Condominium Rules against guns?

[Palladin]

?

WINNER!!!!!

 

[cflshooter]

I live in a Boston condo where the majority of owners are politically left of Obama. I've been on condo board for the last 5 years and I basically run the building. If any of them knew what I had in my place they would no doubt s**t a brick. So I keep it myself. I just don't need the grief. Now if I could just get my mailman to put my cheaper than dirt, midway, brownell, etc catalogs in box instead left out for everyone to see!

 

[Mustang5L5]

My condo doesn't have any rules in place...yet. Hopefully they won't. I've been seen toting a rifle case around and nobody has said a thing yet.

All it takes is one idiot on a mission to ruin that. Every condo has "that guy" and in my unit, "my guy" hates dogs with a passion. No dog for me so he leaves me alone.

I've been in a condo for two years. Hate it. It's like living in my college dorm with people I have nothing in common woth and have my life regulated by an association. Gonna rent it for a while and see how that goes. If its a PITA I'm selling.

 

[dhuze]

?

Why would you say that? He only joined to revive a year old thread with a comment on how he plans to violate condo owners second amendment right.

 

[Realtor MA]

Condo gun laws are a very sensible question that I had never thought about. I was more concerned about being able to afford a place.

Yesterday, I received a phone call from the Police. Apparently one of the neighbors at my Condo building accidentally fired his gun. The bullet went through all my Condo walls and missed my tenants head by 12". I'm glad he wasn't hurt but it's upsetting.

I have to sort through the bi-laws and maybe we'll have to change something. My neighbor wasn't arrested. I'm not sure what his consequences are if any?

I"m glad everyone is ok and I can understand that you might be worried.

If you really want to make the place safe you should focus on the following items. These things have a far more likely chance of hurting someone. Far more likely!

1)No open flame of any kind. Candles, matches, barbeques
2)Ban any form of natural gas and/or propane on the premises.
2a) Ban oil too. That stuff burns pretty good.
3)Ban any and all vehicles from the premises. They contain gasoline and they can run people over.
4)If the roof is covered with more than 6 inches of snow move everyone to a shelter
5)Ban the use of electricity on the premises. It can kill you and it can start a fire.
6)Ban storage of any valuables. They attract criminals.
7)Ban the use of any basements. There may be radon gas.
8)Ban the use of water. It can cause mold which can be toxic.
9)Of course no silverware, tools or knives
10) no pools
11)skateboards, bicycles etc have to go too

that should cover you for now. Once you finish up with those 11 items you'll be pretty safe.
If I missed anything I'm sure others will chime in.

 

[fencer]

Condo gun laws are a very sensible question that I had never thought about. I was more concerned about being able to afford a place.

Yesterday, I received a phone call from the Police. Apparently one of the neighbors at my Condo building accidentally fired his gun. The bullet went through all my Condo walls and missed my tenants head by 12". I'm glad he wasn't hurt but it's upsetting.

I have to sort through the bi-laws and maybe we'll have to change something. My neighbor wasn't arrested. I'm not sure what his consequences are if any?

You are about 10,000 times more likely to have one of your neighbors run you over with their car. Maybe while you are sorting through the bi-laws you should ban cars. Or maybe just make people park them in a lot down the street and shuttle them to their units.

I would live in a tent in the woods before I bought a condo. The idea that a bunch of my neighbors could dictate so much of my daily life makes me want to vomit. So you go ahead and sit down with a bunch of the other communist pukes in your condo assoc and decide what Constitutional Rights you think your neighbors are entitled to. Make sure you provide yourselves the ability to arbitrarily search your neighbors condos too, if you think they might be breaking the rules.

 

[FSTC]

I"m glad everyone is ok and I can understand that you might be worried.

If you really want to make the place safe you should focus on the following items. These things have a far more likely chance of hurting someone. Far more likely!

1)No open flame of any kind. Candles, matches, barbeques
2)Ban any form of natural gas and/or propane on the premises.
2a) Ban oil too. That stuff burns pretty good.
3)Ban any and all vehicles from the premises. They contain gasoline and they can run people over.
4)If the roof is covered with more than 6 inches of snow move everyone to a shelter
5)Ban the use of electricity on the premises. It can kill you and it can start a fire.
6)Ban storage of any valuables. They attract criminals.
7)Ban the use of any basements. There may be radon gas.
8)Ban the use of water. It can cause mold which can be toxic.
9)Of course no silverware, tools or knives
10) no pools
11)skateboards, bicycles etc have to go too

that should cover you for now. Once you finish up with those 11 items you'll be pretty safe.
If I missed anything I'm sure others will chime in.

You should also ban DHMO.
It is a major component of acid rain.
as a vapor it can cause severe burns.
If you inhale too much of it it will kill you.
It encourages mold growth
It is used in the production of marijuana and other illicit drugs
Its even found in raw sewage!
And the Bush administration refused to ban it!

Think of the kids...and your neighbors

 

[SHOOTTOOT]

Agree!

My condo doesn't have any rules in place...yet. Hopefully they won't. I've been seen toting a rifle case around and nobody has said a thing yet.

All it takes is one idiot on a mission to ruin that. Every condo has "that guy" and in my unit, "my guy" hates dogs with a passion. No dog for me so he leaves me alone.

I've been in a condo for two years. Hate it. It's like living in my college dorm with people I have nothing in common woth and have my life regulated by an association. Gonna rent it for a while and see how that goes. If its a PITA I'm selling.

I moved out of my Condo and am renting it out. CRABS. I'm living in a Town House currently. I did enjoy living in a College Dorm. Lots of people to talk to.

What I think is funny is not so much the Condo Association but the Society I live in is dictating my life! People aren't handling their finances very well so my property value is affected. I would love to sell!

People aren't valuing Marriage so we have lots of single Mothers getting tax dollar assistance. Children are draining Teachers more since they aren't being raised properly at home. They aren't coming prepared for School. My quality of life is affected by the Society around me.

Guns don't protect from the internal breakdown of a Society! That's the real threat America! Wake up! The internal breakdown is what's making us a very vulnerable Nation. "legalized abortion" Killing our own Children for Pete's sake! A bunch of idiots with guns!

 

[P-14]

All it takes is one idiot on a mission to ruin that. Every condo has "that guy" and in my unit, "my guy" hates dogs with a passion. No dog for me so he leaves me alone.

We call them condo nazis. Every association has one or two. Since I became a Trustee of the association, they are placated but not really listened to.

Take the initiative. Meet your neighbors. It can get better.

 

[maritz01]

We had a condo for 10 years. It served its purpose then bought a house. Things at first went well than a new Condo Board took over and things went out of control. One of the older Board members got a death threat. Right after that it went as far as to someone severing a gas line to a person's townhouse. Just my 2 cents. Take your money and find a house you can afford.

Mike

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There are some prosecutions in Las Vegas over a team that bought 1/20th shares of condos; ran people for the board; rigged elections and siphoned the money off to preferred (and overpriced) vendors. You need to exercise great care in watching the condo association and, in the case of the Las Vegas scam, have no skeletons in your closet (as the investors hired PIs to dig up dirt on anyone who dared oppose their election to the board).

There are limits on what rules a condo assn can impose and enforce. For example, an association can regulate your exterior decorations, but probably can't regulate what reading material or movies you have possess or transport to/from your unit.

Does anyone on this list know (a) Is there any defined history of condo assns in MA imposing "no guns" rules?, and (b) If such a rule would be enforceable under MGL?

 

[P-14]

We had a condo for 10 years. It served its purpose then bought a house. Things at first went well than a new Condo Board took over and things went out of control. One of the older Board members got a death threat. Went as far to some one severing a gas line to a person's townhouse. Just my 2 cents. Take your money and find a house you can afford.

Mike

We're on the other end of that timeline. Had a house for 23 years and a condo now for almost 8. We like not mowing the lawn or shoveling the snow. And we're 10 minutes from downtown and 15 minutes from work in Cambridge. Lots of win for us. And, since I became a Trustee 4 years ago, problems with other owners and the management company disappeared.

The Trustees work hard listening to the Owners and trying to do what's best for all of them. The 3 of us try hard not to go bat-*hit crazy enforcing the bylaws. And, for the most part we have good owners.

 

[Realtor MA]

I've reviewed lots of condo docs and I've been in involved in creating them for new associations. I have never seen any that mention guns.

There are some prosecutions in Las Vegas over a team that bought 1/20th shares of condos; ran people for the board; rigged elections and siphoned the money off to preferred (and overpriced) vendors. You need to exercise great care in watching the condo association and, in the case of the Las Vegas scam, have no skeletons in your closet (as the investors hired PIs to dig up dirt on anyone who dared oppose their election to the board).

There are limits on what rules a condo assn can impose and enforce. For example, an association can regulate your exterior decorations, but probably can't regulate what reading material or movies you have possess or transport to/from your unit.

Does anyone on this list know (a) Is there any defined history of condo assns in MA imposing "no guns" rules?, and (b) If such a rule would be enforceable under MGL?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Does anyone on this list know (a) Is there any defined history of condo assns in MA imposing "no guns" rules?, and (b) If such a rule would be enforceable under MGL?

I'm not aware of any such rules in MA (or anywhere) condo by-laws, however in answer to (b):

- A contract is a legally enforceable document in any appropriate court.
- The court assumes that if you SIGN it, you are AWARE of the document and what you are legally entitled to do or not (the old "ignorance is no excuse").
- Violations are civil matters and can/are taken up in civil lawsuits, eviction proceedings, etc.
- So, legally the condo association can move for eviction, fine you, etc. for violations of their by-laws.

I have served such legal notices to "victims" of condo associations in MA for such travesties as having a small rip in a back-door screen, orienting a table on a back porch (both were stand-alone houses that had been "condo-ized") 90degrees out-of-sync with the by-laws and had accrued $4000.00 in fines for their travesties.

ETA: I recall reading of one condo (think it was in FL) that was moving for eviction of an "owner" who violated their "no trucks on premises" by-law. She bought a pickup truck and had parked it at the condo of course. This was when pick-up trucks started to become popular acquisitions for personal use (not strictly for business people hauling goods to customers). So, yes, they can write strange stuff in condo by-laws and enforce them legally.

 

[center442]

I moved out of my Condo and am renting it out. CRABS. I'm living in a Town House currently. I did enjoy living in a College Dorm. Lots of people to talk to.

What I think is funny is not so much the Condo Association but the Society I live in is dictating my life! People aren't handling their finances very well so my property value is affected. I would love to sell!

People aren't valuing Marriage so we have lots of single Mothers getting tax dollar assistance. Children are draining Teachers more since they aren't being raised properly at home. They aren't coming prepared for School. My quality of life is affected by the Society around me.

Guns don't protect from the internal breakdown of a Society! That's the real threat America! Wake up! The internal breakdown is what's making us a very vulnerable Nation. "legalized abortion" Killing our own Children for Pete's sake! A bunch of idiots with guns!

 

[Rockrivr1]

I moved out of my Condo and am renting it out. CRABS. I'm living in a Town House currently. I did enjoy living in a College Dorm. Lots of people to talk to.

What I think is funny is not so much the Condo Association but the Society I live in is dictating my life! People aren't handling their finances very well so my property value is affected. I would love to sell!

People aren't valuing Marriage so we have lots of single Mothers getting tax dollar assistance. Children are draining Teachers more since they aren't being raised properly at home. They aren't coming prepared for School. My quality of life is affected by the Society around me.

Guns don't protect from the internal breakdown of a Society! That's the real threat America! Wake up! The internal breakdown is what's making us a very vulnerable Nation. "legalized abortion" Killing our own Children for Pete's sake! A bunch of idiots with guns!

Yeah, how is it this post hasn't been locked yet? Troll, abortion, slams on single moms, etc'. This one's not going to last much longer.

 

[wahsben]

You should also ban DHMO.
It is a major component of acid rain.
as a vapor it can cause severe burns.
If you inhale too much of it it will kill you.
It encourages mold growth
It is used in the production of marijuana and other illicit drugs
Its even found in raw sewage!
And the Bush administration refused to ban it!

Think of the kids...and your neighbors

Also there is alot of it in our bodies. Oh the horror of water!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I'm not aware of any such rules in MA (or anywhere) condo by-laws, however in answer to (b):

- A contract is a legally enforceable document in any appropriate court.
- The court assumes that if you SIGN it, you are AWARE of the document and what you are legally entitled to do or not (the old "ignorance is no excuse").

It's not that simple. Some contract terms are unenforceable, and the court may also consider the reasonableness of the terms as well as when they were passed (even if you sign a "majority vote can change rules" clause, it could influence the decision if were added after you bought). Some terms a court would probably not enforce:

- Condo association, may upon issuance of an internal letter of authorization (a "condo security letter") issued by the trustees, enter any condo on a no-knock basis at any time to search for any Republican campaign literature. Condo owner agrees association's representatives may use any degree of force necessary to enforce this clause, and such force shall not be considered assault. Condo resident agrees that a fine of $1000 shall be levied for each document advocating republicans be elected to office.

- Condo owner agrees that title to condo, exclusive of mortgage lien, transfers immediately to the condo association if any pickup truck is parked in the driveway for more than 10 minutes.

So, unless both of the above are "legally enforceable in any appropriate court", the question is not "Is any condo rule passed in a manner consistent with the contract enforceable", but "which rules are enforceable?".

Similarly, courts have generally upheld mandatory "binding arbitration" clauses in contracts, however, it is unlikely a court would uphold a clause that read "Condo association's internal appeal in any dispute shall be final, and owner agrees that he does not have a right to bring a dispute to court or any arbitration proceeding". There are many other examples of unenforceable contract clauses, many less obvious than the extreme examples I have cited to prove the answer is not as simple as "it's a contract therefore enforceable".

So, back to the original question - any specific examples of a no-gun policy in a condo being held as either enforceable or unenforceable by a MA court?

I am reminded of the woman who was offered $1M for a roll in the sack, and responded indignantly when offered $20 saying "what kind of woman do you think I am?". The response was "we've already established that, we're just negotiating price."