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DA/SA safety question
- Thread starter Pyromancer
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I started out with a ton of DA/SA guns (Sig, HK) and never had a problem with it, not even once. It's just something you instinctively do after you train with the gun enough.
-Mike
DPR
NES Member
No I have never done that and yes it is a concern. Chamber a round then decock, each time every time. You can practice this at the range with a simple drill that also helps with DA press. Load mag, chamber a round, decock, remove mag, press trigger, decock, press trigger again. Repeat.
roccoracer
NES Member
Why not carry cocked and locked? I carry my 1911, HK45 and P238 condition 1.
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With a typical P series Sig you can't really do that. And on some HKs the safety lever really sucks in terms of trying to disable the safety on the
fly, it's easier to just carry them chamber loaded, decocked, safety off. When I had an HK45 I had the LEM variant.
-Mike
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Springfield P-9 Factory Comp. that I have can be carried "cocked and locked"... Why decock and have two different trigger pulls? It must have a safety, is it so you don't have to use it? If so, just buy a Glock. ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Type too slow... P-9 has an ambitious safety which got smoothed up when I got the trigger done.
Type too slow... P-9 has an ambitious safety which got smoothed up when I got the trigger done.
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In the firearms accumulation game, one also accumulates various safety, decocker variants. Human nature being what it is it could be easy to forget what firearm/decocker style your packing in the heat of the moment or even on the range (you're so used to shooting that striker fired, you chamber and forget your now in SA mode not striker fired).
The same negatives that apply to manual safeties (forget to activate/deactivate) could apply to da/sa.
The same negatives that apply to manual safeties (forget to activate/deactivate) could apply to da/sa.
I wouldn't forget, I'll just leave it at that. It's kinda hard not to- the guns that have decockers nearly all weigh like 9000 lbs, are the width of a school bus (in some cases) and none of them look or feel like my Glocks or P320s do. Also nearly everything with a decocker has a hammer on it, and the striker fired guns without a hammer, that decock (like a Walther P99) have a striker indicator on them.
Even at my peak when I owned like 26 handguns, I never seemed to have a problem with this. I also don't "rush to holster" guns though, either, which probably helps.
-Mike
the funny part is that a DA/SA gun loaded and holstered while in single action is really no different than most striker guns with 4.5# triggers. it's the same. they're still drop safe and can only fire if trigger is pulled. A walther PPQ, HK VP9 or M&P pistol are all fully cocked strikers. same crap.
the idea of decocking has nothing to do with inherent safety of the gun, just the heavier DA trigger providing larger margin of error for the operator without having an ND.
as per above I just train to decock every time the gun comes back down from firing. this is how I was taught. it's pretty easy to build that into one's so called "muscle memory".
the idea of decocking has nothing to do with inherent safety of the gun, just the heavier DA trigger providing larger margin of error for the operator without having an ND.
as per above I just train to decock every time the gun comes back down from firing. this is how I was taught. it's pretty easy to build that into one's so called "muscle memory".
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Asaltweapon
NES Member
I've never forgotten. It's my habit.
Not quite, because a lot of DA/SA handguns break at a lot less than 4.5 pounds with the hammer cocked. Not to mention the obvious differences in pull length, etc. Plus 4.5 pounds on a striker gun is an anomaly or a really slicked up gun.
The closest example I've seen your example come to is a Steyr M series. Those ****ing guns, trigger doesnt move far at all, and despite the like 4 lb weight it feels like nothing. Least it has a trigger safety.
-Mike
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Pyromancer, be careful holstering or drawing with da/sa cocked is great way shoot yourself.l
You need to be slower, and pay attendion to what your doing.
its not a toy...read the manual...practice. soon you wont even having to think
You need to be slower, and pay attendion to what your doing.
its not a toy...read the manual...practice. soon you wont even having to think
A stock Sig or HK single action trigger is no shorter or lighter than many striker guns such as VP9, PPQ or canik. people install a 3.5# connector on a glock and again it's on par with many stock SA trigger pulls.
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...and it's just as easy to shoot oneself with a striker gun especially while going into a holster.
DPR
NES Member
I don't know that I'd trust dropping a Sig classic DA/SA with the hammer cocked. I thought once in SA that some internal safeties were removed. I know they are quality pistols but I wouldn't want to test your theory.
No, it's not. The sig P series I owned routinely broke at less than 4 lbs in SA mode, or at least they felt pretty damned light. I had some other ones that were probably on the other end of the scale as well. (my P229s sucked and felt like punching through a wall, bet they were over 6 lbs). That said, my lightest Glock trigger with a 3.5 in it is still just barely under 5 lbs. A 3.5 connector does not yield a 3.5 pound pull, not even close. (unless someone's monkeyed with the striker spring. )
Also, the take up slop in a USP or a Sig P series literally doesn't count. It practically weighs nothing so its like it's not even there. (take a pull gauge and you'll see what im talking about, initial vs peak pull. A cocked DA/SA handgun has little weight in the "slop phase" before it gets to the point of having to apply pressure to cause the sear to break.
I just think comparing the mechanics of the two systems is stupid to the point of absurdity. Not to mention every striker fired system is different, as well. Not to mention some DA/SA handguns might change the dynamics of the drop safety system, etc, when the handgun is cocked.
-Mike
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Asaltweapon
NES Member
I have 5 Da/SA Sigs and must respectfully disagree.
If you got a good one or a Legion, they're probably all under 4 lbs.
If you got a shit one (eg a generic p series made on the wrong day after nipplehead CEO Cohen took over) you probably have a 6 pound wall puncher in play.
I've had a bunch of both...
-Mike
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You are correct
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If you got a good one or a Legion, they're probably all under 4 lbs.
If you got a shit one (eg a generic p series made on the wrong day after nipplehead CEO Cohen took over) you probably have a 6 pound wall puncher in play.
I've had a bunch of both...
-Mike
I personally think the SRT makes more improvement than a few lbs less trigger pull but thats just me.
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DPR
NES Member
There are internal safeties. Like the ones that prevent the hammer from contacting the firing pin when dropped.
from my lyman digital trigger gauge:
Hammer
Sig P229 single action pull ~4.5-5 lbs
HK USP single action pull ~5 lbs
Striker
Glock 17 gen 3 with 3.5# connector overall pull ~5.5 lbs
Walther PPQ stock trigger pull ~5 lbs
Canik TP9SF stock pull ~4.5 lbs
the striker triggers tend to have more resistance in the takeup, but overall break is similar. my point is that all this hub-bub about making sure the hammer gun is decocked has nothing to do with inherent firearm safety and everything to do with protection from the operator.
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Im fairly new to the game, trying to connect the dots...in addition to the usual safety rules I'm also trying to establish some additional personal rules, based on my understanding of human nature. When dealing with properly operating firearms, the operator is the weakest link in the safety equation. A LOT of our guns could be thrown out of a moving car, and not fired. Distracted, startled, or groggy operator and all bets are off. And that's before taking into account normal, or above normal, levels of stupid.
To that end I've mostly purchased guns that operate the same: Insert magazine, rack slide, shoot. If equipled with safety, safety sweeps down to shoot a la 1911 or AR. K.I.S.S. principle.
Very interested in experiences with DA/SA, LEM, DAK etc.
Asaltweapon
NES Member
If you got a good one or a Legion, they're probably all under 4 lbs.
If you got a shit one (eg a generic p series made on the wrong day after nipplehead CEO Cohen took over) you probably have a 6 pound wall puncher in play.
I've had a bunch of both...
-Mike
239 is heavy at about the 5-6# pull. I like the pull on the other Sigs so I don't have a bitch and will not change them. Owned many 2# target triggers.
Asaltweapon
NES Member
IMO you need to learn and build on basics and be very good at them before you fill your head with what others are doing or like. Be yourself first.
DarthRevan
NES Member
I've always been so paranoid about a ND that I never forget to hit the decocker.
