DA/SA safety question

[drgrant]

I personally think the SRT makes more improvement than a few lbs less trigger pull but thats just me.

Given a choice I'd much rather have a good trigger with a clean 5 pound or less break and a long reset vs a 7lb shit wall puncher job. My P229s were difficult to master because of that issue. A lot of it obviously depended on the size of your hands... SRT might help in some cases because if the reset is short, your finger might have a greater mechanical advantage so it -feels- lighter, etc. I definitely see how someone could say that.

-Mike

 

[Varmint]

Never have. Along the same lines, does anyone find HK's and other decocks unnerving, the way it snaps forward with full force? I prefer Sigs which have that slow decock.

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With a typical P series Sig you can't really do that. And on some HKs the safety lever really sucks in terms of trying to disable the safety on the
fly, it's easier to just carry them chamber loaded, decocked, safety off. When I had an HK45 I had the LEM variant.

-Mike

+1 easy to accidentally decock an HK when manipulating the safety down. And that's without an adrenaline dump.

 

[steve495]

As an instructor and RSO on a line during a class, it is always a concern. It's something we watch for all the time, and yes, people do occasionally holster while in SA. I run a P229 DA/SA on occasion, and I find myself "decocking" my P320 all the time. (Just making the movement with my support thumb.)

 

[92G]

Never have. Along the same lines, does anyone find HK's and other decocks unnerving, the way it snaps forward with full force? I prefer Sigs which have that slow decock.

while it's all a matter of preference, i like HK's decocking lever locations much more than Sig's. on an HK the decocking can be accomplished without breaking one's grip. the sig requires breaking the grip to reach the decocker (unless one has a huge thumb and can reach with their strong hand). further HK puts their slide stop lever further forward in a much more 1911-like location. while I've gotten accustomed to Sig's control locations, I still find them awkward compared to an HK. i have no problems with it but I do see people riding the slide lock on Sig's especially those with long fingers.

in terms of the decocker on HK slamming the hammer forward, it's a non-issue. if need to decock without making any noise then just thumb the hammer down with the decocker. easy.

 

[Varmint]

while it's all a matter of preference, i like HK's decocking lever locations much more than Sig's. on an HK the decocking can be accomplished without breaking one's grip. the sig requires breaking the grip to reach the decocker (unless one has a huge thumb and can reach with their strong hand). further HK puts their slide stop lever further forward in a much more 1911-like location. while I've gotten accustomed to Sig's control locations, I still find them awkward compared to an HK. i have no problems with it but I do see people riding the slide lock on Sig's especially those with long fingers.

in terms of the decocker on HK slamming the hammer forward, it's a non-issue. if need to decock without making any noise then just thumb the hammer down with the decocker. easy.

I use my weak hand to decock so the Sig works well for that.

On HKs it just makes me nervous to hear that hammer slapping forward at full speed. I'm more comfortable decocking it 1911 style.

 

[92G]

I use my weak hand to decock so the Sig works well for that.

On HKs it just makes me nervous to hear that hammer slapping forward at full speed. I'm more comfortable decocking it 1911 style.

to me the fact that Sig requires two hand operation to decock is a disadvantage compared to HK's designs which are inherently one handed. the louder hammer drop on the HK also used to freak me out, but once I disassembled my first USP and saw the internals it made much more sense.

aside from the incredibly robust design of HK hammer guns, they took all the great attributes of the 1911 design and ditched the rest. the locations of slide stop and safety/decocker are examples. ultimately HK made the decocker even better for carry by moving it to the back of frame (adjacent the hammer) on the P2000/P30.

 

[szaino]

Have you ever chambered a round, forgot to decock, and then holstered? Or chambered, forgot to decock, and then surprised yourself with a super light pull?
Is this a concern?
I know, training = safety...

Glock is never having to say decock.

 

[MGnoob]

Given a choice I'd much rather have a good trigger with a clean 5 pound or less break and a long reset vs a 7lb shit wall puncher job. My P229s were difficult to master because of that issue. A lot of it obviously depended on the size of your hands... SRT might help in some cases because if the reset is short, your finger might have a greater mechanical advantage so it -feels- lighter, etc. I definitely see how someone could say that.

-Mike

While i like a lighter trigger THE SRT its just that, A mechanical advantage. Also for amatuers, which we all once were. The short reset helps alleviate the tendency to pull rather than squeeze once you get used to not letting the trigger reset out to the maximium distance. You get alot less left to right dispersion of your groups.

 

[DPR]

to me the fact that Sig requires two hand operation to decock is a disadvantage compared to HK's designs which are inherently one handed. the louder hammer drop on the HK also used to freak me out, but once I disassembled my first USP and saw the internals it made much more sense.

aside from the incredibly robust design of HK hammer guns, they took all the great attributes of the 1911 design and ditched the rest. the locations of slide stop and safety/decocker are examples. ultimately HK made the decocker even better for carry by moving it to the back of frame (adjacent the hammer) on the P2000/P30.

Sig does not require two hand operation to decock. If someone chooses to do it that way then so be it. Otherwise if you can't decock single handed you probably can't press the mag release either.

 

[Win]

I've always decocked my p239 with one hand

 

[92G]

Sig does not require two hand operation to decock. If someone chooses to do it that way then so be it. Otherwise if you can't decock single handed you probably can't press the mag release either.

For most users the Sig pistol requires breaking of grip to decock and use of two hands. I didnt invent this. Its a known topic.

the inferiority of design becomes readily apparent when doing lots of shoot -> decock -> holster. Run 50 drills with a sig then 50 drills with an HK P2000 and its a no brainer.

i am not criticizing the Sig pistol. It is excellent. However the fanboyism for Sig is so strong that its obvious design shortcomings are vehemently denied like when the pope was told the solar system were ellipses not circles.

 

[mousegunfan]

For most users the Sig pistol requires breaking of grip to decock and use of two hands. I didnt invent this. Its a known topic.

the inferiority of design becomes readily apparent when doing lots of shoot -> decock -> holster. Run 50 drills with a sig then 50 drills with an HK P2000 and its a no brainer.

i am not criticizing the Sig pistol. It is excellent. However the fanboyism for Sig is so strong that its obvious design shortcomings are vehemently denied like when the pope was told the solar system were ellipses not circles.

So what. You or anyone planning on de-cocking in the middle of a fight. You'll de-cock when the action is over. I always use my off hand to de-cock and don't need to change any grip.

 

[BrianWilson]

Many moons ago at an early action match my old pal Jimmy saw all the good guys starting with the hammer back, so during LAMR he holstered up his Model 39 that way, and promptly shot himself in the leg. At the hospital he told them he fell on a fence, but they weren't buying that.

 

[92G]

So what. You or anyone planning on de-cocking in the middle of a fight. You'll de-cock when the action is over. I always use my off hand to de-cock and don't need to change any grip.

the irony here is that if a pistol required 2 hands to release the magazine or slide folks would be flapping their arms up and down about it. but two hands to decock is just fine.

also there is no way to decock with your off hand without breaking your grip. unless of course your weak hand thumb is 1 cm long.

 

[mousegunfan]

the irony here is that if a pistol required 2 hands to release the magazine or slide folks would be flapping their arms up and down about it. but two hands to decock is just fine.

also there is no way to decock with your off hand without breaking your grip. unless of course your weak hand thumb is 1 cm long.

I'm guessing your breaking your grip when loading that new magazine. I would even say moving your right thumb to de-cock is breaking your grip also.

Big difference between the need to load more ammo and de-cock. I repeat who cares if you break your grip when de-cocking.

 

[PeterGV]

Glock is never having to say decock.

DAO or DAK is never having to say decock, with a SIG accent. One of the many reasons DAK is my choice for carry.

 

[enbloc]

...I know, training = safety...

OP, you had the answer all along!
Whether a blackpowder dragoon or a VP9, known your carry gun backwards and forwards or leave it in the safe.

 

[Varmint]

For most users the Sig pistol requires breaking of grip to decock and use of two hands. I didnt invent this. Its a known topic.

the inferiority of design becomes readily apparent when doing lots of shoot -> decock -> holster. Run 50 drills with a sig then 50 drills with an HK P2000 and its a no brainer.

i am not criticizing the Sig pistol. It is excellent. However the fanboyism for Sig is so strong that its obvious design shortcomings are vehemently denied like when the pope was told the solar system were ellipses not circles.

Maybe if I were shooting one-handed the 2-handed decock would bother me, but since I shoot with two hands, both hands are on the gun already, and it's perfectly natural to decock with opposite hand, and I like not having to move my thumb on shooting hand.

 

[DPR]

For most users the Sig pistol requires breaking of grip to decock and use of two hands. I didnt invent this. Its a known topic.

the inferiority of design becomes readily apparent when doing lots of shoot -> decock -> holster. Run 50 drills with a sig then 50 drills with an HK P2000 and its a no brainer.

i am not criticizing the Sig pistol. It is excellent. However the fanboyism for Sig is so strong that its obvious design shortcomings are vehemently denied like when the pope was told the solar system were ellipses not circles.

As I said if you can't manipulate the decocker with one hand then you can't manipulate the mag release. If you can manipulate the mag release but not the decocker then it's a lack of ability/dexterity not a design issue. Each is able to be touched with your thumb. I've SO'd I don't know how many people with Sigs at matches and only seen a few stumble with it.

 

[drgrant]

For most users the Sig pistol requires breaking of grip to decock and use of two hands. I didnt invent this. Its a known topic.

LOL, not sure if serious, I think you're grossly exaggerating it. I've not seen that many people that had to use the offhand to run the decocker.

The only serious ergonomic problems with the P series pistols is the guns are ****ing terrible for anyone who is left handed, that can be taken to the bank.

-Mike

 

[MGnoob]

I had to go play with some p series after I discovered I didn't know what I am was talking in about..I use to work/play with them daily and I guess my mind is hardly tl30 rated anymore .

As far as actually decocking most people I know just hold the gun with two hands and slide their thumb down the side to decock...I could seeing it be awkward if your lefty, or have girl hands.

I use my right hand thumb... but if you couldn't reach I don't see how using your left hand thumb would be a problem...I've never thought about it or heard anyone complain about it. Noone taught me how to do it.. it just naturally feels right to me.

 

[mousegunfan]

I had to go play with some p series after I discovered I didn't know what I am was talking in about..I use to work/play with them daily and I guess my mind is hardly tl30 rated anymore .

As far as actually decocking most people I know just hold the gun with two hands and slide their thumb down the side to decock...I could seeing it be awkward if your lefty, or have girl hands.

I use my right hand thumb... but if you couldn't reach I don't see how using your left hand thumb would be a problem...I've never thought about it or heard anyone complain about it. Noone taught me how to do it.. it just naturally feels right to me.

Good post. Some people just over think things to death.

 

[MGnoob]

After squibs post i had to laugh at drgtants responce...up until my NFA obsession i was a huge sig fan boy. i had never heard or read anyone bring up an issue with having to use a single hand to hold the gun and another to decock it. So i was more thinking outloud trying to reason it in my head....i just can't. At the same time i cant outright deny it, but if it was an issue for somone i would simply not use the lever at all. At the range i would just pull the trigger and ease the hammer down.. if not the range id use a bucket of sand...
and in a firefight it would be the least of my worries.

 

[YZhou4]

If you're reholstering a traditional DA/SA gun, why would you not put your thumb on the hammer while you put it away? It makes it much safer to reholster, especially AIWB, and you will immediately know if you forgot to decock (which has never happened to me).

 

[DPR]

If you're reholstering a traditional DA/SA gun, why would you not put your thumb on the hammer while you put it away? It makes it much safer to reholster, especially AIWB, and you will immediately know if you forgot to decock (which has never happened to me).

You would not ride the hammer because the gun could still fire vs using the decock where the gun will not fire when the hammer is being lowered (for most DA/SA). IMO using the decock is safer no matter what holster you are using.

 

[Varmint]

You would not ride the hammer because the gun could still fire vs using the decock where the gun will not fire when the hammer is being lowered (for most DA/SA). IMO using the decock is safer no matter what holster you are using.

He's not saying decock with thumb, he's saying put your thumb on the back of the gun when holstering so (a) you'll notice if the hammer is still back, and (b) you'll notice if the hammer starts to go back cause the trigger is hung up on something.

Seems logical but I don't do that, I figure the long DA pull is enough safety.

 

[Siantis]

Having my thumb on the hammer while holstering is exactly what I do as well. It just feels natural to me.

Also, I can easily use the decocker on my p229 with my strong hand thumb.

 

[MGnoob]

If you're reholstering a traditional DA/SA gun, why would you not put your thumb on the hammer while you put it away? It makes it much safer to reholster, especially AIWB, and you will immediately know if you forgot to decock (which has never happened to me).

This can be a sound practice.. but do you draw with your thumb on the hammer for safety?
This is a more advanced than i assume the op is ready for....
I may try this out myself.(unloaded at first)
I just dont see the benefit of this practice unless your in a warzone and you need to switch to your sidearm from your primary and needed to make long range accurate shots immediately....
So it would be far to advanced/dangerous for my needs...it unlikely id ever ned to take a shot at more than 15-20 feet

 

[drgrant]

If you're reholstering a traditional DA/SA gun, why would you not put your thumb on the hammer while you put it away? It makes it much safer to reholster, especially AIWB, and you will immediately know if you forgot to decock (which has never happened to me).

I did that when I was a noob and I had a bunch of shitty holsters. I stopped doing it when I realized it was just a crutch for having a good holster and making a conscious decision to pay attention to holstering a firearm.

-Mike

 

[M1911]

When holstering a gun, you should pause, verify the position of your trigger finger, verify safety applied (if applicable), verify decocked (if applicable).

You can practice this dry in your basement. You need to practice this until you can't mess it up.

Remember, there is no prize for fastest holstering. Take your time and pay attention.


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