It's never manslaughter when you shoot someone 6 times. If you're pointing a gun at him and have an ND, that's manslaughter. Just pointing that out. This cop intended to kill him when he fired.
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Daniel Shaver ... Ex-Officer Found Not Guilty
- Thread starter ErnstStavro
- Start date
It's never manslaughter when you shoot someone 6 times. If you're pointing a gun at him and have an ND, that's manslaughter. Just pointing that out. This cop intended to kill him when he fired.
you’re just plain wrong here. The cop is a murderer.12 mins in to the video the interaction starts, Cop is an idiot.
Hero's rifle
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I wasn't being clear. Or it could simply be the bourbon. I know it wasn't an accident/manslaughter. I meant the jury failed. No way that cop should have walked away scot free.
Yell a bunch of conflicting , confusing orders while threatening to kill the guy the whole time.
The kid seemed to know that he was going to be shot no matter what. "Don't shoot me, Don't kill me"
What ever happened to "Face down , hands in front. " ?
Either the cop was just a panicky pussy , or he had a murder boner that had to be taken care of.
In any case I hope the little a-hole ends up an unsolved mystery .
The kid seemed to know that he was going to be shot no matter what. "Don't shoot me, Don't kill me"
What ever happened to "Face down , hands in front. " ?
Either the cop was just a panicky pussy , or he had a murder boner that had to be taken care of.
In any case I hope the little a-hole ends up an unsolved mystery .
They don't make sense when not impaired.
Interlace fingers on back of head. Hands stretched in the air. Lay down. Kneel. Crawl. Cross legs. Jump on one foot. Do the Macarena.
If police were training cops that way they are also culpable. And while I know they train cops in some screwed up ways, I doubt they train cops to order people to crawl while holding their hands up with legs crossed.
Your brain goes to poop under stress. Having a pile of guns pointed at with with people threatening to shoot you with a gun you know is going to kill you if you get shot. Have fun with your brain working correctly. I know mine wouldn't. This is why military folks are trained. So their brains don't pumpkin under that kinda stress. And even then. With tons of training. Some still do.
Stay down. Don't move. Hands out. And cuff the damned guy. Quick. Fail abounds.
Stay down. Don't move. Hands out. And cuff the damned guy. Quick. Fail abounds.
" If you're pointing a gun at him and have an ND, that's manslaughter."
Not in Framingham...
I will agree that it looked like stupidity on both sides. And I'm trying to look at it through the frame of reference of LE responding to a man waving a rifle out the window of a hotel. That said, I would have convicted based on that video alone, but I'm curious what other evidence/instructions were given to the jurors. I'm not surprised the dust cover never came in. I have the same one on my AR10. I do think it shows a lack of maturity and at the very least a crass attitude about death having it on a patrol rifle, but that does not a murderer make.
Ultimately, I feel like if Marines can have better fire discipline in Afghanistan, what is this clown doing.
Also, clearly a bunch of issues with how everything is handled, from the yelling to the shooting.
Mike
Not in Framingham...
I will agree that it looked like stupidity on both sides. And I'm trying to look at it through the frame of reference of LE responding to a man waving a rifle out the window of a hotel. That said, I would have convicted based on that video alone, but I'm curious what other evidence/instructions were given to the jurors. I'm not surprised the dust cover never came in. I have the same one on my AR10. I do think it shows a lack of maturity and at the very least a crass attitude about death having it on a patrol rifle, but that does not a murderer make.
Ultimately, I feel like if Marines can have better fire discipline in Afghanistan, what is this clown doing.
Also, clearly a bunch of issues with how everything is handled, from the yelling to the shooting.
Mike
ToddDubya
NES Member
After all that they tried to get into the wrong room. At the beginning of the video they're telling the occupants of room 502 to come out. At the end they can't figure out why the key won't open the door to room 500. Good thing the old lady in that room didn't open the door for them and receive a Mozambique drill.
I agree with most of the comments, not knowing the whole situation I'll leave it at that. But when he reached for his waist, I knew he was going to get shot before the first shot went off.
Once I have command of a situation, I don't let/ask anyone move, stops the 'hands up, now crawl' gibberish. I or another agent moves in to cuff. The wildcard is the open door to the room that hasn't been cleared, but you deal with threats as they appear. I also don't prone people facing me, I turn you away then prone. Only way you can see me to make a gross movement that I can see.
I guess I have a different experience dealing with people who barely speak english or spanish.
I'm guessing no weapon was recovered?
Once I have command of a situation, I don't let/ask anyone move, stops the 'hands up, now crawl' gibberish. I or another agent moves in to cuff. The wildcard is the open door to the room that hasn't been cleared, but you deal with threats as they appear. I also don't prone people facing me, I turn you away then prone. Only way you can see me to make a gross movement that I can see.
I guess I have a different experience dealing with people who barely speak english or spanish.
I'm guessing no weapon was recovered?
He was only reaching for his waistband because the carpet was pulling his gym shorts down, which are only held up by an elastic band. There was no weapon on him; it was an air rifle that was found in his room that was used for his job as a pest controller IIRC.
Cop is a murdering piece of garbage and the jury failed what should have been an easy conviction IMO.
This was completely avoidable; of course the media has ignored it because it is a pretty cut-and-dried example of state agents killing a citizens for no good reason.
Cop is a murdering piece of garbage and the jury failed what should have been an easy conviction IMO.
This was completely avoidable; of course the media has ignored it because it is a pretty cut-and-dried example of state agents killing a citizens for no good reason.
Interesting bit of info - the guy yelling commands is not the same guy that took the shots/had the bodycam. The guy yelling commands was the SGT in charge of the scene - shooter only said a couple words midway through the ordeal.
I couldn't follow what they wanted him to do while completely sober. I can't imagine how they expected this drunk guy to comply.
I couldn't follow what they wanted him to do while completely sober. I can't imagine how they expected this drunk guy to comply.
That's what I don't get.
What were they trying to do , run the guy through the special Olympics course?
And no , he didn't have a gun on him.
headednorth
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Talk about high stakes Simon Says.
Ive read the jury only saw an edited version of the video which didnt include the actual shooting. The unedited version was released after the trial.
Wickedcoolname
NES Member
I'm not sure where I've been around more cop haters. Here on NES or when I worked in a state prison. Here, I think.
Jason Flare
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The hatred is not for Police Officers but for wanna be c$#k swinging commandos like Brailsford who murder people. The hatred would be the same for any other dregs of humanity that murder, rape and rob.
The crawling thing was because they weren't sure if someone else was in the room and they didn't want to get that close to the room to handcuff.
I watch that and from the beginning I am pretty sure those two kids are no threat. That being said.. if multiple officers are pointing ARs at you don't reach for your waist band.. ever. Kid did it twice.
The officer that was giving commands was an idiot. Guy who shot I would have acquitted to be honest. Reached for his waist band when not instructed they cut him a break. Told do not put your hands near your waist band for any reason or we will shoot you. Does it again... he got shot. *shrug*
I watch that and from the beginning I am pretty sure those two kids are no threat. That being said.. if multiple officers are pointing ARs at you don't reach for your waist band.. ever. Kid did it twice.
The officer that was giving commands was an idiot. Guy who shot I would have acquitted to be honest. Reached for his waist band when not instructed they cut him a break. Told do not put your hands near your waist band for any reason or we will shoot you. Does it again... he got shot. *shrug*
Bmcl322
NES Member
12 mins in to the video the interaction starts, Cop is an idiot.
Hero's rifle
Bill Murray as Steve Zissou, in Life Aquatic, "If you're not against me, don't cross this line; if yes, do." He made more sense than this Cop's instructions. ..and when Klaus crosses the line and then says, "Do it again." Priceless!! Bet this guy wishes for a redo.
Bmcl322
NES Member
Special Olympics. Perfect!! Best summation thus far!!
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Well maybe if they weren't showing up on video's like this hourly......................??
They aren't, the cop bashing thread goes back decades to keep the thread going. Just like BLM, you won't change your mind when presented with raw stats, but yes, this one looks bad, but if someone reaches for their waist rapidly, even I'd be pretty heavy on the trigger. I've been there, I've seen men wet themselves when the realization of what they did almost ended them. I've been 'lucky' enough to not have to shoot someone yet, but I've been so close I was surprised the gun didn't go bang.
The cop bashing here is ridiculous. Along with some other various crap as of late.
I like cops. Many of my closest friends are cops. Many of them have been in much more tense situations than this and not shot anyone... that probably starts all the way at their training and SOPs. This situation should never even have gotten as far as it did.
I've never been a cop. I have pointed weapons in people's faces and not blown their heads off. I don't buy this might maybe look like he's reaching argument. I don't think cops need to wait until they are staring down the barrel of a gun to shoot -- but this is nuts. Part of the reason it is nuts in my mind is how they are treating the situation. The dude is obviously panicked and freaking out -- I'd bet my left nut if they were simply more calm in giving instructions and made any effort to diffuse the situation this dude would be alive. Both these dudes should be in jail.
Mike
I like cops. Many of my closest friends are cops. Many of them have been in much more tense situations than this and not shot anyone... that probably starts all the way at their training and SOPs. This situation should never even have gotten as far as it did.
I've never been a cop. I have pointed weapons in people's faces and not blown their heads off. I don't buy this might maybe look like he's reaching argument. I don't think cops need to wait until they are staring down the barrel of a gun to shoot -- but this is nuts. Part of the reason it is nuts in my mind is how they are treating the situation. The dude is obviously panicked and freaking out -- I'd bet my left nut if they were simply more calm in giving instructions and made any effort to diffuse the situation this dude would be alive. Both these dudes should be in jail.
Mike
If you knew me or some of the others posting here you would know that's the furthest from the truth it could be.
There are some resident bashers yes, but calling a numbnuts a numbnuts regardless of being a cop or not isn't bashing them all.
There are simply some people who should never be doing that job. That video shows you a couple.
A wife a widow and a couple of kids fatherless over nothing isn't an oops.
Sorry lady, go tell the kids Daddy is in the morgue because he failed his dancing with the stars routine try out.
MachineHead
NES Member
Sucks for the victim. It almost would’ve made sense to just lay there with his arms in front of him and not even move, instructions be damned if they got that complicated.
not new guy
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This is a pretty stupid thread to pick to take a stand in.
HARRYM
NES Member
When Public Employees are confronted with a factual case, such as the Shaver case, they can never view it singularly. They are taught from the get go that the thin blue line is to be observed or be drummed out. Remember that over 85% of the scam public employee unions vote Democratic and they are also taught to respond with terms like hater in an effort to distract from the facts of the singular issue. This response it classic public employee speech 101.
You do realize the system is set up, and working perfectly, to shield cops from facing repercussions for stupid mistakes, and in this case murder,that happen on the job? No not all cops are murderers and awful people but POS like the one in this video had no business carrying a badge and shouldn't be walking around a free man.
Quite possibly the stupidest series of commands. Crawl towards me?
But hey all the officers fulfilled Rule #1 of LE.
Sounds to me this being Arizona and all that Cop was pumped up on Meth...He killed this kid and well eye for and eye, and the day of his parents choosing. It's only jail and murder in the Country is obviously even to the lowest IQ among us...legal.
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