Cracked weld on my AR550 steel target.

[DW357]

So I've had this Evil Roy target from Action Targets for over 3 years and I've had to replace the target head twice due to a cracked weld. I originally bought the target from Brownells and they only offer the AR500 steel which lasted maybe a little over a year before the target head fell off from the weld cracking. I call up Action Targets and they said they would ship me a AR550 target if I paid the price difference between the AR500 and AR550 which was $20, I had no issues with that so I paid the $20 and they shipped me the new target. Now about 2 years later the AR550 steel target weld is now severely cracked and the target is going to fall off with a few hundred more shots of 7.62x39.

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I shoot at it with rifle, only 7.62x39 no .223 or 5.56 at 120 yards. They recommend 100+ yards for velocities 3,000 fps and higher. So I'm definitely below the velocity and beyond the minimum distance. In the 2 years I've had the AR550 it's certainly been shot at thousands of times with x39 and various pistol calibers (9mm, 38/.357 mag) which are nothing compared to x39. The stand is chewed up a bit from when I first got my SKS and was getting it sighted in lol.

So now I called them up and the guy told me it's beyond the 1 year warranty so he can't replace it free of charge which I didn't know they only had a 1 year warranty but I know now. He told me "I'm able to give you a pretty steep discount on a replacement. Replacement plates run $95 but I can get you one for $42.53 to cover the cost of fabrication."

I emailed him back saying I'll take the steep discount and also asked if the welds are suppose to crack after 1-2 years of use? I haven't heard back from him yet as it was late in the day that I contacted them.

They're a top notch company but I was curious if anyone else has the same target and has encountered the same issue? Or if others have similar AR550 targets that are welded to something. I've dealt with this twice and I thought for what you pay for the target (over $200 with shipping if you buy directly from them or about $125 from Brownells shipped), that it should be a little more durable but maybe my expectations are too high.

http://store.actiontarget.com/evilroyline/evil-roy-practice-target.html

They're going to have free shipping on all of their targets during the NRA annual meeting this weekend (4/25-4/27 only), coupon code SHIPFREE

 

[groundscrapers]

why not just save the money and get it welded better?

 

[stinger35]

why not just save the money and get it welded better?

That was my first thought as well.

 

[DW357]

why not just save the money and get it welded better?

I had the first AR500 target welded back to the bracket by some boat welders/machinists where my dad keeps his boat. I haven't shot that target yet so I don't know how long that weld will hold up for. Anyone have much experience welding AR550 steel to regular standard steel? Any NES welders? Just curious if it's a quick/easy thing to do.

 

[DW357]

That was my first thought as well.

I'm just curious if this is typical for a weld to crack on a target like this. Yeah I'll probably have to bring it down to my dad's buddies and have them weld it back. Silly to keep paying every 1-2 years for a replacement, even if it only $42.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

that sucks man. I've found that with stuff your going to be shooting with a rifle, the best steel targets are the ones that aren't welded. just a regular gong with holes drilled through it mounted with chain, if you break the chain no big deal.

 

[DW357]

that sucks man. I've found that with stuff your going to be shooting with a rifle, the best steel targets are the ones that aren't welded. just a regular gong with holes drilled through it mounted with chain, if you break the chain no big deal.

Good point. I just love this target because of the folding tripod, it's so easy to throw in the trunk and bring to the range.

 

[stinger35]

There are guys that can weld, and then those that can actually weld for real. I am neither, but I would think someone could tune that up for you properly.

 

[SJan]

Every bullet strike is about 1500 ft/lb of energy. Something has to fail eventually.

 

[DW357]

Every bullet strike is about 1500 ft/lb of energy. Something has to fail eventually.

True, I guess I shouldn't expect it to last forever lol.

 

[JoeyD]

I would say wrong welding prep, take it to a local welder and they will fix it cheap enough and probably tell you why it broke.

 

[beaker]

Some info on welding this stuff...

http://www.thefabricator.com/article/consumables/cracking-the-case

 

[DW357]

There are guys that can weld, and then those that can actually weld for real. I am neither, but I would think someone could tune that up for you properly.

Yeah it would be nice to find an NES welder near my area. Would it cost less than $42 to have someone weld it back I wonder? I have no idea how much welders get paid. I'll get in contact with those marine welders from a couple years ago and maybe they'll do it for free again lol.

 

[MassMark]

Its only my experience, not my expert opinion, that welded brackets fail - at least on the targets I've had. The system I find works the best is a steel target with a bracket attached via bolt. The only thing I've had fail in thousands of rounds are the bolts themselves and that's an easy fix...Even that takes quite a bit of fire to occur.

 

[rocket500]

You're shooting it with a rifle- it ain't going to last forever.

 

[DW357]

I would say wrong welding prep, take it to a local welder and they will fix it cheap enough and probably tell you why it broke.

Yeah I'll probably do some searching on here to find some NES welders and if I can't find any closeby, I'll bring it down to the boat welders who welded the first target I had.

 

[DW357]

Its only my experience, not my expert opinion, that welded brackets fail - at least on the targets I've had. The system I find works the best is a steel target with a bracket attached via bolt. The only thing I've had fail in thousands of rounds are the bolts themselves and that's an easy fix...Even that takes quite a bit of fire to occur.

I mean it makes sense, the weld would be the weakest link next to the bolts that hold the bracket to the stand. But the bolts are hidden behind the target head so.

Do you have any pictures or links of the targets that you use with the bolts?

 

[[cerberus]]

I am not surprised the weld is cracking like that. I am actually kind of surprised the plate is still as hard as it is in the middle. I would think with the amount of heat they are putting in the plate to weld it, it would take the hardness right out.


Taking it to anyone who is "better" at welding won't solve your problem, it looks like it cracked right down the center of the weld bead. It was a good weld for that to happen, no problems with penetration or being to hot/cold. I would assume that the plate started to dish from all of the rounds hitting one side. This resulted in stretching of the back surface material, but the weld being stronger than the base metal resisted until it just gave up the ghost.

If I would recomend anything, would be to put minimal weld back on. Instead of a full perimeter weld, just have a bead put along the top and bottom horizontals It may allow the plate to flex a little more without stressing the weld bead.

 

[MassMark]

I mean it makes sense, the weld would be the weakest link next to the bolts that hold the bracket to the stand. But the bolts are hidden behind the target head so.

Do you have any pictures or links of the targets that you use with the bolts?

I've got pics somewhere for sure - nothing handy, but I'll take a look...

 

[[cerberus]]

Its only my experience, not my expert opinion, that welded brackets fail - at least on the targets I've had. The system I find works the best is a steel target with a bracket attached via bolt. The only thing I've had fail in thousands of rounds are the bolts themselves and that's an easy fix...Even that takes quite a bit of fire to occur.

You're shooting it with a rifle- it ain't going to last forever.

I built this rifle swinger for a gentlemen in the Londonderry area last summer. I did not want to weld on AR500 so I bolted the plates to a steel base. I need to get in touch because I bet this is still going strong minus some bolts.

 

[DW357]

I am not surprised the weld is cracking like that. I am actually kind of surprised the plate is still as hard as it is in the middle. I would think with the amount of heat they are putting in the plate to weld it, it would take the hardness right out.


Taking it to anyone who is "better" at welding won't solve your problem, it looks like it cracked right down the center of the weld bead. It was a good weld for that to happen, no problems with penetration or being to hot/cold. I would assume that the plate started to dish from all of the rounds hitting one side. This resulted in stretching of the back surface material, but the weld being stronger than the base metal resisted until it just gave up the ghost.

If I would recomend anything, would be to put minimal weld back on. Instead of a full perimeter weld, just have a bead put along the top and bottom horizontals It may allow the plate to flex a little more without stressing the weld bead.

I didn't even think of that. I did notice looking at the target from above, I can easily notice that it is slightly bent/arched backwards from all of the shots hitting it. If I get it welded back, I'll make sure to mention only welding the top and bottom horizontals. Worth a shot.

- - - Updated - - -

I built this rifle swinger for a gentlemen in the Londonderry area last summer. I did not want to weld on AR500 so I bolted the plates to a steel base. I need to get in touch because I bet this is still going strong minus some bolts.

Damn that is a nice target. I'd love to have one of those but I don't have a truck (older VW Jetta) to put that in. Does it disassemble? That's the one good thing about the Action Targets, is the portability but it seems the longevity is an issue due to welding rather than a bolt design.

 

[[cerberus]]

Yeah it all comes apart with snap pins and fits in a pretty tight package.

 

[DW357]

Yeah it all comes apart with snap pins and fits in a pretty tight package.

Sweet. Can I ask how much a target like that costs? Do you make smaller ones with just a single spinning target rather than 3?

 

[[cerberus]]

Sweet. Can I ask how much a target like that costs? Do you make smaller ones with just a single spinning target rather than 3?

I do not recall what I charged, but they are all custom and is just a matter of adjusting tube length and what not. A single target would be a lot less than the one above since it is pretty much a third of the work and material.

 

[DW357]

I do not recall what I charged, but they are all custom and is just a matter of adjusting tube length and what not. A single target would be a lot less than the one above since it is pretty much a third of the work and material.

Cool. I'll have to keep you in mind in the future. Looks like I just missed the gong group buy. I may have to try a simpler design like hanging a gong from a wood or metal frame and not worry about welds cracking.

 

[Jason m]

Anything AR or T-1 should be welded with a 100K filler, like 11018 or in wire form 100K, you ( or the company you bought from ) used a 70K wire probably. It can and will hold but the failure is bound to happen.
I blame the over all design of the target for the weld failure on this one, there is no support on the back side of the target before it enters its holding point. It a 8" or round target with a 2-3" support being struck at every point. It would be one thing if you hit dead center all day long ( and Im not calling you a bad shot, lol ) but that doesn't happen in this case.

I wish you were closer I can have that fixed up in a 30 minutes time with reinforcements, been in this field for 20 plus years and see it all. Thats a design failure more than a weld one.

Jason.

 

[mac1911]

I would say that weld held upxpretty good......I'm not a welder but the "weld " has appeared in your picture to have sepperated from the bracket. The weld it self appears to intact. So a few things happen either the weld did not penatrate the bracket or the steel o. The bracket got a little hard during the welding process.

 

[DW357]

Anything AR or T-1 should be welded with a 100K filler, like 11018 or in wire form 100K, you ( or the company you bought from ) used a 70K wire probably. It can and will hold but the failure is bound to happen.
I blame the over all design of the target for the weld failure on this one, there is no support on the back side of the target before it enters its holding point. It a 8" or round target with a 2-3" support being struck at every point. It would be one thing if you hit dead center all day long ( and Im not calling you a bad shot, lol ) but that doesn't happen in this case.

I wish you were closer I can have that fixed up in a 30 minutes time with reinforcements, been in this field for 20 plus years and see it all. Thats a design failure more than a weld one.

Jason.

Yeah I always wondered why they couldn't use a larger support on the back side. Have a square or circular bracket/weld that's almost the diameter of the target to have more reinforcement/support. They're a huge company and you'd think they would redesign the bracket/weld because I can't imagine I'm the only one who had the weld break.

Yeah I definitely didn't hit dead center all day when I first got my SKS and AK, I'm getting a little better now though lol.

 

[Almostelmo]

They're a huge company and you'd think they would redesign the bracket/weld because I can't imagine I'm the only one who had the weld break.

Planned obsolescence?

From the pics, the design looks like every time you hit the plate it's going to want to put leverage on the bottom of the bracket. If you repaired it with vertical welds only, I'd bet they'd start to crack at the bottom pretty quickly. Having some sort of gusset welded to the entire length of the plate, top to bottom, might help.

Edit: now that I've thought about this a bit, I wonder if they're heat treating after welding? You're not supposed to heat up AR500 because if affects its harness AFAIK. I wonder if it would be a better idea to only weld on the edges of the target, assuming the edges are already compromised from cutting, you wouldn't be doing any damage to the center of the plate. A better idea entirely would be to ditch the welding altogether and make some sort of bracket to hold the target on the outside edges.

 

[groundscrapers]

Attach it with something less brittle. Braising may be an option. If you were out in wmass I would weld it for ya no problem.