Daunte Wright Shooting: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know - Edit: Shot by cop who thought she was using a TASER

[CATI]

I knew an Asian couple who was pulled over and not allowed to leave until they scraped off the MPA immunity decal that was on the used car they had bought.

About that one. Unconstitutional (even by MA standards)

“Federal courts have repeatedly held that affixing stickers to motor vehicles is…protected by the Constitution,” Spring wrote. “It was the content of the stickers on the defendant’s car — the representation that he was a member of the MPA — that caused him to be charged with a crime.”

Spring added there is “no compelling government interest” in preventing non-MPA members from displaying MPA stickers on their cars. The statute under which Sobanek was charged “does not specify” what “compelling state interest” it is trying to protect, Spring wrote.

 

[Hoover]

As I said earlier, throw in knowing your town is going to burn if you don't convict. I'm all for nailing bad cops. This wasn't a 'bad' cop. She made a mistake that 90% of 'normal' people might have made. Yes, she had 20 hours of total training over the course of 20+ years on using the taser, but do the math.

I'm all for 'police reform', from my experience with local LEO's they need a TON of training. That's reform I can get behind.

The chauvin and potter trials should never have been in Hennepin county, they should have been moved. The defense definitely put on the better case and there is no way the proof was remotely close to beyond a reasonable doubt. Hennepin county is a very liberal, anti cop area. Throw in the threats of mob violence (there was a guy who showed up at the judges house to intimidate her as the trial was starting) and throw in the states AG office taking the case and having an unlimited budget with 6 lawyer on this case, I think a dozen on the chauvin case and it’s clear the results are strongly tilted against the defendant. This wasn’t seeking justice or a fair trial, it was a hanging court.

This was an error, not a criminal act. It was negligent which gets people fired and a civil lawsuit, not a criminal case.

I don’t think any cop can get a fair trial in the twin cities area, they’ll convict no matter what the evidence shows. Remember 43% supported the recent ballot question election to defund the Minneapolis police. In an area where 43% want to abolish the police force, how can an impartial jury be seated?

 

[weekendracer]

The chauvin and potter trials should never have been in Hennepin county, they should have been moved. The defense definitely put on the better case and a there is no way the proof was remotely close to beyond a reasonable doubt. Hennepin county is a very liberal, anti cop area. Throw in the threats of mob violence (there was a guy who showed up at the judges house to intimidate her as the trial was starting) and throw in the states AG office taking the case and having an unlimited budget with 6 lawyer on this case, I think a dozen on the chauvin case and it’s clear the results are strongly tilted against the defendant. This wasn’t seeking justice or a fair trial, it was a hanging court.

This was an error, not a criminal act. It was negligent which gets people fired and a civil lawsuit, not a criminal case.

I don’t think any cop can get a fair trial in the twin cities area, they’ll convict no matter what the evidence shows. Remember 43% supported the recent ballot question election to defund the Minneapolis police. In an area where 43% want to abolish the police force, how can an impartial jury be seated?

As a former LEO, let's do the algebra:

How many of the 'other' 57 percent can find a way out of jury duty? You know, the producers in a city were you can't afford to not be there.

I wasn't a math major, but I don't like those odds as a father of 3 with a wife to support.

 

[AHM]

interesting take..

Alan Dershowitz: Kim Potter's Conviction Carries 'Dangerous Implications'

The conviction of former Minnesota police officer Kim Potter in the death of Daunte Wright was a "double injustice with dangerous implications for policing in America," especially considering the judge in the case denied her being released on bail, Harvard Law professor...

www.newsmax.com

Note well that the Dersh threw Derek Chauvin under the bus there;
saying that Chauvin committed an "unjustified killing" of George Floyd
even though the pharmacological evidence was that Floyd had
consumed such a massive overdose of drugs that he was a dead man walking
and never would have survived to reach the hospital under any circumstances.

Yet Dershowitz got Claus von Bülow acquitted on far more subtle drug evidence.
("Hypodermic needle had insulin on the outside but not the inside"?
WTF, did the defense rent Proteus and send it inside the cannula to swab for trace evidence?

)

As I said earlier, throw in knowing your town is going to burn if you don't convict.

That's the beauty of the Mass court system screwing with my exurban butt
by sending me to inconvenient jury pools in Cambridge.
No skin off my teeth if Cambridge burns down over a verdict of mine.

 

[Hoover]

As a former LEO, let's do the algebra:

How many of the 'other' 57 percent can find a way out of jury duty? You know, the producers in a city were you can't afford to not be there.

I wasn't a math major, but I don't like those odds as a father of 3 with a wife to support.

No way in the world I’d stay a cop in the twin city area. The BLM mob will riot on any cop shooting and Keith Ellison and the governor and local politicians will use the cop as a political campaign issue and press charges. Look at how clear the self defense in the Rittenhouse case was and the ADA still charged him and without a defense that coast several hundred thousand dollars and common sense people in Kenosha, he may have been convicted.

If Rittenhouse were in Hennepin county, I think he’s convicted and doing life without parole. Hopefully the next election in 2022 removes the moron governor in MN and Ellison

 

[Hoover]

Thank you. That makes more sense now.

So it’s not reckless vs. careless, but specifically “culpable negligence”. And of course the law loves to use terminology that has very different definitions for extremely like terms.

So the state must have proved culpable negligence, which includes an element of recklessness and not just merely negligence itself. I think there definitely was negligence. So the key factor hinges on was it also reckless. And to be reckless, that then hinges on doing something consciously. With knowledge of.

Indeed something can be done negligently without being reckless as well. The difference between making a mistake based on carelessness, complacency, ignorance, etc, and making a mistake based on willful disregard.

It indeed sounds like the elements of the charges she faced, were not met.

I think the argument is going to be, an ordinary and prudent person would have known that mistaking a taser with a pistol is reckless. Of course that would have to mean that she consciously mistook her pistol for a taser, which doesn’t make sense.

Tricky situation the jury was put in. I can see how they’d be confused or more likely, mislead.

The jury was absolutely misled and the judge allowed the prosecution to mislead.

A reasonable person, etc isn’t the standard her, it’s what potter knew. The prosecution should have had to prove she knew she was holding the gun but they judge was a passive twit who allowed the jury to find guilty without the elements of the crime being proven.

One govt agent (judge) helping out another (prosecution).

 

[Bonesinium]

One govt agent (judge) helping out another (prosecution).

It's amazing how quick you catch on when it's a cop who's the defendant instead of the cop being on the side of the prosecution.



With that said, while it's an argument I don't buy and have never bought, the argument that she did know (she was holding a gun) can be made, and it would be then up to the jury to decide. They can indeed choose to not believe that she thought it was a taser and decide she knew what she was doing all along. How they could come to this conclusion, I have no idea. But it's a possibility.

 

[Hoover]

It's amazing how quick you catch on when it's a cop who's the defendant instead of the cop being on the side of the prosecution.



With that said, while it's an argument I don't buy and have never bought, the argument that she did know (she was holding a gun) can be made, and it would be then up to the jury to decide. They can indeed choose to not believe that she thought it was a taser and decide she knew what she was doing all along. How they could come to this conclusion, I have no idea. But it's a possibility.

I don’t care what people do for a living, i look at each case objectively

 

[Bonesinium]

 

[weekendracer]

It's amazing how quick you catch on when it's a cop who's the defendant instead of the cop being on the side of the prosecution.



With that said, while it's an argument I don't buy and have never bought, the argument that she did know (she was holding a gun) can be made, and it would be then up to the jury to decide. They can indeed choose to not believe that she thought it was a taser and decide she knew what she was doing all along. How they could come to this conclusion, I have no idea. But it's a possibility.

So, your impression is in the split decision she had to make, she chose to murder someone? Your statement is as convoluted as when I ask where the last $100 in our bank account went.

 

[Bonesinium]

So, your impression is in the split decision she had to make, she chose to murder someone? Your statement is as convoluted as when I ask where the last $100 in our bank account went.

That's not even on the same planet as what I said, but it's no surprise you would get what I said exactly backwards. Did you even try reading what I wrote or just assumed I would say something you disagreed with to argue? It's really not hard and only convoluted if you aren't particularly bright.

I'll help you, because I'm nice, though I doubt it will help.

With that said, while it's an argument I don't buy and have never bought, the argument that she did know (she was holding a gun) can be made, and it would be then up to the jury to decide. They can indeed choose to not believe that she thought it was a taser and decide she knew what she was doing all along. How they could come to this conclusion, I have no idea. But it's a possibility.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

About that one. Unconstitutional (even by MA standards)

The MPA claims that display of an sticker (which conveniently are to be placed in a "Traffic stop visible" position on LEO personal vehicles) is the illegal use of a trade union or professional organization logo or emblem and their trade rag "The Sentinal" contains (or at least contained) repeated reminders to "not tolerate or allow this to remain on a civilian* vehicle". They are serial numbered and traceable to the officer they were issued to.

I remember they went after someone who was selling these, or a replica thereof, on ebay.

* - Used with all due respect to those who do not accept one of Webster's definitions of civilian.

Lol like that shit works anymore.

The MPA sticker works only because it is the one known to be "Police Only", however, I would expect there would be a brief conversation to establish that the driver was indeed LEO or an immediate family member. All it does is shift the conversation from the driver saying (s)he is a LEO to the on duty officer asking. So, it really does not accomplish much.

The MPA campaign and restrictive issuance procedure (serial numbered stickers given to a department contact who is required to record who gets each one) is specifically intended to "preserve the meaning" of the decal.

Support your police stickers for sale to civilians are functionally useless.

 

[SpaceCritter]

All the way up to the point at which he was shot, police could have caught up with him later to effect an arrest under safer circumstances.

Or not. This guy was arrested just before hightailing it to Mexico:

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[snubnose]

As I said earlier, throw in knowing your town is going to burn if you don't convict. I'm all for nailing bad cops. This wasn't a 'bad' cop. She made a mistake that 90% of 'normal' people might have made. Yes, she had 20 hours of total training over the course of 20+ years on using the taser, but do the math.

I'm all for 'police reform', from my experience with local LEO's they need a TON of training. That's reform I can get behind.

Curious as to what training is needed.

 

[weekendracer]

Curious as to what training is needed.

I wore a badge, carried a gun for just under 21 years. I never felt 'trained' enough. I did a lot of training on my own. But when it comes to the law updates, my interpretation of what I read may not be the actual legal interpretation, look at how many people claim cops have no duty to protect.

Every LEO should be MANDATED to train at an accredited boxing gym or some sort of MMA school. If the agency has a less lethal instructor cadre, use them. Minimum 3 hours a week, on the clock. Every LEO should have a MINIMUM of an hour a week on the range. Taser or other less lethal training, at least deploying the device. If you are in such bad shape you can't train, you get discharged. If it was caused by an on the job injury, medical retirement. If you just get fat, it's on you.

LEO's should get a minimum of a monthly newsletter on law updates. Preferably, the DA or other actual law combatant explaining how the law is actually meant to be applied and how evidence intertwines with the law. Most of my law updates were through word of mouth, then I'd go look up the case. I had the benefit of having the Chief Counsel for my agency literally 3 doors away from my office area and ran into him in the elevator/bathroom/walking the hallways. The complete lack of understanding I heard from local LEO's in the field was appalling. I worked in 6 states, they were generally the same issues everywhere.

After 21 years, being an instructor, being a normal gun carrier, that's the minimum I'd like to see put forth to wear a badge and enforce the law. Is it realistic? Nope, would a high percentage of 'stupid' be at least addressed and bad actors have documentation to get rid of them? Possibly.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Curious as to what training is needed.

Reminders to yell "Stop Resisting!!" and "Let go of my gun!!" while bystanders have their phones out.

I wore a badge, carried a gun for just under 21 years. I never felt 'trained' enough. I did a lot of training on my own. But when it comes to the law updates, my interpretation of what I read may not be the actual legal interpretation, look at how many people claim cops have no duty to protect.

I must have missed the case. Has Warren v. DC been overturned?

LEO's should get a minimum of a monthly newsletter on law updates.

I was asking a cop I know about what law substantitated an inaccurate claim he made about MGL as it applies to firearms. This was a 100% good guy, firearms licensing officer who probably has trouble spelling the word "restriction" because it's not in his vocabulary, and the best he could do was "It's in there somewhere". If this is the understanding pro-gun officers have of the law, it certainly confirms the need for better training - and with the law curriculum reviewed by outsiders to make sure there are not intentional omissions or stating the law based on a police, rather than judicial, interpretation.

 

[weekendracer]

Reminders to yell "Stop Resisting!!" and "Let go of my gun!!" while bystanders have their phones out.


I must have missed the case. Has Warren v. DC been overturned?

Well, you made my case at least. The case holds that the city can't be sued if a cop doesn't get there and protect 'you'. That is NOT the same as saying a cop can just sit there and watch stuff happen with no repercussions.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Well, you made my case at least. The case holds that the city can't be sued if a cop doesn't get there and protect 'you'. That is NOT the same as saying a cop can just sit there and watch stuff happen with no repercussions.

Agreed. What people on NES mean by no duty is generally in the "Warren sense" of the word. And Warren was not just about a cop "not getting there" but the system dropping the ball in not doing so.

Warren states that if you call 911 for police assistance, they have officers available, and there are no traffic issues and they don't bother to send an officer to respond that the city has no liability.

 

[weekendracer]

Agreed. What people on NES mean by no duty is generally in the "Warren sense" of the word. And Warren was not just about a cop "not getting there" but the system dropping the ball in not doing so.

Warren states that if you call 911 for police assistance, they have officers available, and there are no traffic issues and they don't bother to send an officer to respond that the city has no liability.

Edit: I misread some of that. I really need to just admit I need reading glasses.
The way the other one was explained to me, if they (SCOTUS) let the cities be liable for even a screwup, every victim of every crime would be suing the city every time. The system would fail under it's own weight due to the inability to be everywhere at one. Because no response is perfect. You can find some fault with everything. This is from talking to the Chief Counsel outside the classroom. A guy who ran around DC legal circles for a couple decades.

/edit

I actually had it confused with the woman who was raped and the cops didn't kick down the door. But even then, it was basically the same 'issue'. The cops did show up in a reasonable time. Was it reasonable for cops to kick down the door of what appeared to be an unoccupied house? I've done enough 'local LEO' work' to know a LOT of calls are bogus, or just Mr/Mrs Crazy McCrazy making a phone call.

Us 2A people should be happy those cases are going the way they are going. I'm not smart enough, but it seems to me the SCOTUS is leveling a mountain of precedent that shows it's up to 'you' to hold until the popo get there.

 

[AHM]

Although the stickers are useless, I could see the case being made that the government has a compelling interest in preventing people from misrepresenting themselves as po’s when they are not in fact and that the car isn’t even registered to a po. ...

MGL Ch. 268 §33: Falsely assuming to be justice of the peace or other officers

Whoever falsely assumes or pretends to be a justice of the peace, notary public, sheriff, deputy sheriff, medical examiner, associate medical examiner, constable, police officer, probation officer, or examiner, investigator or other officer appointed by the registrar of motor vehicles, or inspector, investigator or examiner of the department of public utilities or the department of telecommunications and cable, or investigator or other officer of the alcoholic beverages control commission, or investigator or other official of the bureau of special investigations, or examiner, investigator or other officer of the department of revenue, and acts as such or requires a person to aid or assist him in a matter pertaining to the duty of such officer, shall be punished by a fine of not more than four hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year.​

Underscoring mine.

Pretending to be a cop is only illegal if you act like a cop.

Support your police stickers for sale to civilians are functionally useless.

To whatever degree that they prove ineffective at traffic stops,
Support Your Police Stickers teach people
not to buy Support Your Police Stickers.

The way the other one was explained to me, if they (SCOTUS) let the cities be liable for even a screwup, every victim of every crime would be suing the city every time. The system would fail under it's own weight due to the inability to be everywhere at one. Because no response is perfect. You can find some fault with everything. This is from talking to the Chief Counsel outside the classroom. A guy who ran around DC legal circles for a couple decades.

To put it in perspective:

Spoiler: Old and busted

Spoiler: The New Hotness

Better that ten innocents get MurderDeathKilled in a lawless Donk <bleep>hole,
than one barratrous asshøle clog up a docket with baseless allegations.

I've done enough 'local LEO' work' to know a LOT of calls are bogus, or just Mr/Mrs Crazy McCrazy making a phone call.

Many of us remember "see the woman" on Adam-12, no?
Remember what the complainant was like?

Spoiler: Artist's conception

Us 2A people should be happy those cases are going the way they are going. I'm not smart enough, but it seems to me the SCOTUS is leveling a mountain of precedent that shows it's up to 'you' to hold until the popo get there.

Meanwhile,
"Massachusetts [still] doesn't encourage 'self-help'".

 

[snubnose]

Mass. lawmakers gut Quinn Bill

BOSTON — The controversial Quinn Bill, which provides police officers with a salary incentive to further their education, was gutted by House lawmakers Friday night in move to save money. The…

www.sentinelandenterprise.com

 

[snubnose]

Police and Sheriff's Patrol Officers

www.bls.gov

 

[snubnose]

Massachusetts State Employees

A list of Massachusetts State Employees salaries by year, agency and employee.

www.openthebooks.com

 

[snubnose]

How to become a police officer

Want to join the Boston Police Department? You need to take the state's civil service exam and apply for the job. Here's how:

www.boston.gov

click on the -take the exam- to see the requirements

 

[slugworth]

Massachusetts State Employees

A list of Massachusetts State Employees salaries by year, agency and employee.

www.openthebooks.com

. The President of Westfield state makes more the the Governor

 

[Rockrivr1]

Mass. lawmakers gut Quinn Bill

BOSTON — The controversial Quinn Bill, which provides police officers with a salary incentive to further their education, was gutted by House lawmakers Friday night in move to save money. The…

www.sentinelandenterprise.com

My cousin’s a local LE in a mid sized town in Central Ma. He completed his Bachelor’s degree earlier this year going to night school. Once he got his diploma he got this bump in his salary. I’m wondering if without this influx of funds will these towns make these officers have a pay cut.

To me this sounds very anti cop. I bet there’s money for all the pet projects these congress critters have. I have no idea why anyone would want to be in LE nowadays.

 

[rommel]

Massachusetts State Employees

A list of Massachusetts State Employees salaries by year, agency and employee.

www.openthebooks.com

top 10 state police combined salaries and the corresponding year, (not exact, just used rounded numbers)

2020' $3.5 mil 5 of which were trooper 1st class and one was a trooper, top dog was seargent at $415k and next 3 were trooper 1st class at: $397k, $383k and $360k
2019' $3.2 mil 6 of which were trooper 1st class, top dog was a Seargent at $377k next was trooper 1st class at $357k
2018' $2.7 mil
2017' $3 mil

 

[snubnose]

I think its fair to say that the attack on the Police began a long time ago-in Massachusetts anyway;

CLIENT ALERT: Cities and Towns Score a Major Win in Quinn Bill Litigation - Morgan, Brown & Joy

The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court has issued a unanimous decision that will have a dramatic impact on the way municipalities compensate police officers for educational incentives under the Quinn Bill […]

www.morganbrown.com

 

[Bonesinium]

Where’s the federal case law that says the MGL statue is unconstitutional?

It’s called the first amendment.

 

[AHM]

Mass. lawmakers gut Quinn Bill

BOSTON — The controversial Quinn Bill, which provides police officers with a salary incentive to further their education, was gutted by House lawmakers Friday night in move to save money. The…

www.sentinelandenterprise.com

(While I've long suspected that the Commonwealth's finances
are way more of a Potemkin Village than anyone lets on),
anyone wanna bet the proximate brain fart came from someone
casting about for a way to Defund The Police?