way the sale can be legally completed is if mags are shipped to a MA ffl dealer **

1st off, I'm not saying I agree or support this restriction on your 2nd amendment rights,
and it would be great if somehow, the info I have been given is wrong?
However it is the law, and I cannot break the law.

Please forward any FACTS that allow mail order directly to customers?
I have checked multiple times and have found nothing in writing, and the Attorney general always gives me the same info.........

note:
Saying that you got some via mail order ....
or that some dealers don't know about the MA laws (or don't care) .....
or when I am obeying the law, somehow I am not supporting your rights......
These comments do not show how the sale can LEGALLY be completed via mail order

any amount of money in sales is NOT worth the risk to myself, my business or my family.

Thank you,
Dave
DKMAGS
651-633-3624
[email protected]
 
Welcome to the forum Dave,

first, no one here or anywhere is (or should be) telling you how to run your business, do as you see fit

second, who did you speak to at the Mass AG's Office??? Clearly, it wasn't the AG herself. What they are telling you is what they want you to do to be compliant with the law, that's called POLICY. They could tell you not to own guns and you'll be in compliant with the law. They rarely advise you of what you CAN do in Mass when it comes to firearms. Most likely the person you talked to has never even held a firearm, let alone experienced the sale or purchase of one or its accessories.

third, no one in mass has ever done anything other than glance at my license to sell me mags or ammo. I know this is "circumstantial" evidence from your perspective but this is how it's done. Only when you buy a firearm do they need to verify a license is active--so their advice on needing to run the license through the system to sell a mag is completely wrong.

fourth, the Mass Gen Law (MGL) states, "purchased only upon presentment of" and does not anywhere state "in person". So again, what that MA AG person is telling you is their interpretation of the law (policy) and not law itself. They say you need to show it in person, others think a facsimile would be sufficient. see http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131E

In sum, you're getting bulled by the Mass AG. It's a pretty big bully so I don't blame you for not wanting to cross her. But next time you talk to her, or someone from her office, ask them if you can charge a customer 10% for a canceled order. I'm sure they have a policy on that too.
 
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DKMAGS said:
note:
Saying that you got some via mail order ....
or that some dealers don't know about the MA laws (or don't care) .....
or when I am obeying the law, somehow I am not supporting your rights......
These comments do not show how the sale can LEGALLY be completed via mail order
Click to expand...

You'll never find this because the law only restricts things and doesn't necessarily make something legal. Whether something is legal or not is in how your interpret the law.

The problem is what the AG says means nothing outside of MA. If you're not in MA and a customer here orders something FOB, (free on board) then technically they didn't even purchase it in MA. This is a fed/commerce clause thing.

The problem is, in reality the AG is a douchebag and frequently oversteps her bounds, although I've never really seen an incident involving magazines in the past several years WRT mail order.

You have to evaluate on your own whether the "risk" is real or imaginary. Thankfully many vendors have chosen the latter option, others, not so much and are (rather stupidly) afraid at sending a pocket knife to MA.

Whatever choice you make BE CLEAR about your policy to your customers and nobody will get mad. I'd rather be told up front "We don't sell to MA" than play "rejected order circle jerk" like a ton of vendors like to do.

-Mike
 
Hey Dave,

Thanks for taking the time to post. It shows (to me anyway) that you're a stand-up guy just trying to follow the law and run your business. It's a noble pursuit. I'm the first one to say that dealing with MA laws (and the AG's pseudo-laws) is a huge pain in the ass.

I'm not a lawyer, but in my opinion the AG's office misled you. The relevant law is here: http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section123

The catch is that's a MA law. In this case the sale would occur outside of MA, where try as she might our AG has no authority. There's this little thing called the commerce clause that grants the power to regulate commerce between people in different states solely to the feds, who have no laws regarding magazines. (At least not any more.)

(Again, I am not a lawyer)


EDIT: Also worth noting, as far as I know Section 123 on talks about "large capacity" feeding devices. An 8 round mag isn't "large capacity" and can be purchased or possessed by anyone with any license, including an FID. I don't see anything in there at all about non "large capacity" feeding devices. (I hate calling them that.)

EDIT 2: There's nothing anywhere in there that says anything about "presenting in person."
 
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The AG is just trying to screw people over any way she can (gun owners that is). She cant regulate my purchase outside the state, and magazines do not need to go through a 4473 or Fa10 form, so there is no need to check a database. A copy of one's permit should be fine because when it is confiscated (for being a bad boy), they physically take the permit, so a person woudlnt be able to send you a copy. Want to cover yourself? Have them mail a picture of it on top of that days newspaper haha
 
The catch is that's a MA law. In this case the sale would occur outside of MA, where try as she might our AG has no authority. There's this little thing called the commerce clause that grants the power to regulate commerce between people in different states solely to the feds, who have no laws regarding magazines. (At least not any more.)
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The AG is taking the position that the sale takes place at the location to which the common carrier delivers the merchandise - an untested and dubious claim, but none the less, one that can prove expensive for a vendor that chooses not to accept this definition.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The AG is taking the position that the sale takes place at the location to which the common carrier delivers the merchandise - an untested and dubious claim, but none the less, one that can prove expensive for a vendor that chooses not to accept this definition.
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An untested and dubious claim which is contrary to all established precedent.

But yeah, it's expensive to fight and not worth it. I would probably have made the same choice. (I wouldn't have tried to charge a "restocking fee" or whatever that was though.)
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The AG is taking the position that the sale takes place at the location to which the common carrier delivers the merchandise - an untested and dubious claim, but none the less, one that can prove expensive for a vendor that chooses not to accept this definition.
Click to expand...
If that claim worked, they'd be collecting a whole lot more MA sales tax from Amazon.
 
Fizz226 said:
If that claim worked, they'd be collecting a whole lot more MA sales tax from Amazon.
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When you pay for shipping you're taking ownership of the goods where they are (in another state in this case.) The FOB concept has deep roots and has been around for years and years. She doesn't have a leg to stand on.
 
Great info, thank you for your help.
It looks like multiple phone calls (4-5 of them) they have given me mis-information.
every time they transferred me to the Attorney general firearm law "expert"

I'm attempting to call them again, I'll post results : names, numbers and info

Thank you for your help,
Dave
DKMAGS
 
DKMAGS said:
Great info, thank you for your help.
It looks like multiple phone calls (4-5 of them) they have given me mis-information.
every time they transferred me to the Attorney general firearm law "expert"

I'm attempting to call them again, I'll post results : names, numbers and info

Thank you for your help,
Dave
DKMAGS
Click to expand...


Wow, good stuff. Thanks for taking the time.

I'm wondering out loud if this is something that Comm2A is keeping an eye on. (I assume the answer is yes.)
 

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