I have never owned a condominium but am considering moving to one. Has anyone experienced rules against gun ownership as part of condominium agreements? I know this should be a foolish question, but I am in MA.
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Condominium Rules against guns?
- Thread starter Dave C
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Read the covenants first.
George D
NES Member
Get a copy of the "condo docs". This would be a list of rules and regulations on what is allowed/not allowed. Nothing worse than buying a condo and finding out later that it seriously conflicts with your lifestyle.
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Its possible - be sure to read the docs.
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There are some condo associations that do ban guns.
You need to make sure that the condo you buy would let you rent it out in case you decided to move, but retain ownership.
My buddy bought a condo, and he has kids now. The association will not let him rent it out. Sell it, or live in it, but no renting out to other people.....
My buddy bought a condo, and he has kids now. The association will not let him rent it out. Sell it, or live in it, but no renting out to other people.....
P-14
NES Member
You have to read the bylaws and the master deed BEFORE you buy. I'm one of 3 trustees of our Condo Association and you may rent out one unit you own, but may not rent 2 or more units (if you own them). Thus, this prevents companies from buying 3 or 4 and renting them out.
There has never been a rule against firearms in our bylaws (and I'm going to keep it that way if it ever comes up). But, there are rules about where you can and can't stack your firewood for our fireplaces and what color your trash bags have to be (!).
Read it carefully, but I would guess that most do not list firearms.
There has never been a rule against firearms in our bylaws (and I'm going to keep it that way if it ever comes up). But, there are rules about where you can and can't stack your firewood for our fireplaces and what color your trash bags have to be (!).
Read it carefully, but I would guess that most do not list firearms.
Sorry to help side-track this, but I just wanted to point out that many mortgages also restrict renting.
BillyBoy
NES Member
Best thing you can do is check your condo association rules. I live in a condo community but the rules never stated anything about firearms. They are more concerned with making sure the outside of the condo follows suit with the rest of the community.
check for the clause that says the condo association can amend the rules at any time. What you get now may not be what you'll have in the future.
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True, but that's mainly to prevent people from pulling the "get an owner rate and terms on investment property". The ba nk is unlikely to come after you if you keep the payments, taxes and insurance paid up. Condos, on the other hand, can have busy bodies who fancy themselves as rulers who can make life very difficult. If you owe someone $$, and they want a lien on your house they have to file for it (unless they are the mortgage holders). Condo associations are different here - they automatically have a super lien and, unlike the normal lien, the seller must obtain proof from the condo that no fees are owed as part of a sale. In other words, if the association assesses a fee or fine, they will collect sooner or later.
RFWAVELENGTH
Banned
That has been my experience as well. Proper upkeep preserves the resale value of the property. My girlfriend and I both own condos and there is no prohibitions on the possession of guns. I do not think the condo boards could legally do so anyways, because the SCOTUS decision in the Heller case affirmed the right of law-abiding citizens to keep firearms in their homes.
1. NO; it affirmed the right of citizens of DC to keep functioning firearms in their homes. It has NOT been incorporated and, therefore, does not apply to the states.
2. Even if it WERE, a condo is NOT a government. Ergo, there is NO state action and, thus, no Constitutional violation. One might argue some sort of public policy issue, but without state action, you have no clear Constitutional violation.
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As a practical matter, the issue is "default state" - which, in the case of a dispute with a condo over fines is "condo association wins". When a condo association issues a fine it's a lien on your property until and unless you take the necessary steps, at your expense, to obtain a court order declaring the debt invalid. It's considerably more complicated, and expensive, than simply invoking the Heller mantra.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
You would be wrong - there have been threads here before about just such busybody rules as no gun ownership.
To the OP - search out previous threads on condos. You'll find that many folks here have run afoul of condo assoc rules. Two of our members (Mrs Magnum and Mikey (they're married)) have taken what I consider to be a very wise precaution: they're BOTH on their condo association board!! Thus no such draconian rules can be imposed without their knowing about it and putting up a huge fight.
You've been given some wise information here about reading the docs beforehand. Not ever having considered condo ownership, I wonder if it might not be a good idea to try and meet some of the current residents, and perhaps some of the condo board, BEFORE signing your life away.
If I can offer another bit of Condo advice. My company works with a lot of Associations and property managers. We do studies designs and oversight on alot of their projects. I would STRONGLY recommend you request a copy of the latest Reserve Study as this will give you an indication of whether the property is properly funded or if they will be knocking at your door 6 months after you move in with a $10,000 assessment to replace the roofs on a few buildings. Just a buyer beware bit of advice. Condos can be great, but even if the "low condo fee" is inticing make sure to ask about the reserve account to make sure they have enough money saved up to cover the upcoming expenses without hitting the property with special assessment. Good Luck.
Scrivener, since it was a SCOTUS ruling, could that be cited on a motion or appeal?
Titan
Banned
In a condo, aren't your gun rights only secure until a future condo board meeting?
Even if guns are allowed when you buy, I would think you could lose the ability to keep them if a future vote says they're no longer allowed.
Even if guns are allowed when you buy, I would think you could lose the ability to keep them if a future vote says they're no longer allowed.
Titan
Banned
I have to believe that 'incorporation' is only a formality with respect to the 2nd Amendment.
I can't imagine anyone successfully arguing that there is an individual right to keep and bear arms only in Washington, D.C.
Common sense has to come into play at some point.
The question isn't "could it be cited?" The question is, "What does it say?"
Heller does not say that two or more parties jointly owning real property are barred from agreeing that none of them will possess firearms on the property, or that such a contract will not be enforced. This simply has nothing to do with the Second Amendment, however else interpreted.
Titan
Banned
Don't federal and/or state laws already ban guns in peoples' homes if the 'home' is an assisted living apartment or a unit in public housing?
OR are these prohibitions accomplished by requiring applicants to 'accept the terms' of the housing contract?
EDIT: change 'forcing' in last line to 'requiring'
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Titan
Banned
Are you saying 'don't ask, don't tell' because you fear that if it was known, you COULD lose your guns?
If so, it's not much of a joke. I'd fear being 'discovered' some day by a super or someone. Perhaps a neighbor or friend you invited in would 'rat you out'.
Not for me!
I'm aggravated enough that if I ever need assisted living or a nursing home, I would almost certainly lose my rights. There are an awful lot of seniors who are no longer 100% in every physical way, but still have the wherewithall (and the need) to defend themselves effectively.
No, I am saying is that its nobody's business to know what you do in your own home that you pay for. I might be out of line here I'm not sure.
Titan
Banned
Not out of line. I was just clarifying what you meant. For me, the risk of discovery would be too great to take the risk, if I didn't already own a condo.
I'd avoid one, if at all possible. I even think that you might have better chances of keeping them if you lived in an apartment, where no condo rules apply.
I would think (and a lawyer will straighten me out, if wrong) that a peson with an LTC would be allowed to retain their rights in an apartment unless a prohibition was made clear before they rented.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
IANAL, but you are correct. It was also briefly discussed in this thread :
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php/73731-CCW-on-your-property-when-renting?
RFWAVELENGTH
Banned
The members of the Association would be cutting their own throats by doing this. At my girlfriend's condo complex, during the annual owners' meeting, the topic about banning pets came up. Apparently, some idiots refused to pick up after their animals and some areas were littered with poop. She owns a cat and "Pearl" never caused any problems. She pointed this out, along with the fact that such a ban would reduce the marketability of the units. The more bans in place, the less marketability. A gun ban would prevent hunters, target shooters, collectors, police officers, armed security guards (with or without Special Police Officer arrest powers) and single women who own guns for self-defense from purchasing a unit in such a complex.
