Credit Card Industry Group Approves Plan to Track Sales of Guns and Ammo via New Merchant Code

Our big box gun store down here doesn't charge extra for CC and I get cash back so I got no problem charging. Plus they also sell fishing, outerwear etc so the CC company doesn't know what I bought, just where I bought and how much it cost.

Which bears the next question: How are they supposed to know if someone bought $1,500 worth of snake boots and deer feed or $1,500 worth of Taurus G2C's?
 
OnTheRoad said:
Our big box gun store down here doesn't charge extra for CC and I get cash back so I got no problem charging. Plus they also sell fishing, outerwear etc so the CC company doesn't know what I bought, just where I bought and how much it cost.

Which bears the next question: How are they supposed to know if someone bought $1,500 worth of snake boots and deer feed or $1,500 worth of Taurus G2C's?
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I hate to be the guy, BUT, NOBODY needs 1500 bux worth of Taurus G2Cs!!!! Hahaha!!!
 
crispnipz said:
Who cares? Does anybody really buy guns with credit cards? Every single gun purchase I've made, the seller charges more for using a credit card versus cash so that negates any points I might have earned.
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If it's an in-store purchase, I always use cash, but it's hard to use cash online.
Some of my gun purchases have been late night, too-good-to-pass-up deals from PSA, Davidsons, CDNN and a few others.
My friendly local FFL (a member here) already has his FFL on file with all of them, so making a purchase is very easy, but not with cash.
 
OnTheRoad said:
Our big box gun store down here doesn't charge extra for CC and I get cash back so I got no problem charging. Plus they also sell fishing, outerwear etc so the CC company doesn't know what I bought, just where I bought and how much it cost.

Which bears the next question: How are they supposed to know if someone bought $1,500 worth of snake boots and deer feed or $1,500 worth of Taurus G2C's?
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They don't know. The only time things get spiked out is when there are tax considerations for the items purchased.
 
This shouldn't have any immediate effect on me. Why? Because I never use credit or debit cards. Strictly cash only. 🤑 The only place I use my credit card is Amazon, other than that I never use it. Strange how we have willingly given the government the means to track us and then we complain about it when they do. Credit cards, online banking, EZ passes, cellphones, computers, automobiles, and store scanner cards can all track our movements. But we have chosen to use these things even though we know this.
 
Asaltweapon said:
Pitcher or catcher.
Does it really matter? He’s a two faced piece of shit on both sides of the same coin.
People like him are 1/2 of the friggen problem today.
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I agree with you 100%. I moved to his state last year (still better than MA, even with this scumbag).

I think he's even worse than the other side. The other side tells you in your face that they hate you and will do everything to f*** you, he's lying in your face that he's with you and than f***s you behind your back.
Well, not him, but you get the point.
 
Enzo said:
Cash is king…..
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One of my favorite sayings is "Cash Has No Enemies, So Let's Be Friends"

However, this is increasingly no longer the case.
You can't buy gas at BJ's or Sams Club with cash, you must use a card of some sort at the pumps. If you don't have a credit or debit card, they make you go into the store and buy a gift card with your cash, which can be used at the pumps.
Others I know of that won't accept cash are some town halls when you're trying to get a building permit, pay parking tickets or tax bills. They insist they can't take cash payments, check or credit cards only, but this is because they don't trust their own employees to not steal it.
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
"Who cares?"

I am so tired of that question.

The cops want to search you ... "who cares" if you are not doing anything wrong?

The gov wants to track you ... "wo cares" if you are not doing anything wrong?

They want you to register your gun purchases... "wo cares" if you are not doing anything wrong?

They want you to write your name on the ballot when voting ... "wo cares" if you are not doing anything wrong?

They want to track your GPS ... "wo cares" if you are not doing anything wrong?

They want to track your cash deposits ... "wo cares" if you are not doing anything wrong?

...

Your way of thinking is the problem.

What are you going to do when cash is banned? ... maybe then you will start caring?
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I agree with these principles but my point is not in the same manner of thinking as allowing government interference or violation of guaranteed rights. Big banks and CC companies have been doing nefarious things for years, including refusing to do business with people they don't like politically and sponsoring things which are abhorrent morally. The CC companies were never anybody's friend and a credit card isn't like a constitutional right. It's a private business, it always has been, and when using one, you've always been at their mercy. This is a silly thing to be upset over given everything else wrong.

Cash? Again, aside from fiat being monopoly money, the purchasing power of which is destined to decline forever, so who cares, which is why I like precious metals...aside from that, I'm curious how banning cash would work outside of a Biblical mark of the beast style change? Because at that point we'd have bigger problems. And in fact, if you're worried about cash being banned, shouldn't you be happy about this move which should encourage more people to buy in cash instead of using a card, thus prolonging the life of cash?
 
Zappa said:
If it's an in-store purchase, I always use cash, but it's hard to use cash online.
Some of my gun purchases have been late night, too-good-to-pass-up deals from PSA, Davidsons, CDNN and a few others.
My friendly local FFL (a member here) already has his FFL on file with all of them, so making a purchase is very easy, but not with cash.
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They should take crypto. Eff credit card companies.
 
Len-2A Training said:
I always use credit cards for everything unless they offer a cash discount. I get cash back on the ccs and pay them off in full every month.

I even bought a new car on credit cards once, that was a nice cash-back deal!
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I went to the dealer a few months ago to pick up my new car, I had a little over 44 grand in cash, $100 dollar bills to pay for it.

They would not accept cash, and only took CC's up to $500 for a deposit.

I had to trudge to the closest branch of my bank and get a check.

If I could have put it on my CC I would have, although banks cut back on credit limits about 10 years ago, I had one card with a 100K limit on it, I think it is 20K now.
 
appraiser said:
I went to the dealer a few months ago to pick up my new car, I had a little over 44 grand in cash, $100 dollar bills to pay for it.

They would not accept cash, and only took CC's up to $500 for a deposit.

I had to trudge to the closest branch of my bank and get a check.

If I could have put it on my CC I would have, although banks cut back on credit limits about 10 years ago, I had one card with a 100K limit on it, I think it is 20K now.
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When I bought the car, the dealership would only charge up to $5K on each card (dealership policy), so they used multiple ccs for my transaction.
 
Each merchant has one MCC. You can bet that Walmart, Bass Pro, and Academy won't be grouped as "gun dealers", but your LGS will.

Lots of LGS sell a ton of stuff besides guns. Camping and non-gun hunting gear, fishing and archery gear, even boats and boating gear.

Everything they sell will be grouped under that same MCC, and there is no detail about what is actually purchased. If I went up to LL Cote up in Errol and bought a snowmobile, ATV, kayak, and a truckload of camping gear all on plastic, it would be tens of thousands of dollars coded exactly the same as if I'd bought guns and ammo.

Same for Village Gun Store in Whitefield; if I bought knives, flashlights, hunting gear, etc., it would all be under the "gun dealer" MCC.
 
If this is going to be a new thing then the only thing left is to get creative. LGSs should start accepting CashApp, crypto, money orders (is there an electronic version of Western Union?) or some other type of payment method.
I’d like to see what they say when you’re sending money to an LGS with the CashTag of $TheFluffyBunnyStore or something like that lol.
 
Unless it was a gunbroker item that I paid with money order, I use the card for my gun and ammo purchases because there really isn't another way to do it.

I will have go check into that Credova or whatever it is and see if that gets the same merchant code when they bill my credit card monthly. I may as well start using that payment method as I'd probably qualify for the 90 day interest free offer. My credit card randomly decides when it gives me that for a purchase.
 
VetteGirlMA said:
There's no legislation. The only legislation would be making it illegal for banks to send credit card transactions to the government. But I'm sure that old turtle head is working hard to save us all, or maybe he's working for ExxonMobil to get some drilling rights.
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I don’t think the gun control advocates have thought this through, but have decided they don’t need to establish the value of the dataset yet - it’s just a “win” to be capitalized later. I find ingenuous their stated purpose of flagging suspicious purchases of firearms and ammo, which is certainly just a ruse to create a dataset linking credit card holder and firearms/ammo purchases. A dataset cannot be legally/illegally obtained and exploited unless that dataset exists, so I think that’s their goal. Then they start trying to obtain de-identified metadata on that dataset to prove utility in crime-fighting so they can propose legislation that intends to eventually drive down to the person/transaction level.

But I think they’ll fail to find any initial utility. Look at the Globe’s “The Mill” exposé - they got mileage from publicly accessible data (FOI-able and published datasets) to make their story. Short of a person-level list of who bought guns/ammo from the CC dataset, there’s little new to do with any de-identified metadata. I’d worry about some social justice warrior at a CC processor that leaked the data to the dark interwebs before I’d worry about anything else.

That said, it’s a step down the slippery slope to registration & confiscation that must be stopped. The 2021 Nat’l Firearms Survey found 32% owned guns and other surveys find 40%+ of household own guns (probably underestimates). It doesn’t take to much imagination to figure what a Google Maps app would look like drilling down to the street address for gun ownership.

8A0B40D1-39A6-4087-A5CB-77D7C23D03CA.jpeg
 
Zappa said:
because they don't trust their own employees to not steal it.
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I had some cash stolen by a state employee. At the courthouse (Concord)!

I had paid a fine in cash and insisted on a receipt, which they seemed taken aback about.

Needless to say, the money disappeared and I received a nice bench warrant for non-payment about a month later ...

Showed up at the courthouse, showed them the receipt and they make a copy, the ada's office says you'll need to appear before the judge. I say, nope. Take care of your problem. I have to go to work, bye.
 
MaverickNH said:
I don’t think the gun control advocates have thought this through, but have decided they don’t need to establish the value of the dataset yet - it’s just a “win” to be capitalized later. I find ingenuous their stated purpose of flagging suspicious purchases of firearms and ammo, which is certainly just a ruse to create a dataset linking credit card holder and firearms/ammo purchases. A dataset cannot be legally/illegally obtained and exploited unless that dataset exists, so I think that’s their goal. Then they start trying to obtain de-identified metadata on that dataset to prove utility in crime-fighting so they can propose legislation that intends to eventually drive down to the person/transaction level.

But I think they’ll fail to find any initial utility. Look at the Globe’s “The Mill” exposé - they got mileage from publicly accessible data (FOI-able and published datasets) to make their story. Short of a person-level list of who bought guns/ammo from the CC dataset, there’s little new to do with any de-identified metadata. I’d worry about some social justice warrior at a CC processor that leaked the data to the dark interwebs before I’d worry about anything else.

That said, it’s a step down the slippery slope to registration & confiscation that must be stopped. The 2021 Nat’l Firearms Survey found 32% owned guns and other surveys find 40%+ of household own guns (probably underestimates). It doesn’t take to much imagination to figure what a Google Maps app would look like drilling down to the street address for gun ownership.

View attachment 660813
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It's a connection between a physical transaction and exchange of goods. The banks will take the credit card feed at the time of settlement, filter out all of the MCC codes for firearm shops and then 'voluntarily' send it to the government. This will happen at the VS/MC/Amex level so the banks will have no say in it. Then the government has the cardholder name, exp date, amount of the swipe and where the swipe happened. So if someone is going to a gun shop and a friend is putting the transaction on a credit card for a friend who will repay them, they can flag it as a straw purchase and use it for maximum persecution.

There is one other alternative and that being with a new code, the credit card companies can use the code to deny sales to someone with the new merchant code. That's why I said its better to be a sporting goods store, home improvement store than to be a gun shop.

What is being proposed is trivially overcome. In fact it's so trivial it's almost comical.

Personally I think it's high time to get gun shops on board with crypto. They (government) has the 4473 that's more than enough. The last thing I want the government to know is where I am, where I've been, what am I spending my money on. Weiner liberals will think it's all good and then remember those 87,000 new IRS agents? What do you think is going to happen when they put that feed through an AI algorithm and find out someone has a side gig getting paid under the table to mow the neighbors lawn? They're going to be screwed. Be careful what you wish for, especially liberals who work for and represent non-profits. Tracking misuse of funds will also be a trivial action as well.
 
Sparky123 said:
EZ passes
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This is a real cluster f*ck in some cases. In you cross the GW bridge there is no option for a cash payment. They send you the bill based on scanning your plate. The toll was like $18.95 and then NJ adds a $50 collection fee. 😡 I just happen to know this because my friend does not have an EZPass and we went down south. He got the bill for the GW and was trying to make me pay half the billing charge. I told him to pound sand.
 
VetteGirlMA said:
This will happen at the VS/MC/Amex level so the banks will have no say in it.
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It might happen at the payment processor level or the issuing bank level. It really doesn't matter because what will happen is the CC networks will issue another "mandate" that basically say do this or you can't issue/process the cards. The CC networks issue new mandates a few times a year.
 
ddraper said:
This is a real cluster f*ck in some cases. In you cross the GW bridge there is no option for a cash payment. They send you the bill based on scanning your plate. The toll was like $18.95 and then NJ adds a $50 collection fee. 😡 I just happen to know this because my friend does not have an EZPass and we went down south. He got the bill for the GW and was trying to make me pay half the billing charge. I told him to pound sand.
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Lol, you sound like a nice friend. Hope you at least gave him some gas money on your trip!
 
ProGun said:
Lol, you sound like a nice friend. Hope you at least gave him some gas money on your trip!
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Look, this guy has spent years trying to stay off the grid and do all the sovereign citizen stuff. I can't even begin to recount how many times this has caused endless hassles. Especially when his car had the wrong plate on it because he does not believe in registering a car and he has no drivers license and then we get pulled over and they tow the car etc. It just so happen we were in his girl friends car which is registered. I have an EZ Pass and we could have used it but he didn't want to.

I may be a cheapo but I'm not a total skinflint. I gave him gas money and paid tolls. Part of the reason I wouldn't pay the billing fee was just to wind him up and get him going. Nothing like an epic rant [rofl]
 
When you set up your Credit Card profile can't you select something other then a Gun store as your MCC? I would figure that the CC companies are not very strict on what you choose as they probably don't want to be stuck in the middle of this mess either.
 

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